The LeBron James Thread

[King_B_Mack]

Re: The LeBron James Thread

You didn't, I assumed it was implied when you said LeBron's defense was overrated and that since he can only do what those guys do for a two to five minute span he shouldn't be considered for defensive player of the year.

And again, when did I say or imply that he shouldn't be considered for DPOY? See the problem with assuming? I've said again and again and again and again some more that LeBron is one of the best defensive players in the league. However I have a problem with this sudden off the wall notion that LeBron is such a better defender than everybody else in the league that he should win DPOY every year. As long as I've been on OS I can't remember a single point in time where there's been this backlash for dude not winning the award and now all of a sudden people are going crazy because he didn't win. First of all the whole year nobody has said anything about LeBron winning the thing, it was a pretty much a lock around here and elsewhere that Larry Sanders was DPOY. The award announcement comes out, Gasol wins and suddenly people are pissed that LeBron didn't win it cause he's light years ahead of everybody else on defense all of a sudden. If that isn't a vast overrating of somebody's skills then I don't know what is. Being overrated doesn't mean you suck or you're average or anything like that, it just means you're rated higher than you should be.

[ojandpizza]

And again, when did I say or imply that he shouldn't be considered for DPOY? See the problem with assuming? I've said again and again and again and again some more that LeBron is one of the best defensive players in the league. However I have a problem with this sudden off the wall notion that LeBron is such a better defender than everybody else in the league that he should win DPOY every year. As long as I've been on OS I can't remember a single point in time where there's been this backlash for dude not winning the award and now all of a sudden people are going crazy because he didn't win. First of all the whole year nobody has said anything about LeBron winning the thing, it was a pretty much a lock around here and elsewhere that Larry Sanders was DPOY. The award announcement comes out, Gasol wins and suddenly people are pissed that LeBron didn't win it cause he's light years ahead of everybody else on defense all of a sudden. If that isn't a vast overrating of somebody's skills then I don't know what is. Being overrated doesn't mean you suck or you're average or anything like that, it just means you're rated higher than you should be.

I wanted Sanders to get it.. But I think people's rant towards LeBron not getting it is due to the fact that it was Gasol who got it..

Had it gone to someone who blocks the shots, stops plays at the rim, and grabs all the defensive boards, like Ibaka, Sanders, Tyson, I don't think it would have been an issue..

But it didn't, it went to the guy who slides over and fills driving lanes, hedges the high picks, covers the weak side, blocks passing lanes and whatever else Gasol does that's so impressive lol...

I think the way most people view that is "then why the hell can't LeBron win it?" Because while LeBron isn't Allen or Iggy as an on ball defensive stud, Gasol isn't the Ibaka or Sanders of the inside defensive stud.. If Gasol wins on that criteria why isn't LeBron winning, when he also plays the passing lanes, hedges screens, switches to guard any position, and even takes on other teams best scorers.. Also blocks more shots than the average SF and gets more steals than them as well...

Idk, me personally I didn't have a problem with LeBron not winning the award, or really with Gasol even winning the award.. But I can easily see why people would feel that if Gasol can win it the way he plays that LeBron should win the way he does.

[BlueNGold]

Re: The LeBron James Thread

im only answering this post because i missed it and it ask me a direct question.

i was never using vegas in my post. i didnt even know that information. i had stated that i was using the national media analyst who were picking the team lebron was on to get to the finals.

as far as what makes a legend, thats not what im taking into consideration. to me lebron has everything that it takes to be a legend of some level. i mean that much is crystal clear.

but there are levels within levels to everything and b4 i place lebron in the most inner of inner circles imo he's gonna have to win a few more championships. and 4 no other reason than because the players at the inner most level of greatness that we are talking about here, they all have them. 3-4 of them. you never heard me 1x ever say that lebron had to get 6 or even 5. but he has to atleast get 3-4 then we take his other accomplishments into account and submit his application for the throne. but until he gets 3-4 im not even considering his application. (in my own mind)

ok, im done i just didnt see this post b4 i said i was done posting. and he asked me a direct question.

So now there are "levels within levels" of being legendary? See, once again, another roadblock thrown LeBron's way.

I don't understand why we can't just let things unfold and judge when everything is all (or nearly) said and done when it comes to the guy's career. He's at the peak of his basketball-playing powers right now. Let's see what happens these next 5 years or so and then attempt to determine his place among the greats from there.

And it's not out of the realm of possibility for LeBron and the Heat to win multiple titles in a row this decade. As tired and annoying as any Jordan comparisons are, people seem to forget that he didn't win his first title until he was like 27 or 28, and then he went on to reel off 3 straight, retired, and then copped another 3 rings. With all these players suffering serious ACL injuries and teams like Boston, San Antonio, and LA aging and being on the verge of rebuilding, the window is open for Miami to pull this off.

I just still find it funny that LeBron gets held to a completely different standard than any other player (and arguably athlete).

Steve Nash is an all-time great PG but he doesn't have a championship. Why aren't we asking why he can't "win the big one"? Why isn't this same question asked about Carmelo Anthony or Dwight Howard? We seem to be okay appreciating those player's games (let's just exclude '12-13 Dwight Howard) without questioning every little thing about them, yet when it comes to LeBron, it seems like it almost always has to be a focus on any of his shortcomings.

And one last thing: it's going to be very interesting, at least to me, how these playoffs turn out for Oklahoma City and what the reaction will be (assuming they don't win the title).

Why is that? Because Kevin Durant finally gets to experience what LeBron went through the first 7 years of his career, which is having to carry a team on his shoulders without having very much help. No Westbrook, no Harden....now KD has to be his team's offense the entire game. This is something LeBron did his entire tenure in Cleveland. If Kevin Durant comes up short under those circumstances, the same way LeBron did, what's the reaction going to be? "Good job, good effort" or "You're one of the best players in the league and should go down as a hall of famer; why aren't leading your team to a championship?".

[ClutchCity]

Re: The LeBron James Thread

The championship argument is stupid. So what happens when LBJ wins his 6th ring?


That's exactly how it should be if championships are the basis for greatness. Russell=GOAT.


There's nothing overrated about LBJ's game.

That Bill Russell excuse has been used time and time again. It's just a fact that covers up the reason why LeBron couldn't bring Cleveland a championship without switching teams. Who cares about his MVPs so what I want to see not 1 not 2 not 3 etc...... Until then he shouldnt come up in a conversation about winning multiple titles , next to the great Bill Russell or Micheal Jordan. He's a great player yeah the world knows that, but I want to see 3 years from now where will he be.

[ojandpizza]

That Bill Russell excuse has been used time and time again. It's just a fact that covers up the reason why LeBron couldn't bring Cleveland a championship without switching teams. Who cares about his MVPs so what I want to see not 1 not 2 not 3 etc...... Until then he shouldnt come up in a conversation about winning multiple titles , next to the great Bill Russell or Micheal Jordan. He's a great player yeah the world knows that, but I want to see 3 years from now where will he be.

3 years from now he'll still be the best player in the league regardless of championships won.. That's where he'll be.

[BringTheHeat]

Re: The LeBron James Thread

I just still find it funny that LeBron gets held to a completely different standard than any other player (and arguably athlete).

Steve Nash is an all-time great PG but he doesn't have a championship. Why aren't we asking why he can't "win the big one"? Why isn't this same question asked about Carmelo Anthony or Dwight Howard? We seem to be okay appreciating those player's games (let's just exclude '12-13 Dwight Howard) without questioning every little thing about them, yet when it comes to LeBron, it seems like it almost always has to be a focus on any of his shortcomings.

And one last thing: it's going to be very interesting, at least to me, how these playoffs turn out for Oklahoma City and what the reaction will be (assuming they don't win the title).

Why is that? Because Kevin Durant finally gets to experience what LeBron went through the first 7 years of his career, which is having to carry a team on his shoulders without having very much help. No Westbrook, no Harden....now KD has to be his team's offense the entire game. This is something LeBron did his entire tenure in Cleveland. If Kevin Durant comes up short under those circumstances, the same way LeBron did, what's the reaction going to be? "Good job, good effort" or "You're one of the best players in the league and should go down as a hall of famer; why aren't leading your team to a championship?".

Fear. Fear that LeBron just might go down as the GOAT. None of those other guys have that potential, not even Durant, that "he's still young" bs is getting old. When LeBron was 24 he was much better than Durant is, yet for some reason people still give KD the pass on everything. It gets tiring especially to me living in OK. KD can't come anywhere near accomplishing what LeBron did in Cleveland, plain and simple.

[23]

Not sure who fears LeBron becoming a goat lol. He has alot of work ahead of him to trump the reputation Michael Jordan has but if he does or gets close it will be very exciting.

Like I said though I'm tired of the comparisons stuff and BnG is right. ..these lame criticisms are getting extremely old

Galaxy Note 2

[jeebs9]

That's what I been saying 23. It's too old. This thread just keeps repeating itself.

The only thing I've learned from this thread is that people will kick you when your down or up.

Sent from my DROID X2 using Tapatalk 2

[RedSceptile]

Re: The LeBron James Thread

I won't lie if LeBron (or any player for that matter) carves a legend/legacy greater than Michael Jordan it'll be pretty soon. Like I know it's going to happen just don't know when.

[TajDeni]

Re: The LeBron James Thread

back from the watching the fight,

like i said previously, i have absolutely no agenda against lebron. this is what happens. i click on a thread, if i havent been in it in a while i click maybe 5-10 pages back to see what has been said in the thread lately.

its is alot of you guys who wont let lebrons career play out. its is some of you guys always saying that lebron is already in this guys class or that guys class. or lebron is already better than this player or that player.

my entire premise about lebron from the jump has been let lebron earn his stripes. has it not?

but no some of you guys are the one who are always starting these lebron comparisons, indirectly by the statements some of yall make.

i have zero problem with letting lebrons career unfold, how about some of you guys take your own advice and let his career unfold.

but thats the problem guys dont follow there own advice about letting lebrons career unfold.

so in the end all i was really doing was asking for some clarifications on the exact criteria that was being used to make certain statements. cause it seems to me atleast folks wanna switch the criteria up alil bit in bron bron case.

but im confused now because i thought you guys didnt want to have this convo about lebron. cause if you want to im game. or should we all just go about letting things unfold themselves? cause im all for that as well.

dont click if you dont wanna know the results of the fight

Spoiler

easy money

[BDKiiing]

Re: The LeBron James Thread

That Bill Russell excuse has been used time and time again. It's just a fact that covers up the reason why LeBron couldn't bring Cleveland a championship without switching teams. Who cares about his MVPs so what I want to see not 1 not 2 not 3 etc...... Until then he shouldnt come up in a conversation about winning multiple titles , next to the great Bill Russell or Micheal Jordan. He's a great player yeah the world knows that, but I want to see 3 years from now where will he be.

It's not an excuse by any means. People say Mike is so much better than LeBron because he has the 5 rings, well then Bill Russell is twice as good as Mike. End of story.

[23]

Re: The LeBron James Thread

That's what I been saying 23. It's too old. This thread just keeps repeating itself.

The only thing I've learned from this thread is that people will kick you when your down or up.

Sent from my DROID X2 using Tapatalk 2

....but again, this thread exists because everything you see repeated would be one thread after another if it wasnt here

Catch 22

[Sportsforever]

Re: The LeBron James Thread

You know what, I used to wonder if LeBron could be better than MJ...now, I really don't care. You can argue all day long if he is/isn't/will be/won't be, but the fact is he's amazing to watch and I'm enjoying watching him play almost as much as I did MJ. I'm glad I get to see him play...and in 15 years a bunch of dudes are going to be on a message board wondering if some 22 year old will ever be better than LeBron.

[ojandpizza]

alot of you guys who wont let lebrons career play out. its is some of you guys always saying that lebron is already in this guys class or that guys class. or lebron is already better than this player or that player.

my entire premise about lebron from the jump has been let lebron earn his stripes. has it not?

but no some of you guys are the one who are always starting these lebron comparisons, indirectly by the statements some of yall make.

i have zero problem with letting lebrons career unfold, how about some of you guys take your own advice and let his career unfold.

but thats the problem guys dont follow there own advice about letting lebrons career unfold.

so in the end all i was really doing was asking for some clarifications on the exact criteria that was being used to make certain statements. cause it seems to me atleast folks wanna switch the criteria up alil bit in bron bron case.
]

I am letting his career unfold..I didn't even put him in my top 10 all time list in the other threads for that very reason..

My criteria for every player is the same..
With that said, I can clearly see, from what LeBron has already done, which players he is better than. I don't need to see him "earn his stripes" to say he's a better player than Robert Horry ever was.. I don't need to see him win 5 rings for me to say that I think prime LeBron is a better player than a prime Kobe..

I'm not basing my judgment on hall of fame like criteria.. If you would have asked me in 1991 who the greatest player of all time was I would have said Michael Jordan.. Even though he only had 1 ring.

What exactly do I need to see play out in his career for me evaluate? He's already been the best basketball player I've witnessed since Jordan retired.. All he's going to do from this point on is add to his resume..

He's an NBA champion, a 4 time MVP, a 1 time finals MVP, a 2 time All Star game MVP, rookie of the year winner, 9 time all star, 1 time scoring champ, he's made 8 All-NBA teams, 4 All Defensive teams (about to be 9&5), he will have twice as many MVPs as Jordan did at 28, he has as many as Kobe, Shaq, Iverson, and Dirk combined, this will be the 6th year in a row he's led the league in PER. He's a 2 time gold medalist and the only team USA player to ever record a triple double.

And he's arguably just hitting his prime.. What more do you need to see? He's accomplished more that what most people accomplish their entire career. How is than NOT enough for us to put him in a category with the all time greats?? You think he needs more "stripes" most of us think he's already a zebra.


Just for good measure..
Have you watched him just this season alone?? - he's the only player to EVER average at least 26,8,7 and shoot 55%, the only player to EVER go on a 6 game streak of 30ppg on 60% shooting, the only player to EVER average at least 25pts and 7assists while shooting better than 40% from three. He became the youngest player to ever score 20,000 points, and one of only 13 players to record 20,000 points and 5,000 assists. He leads his team in points, rebounds, assists, and FG%. He was 4th in scoring this year, 10th in assists (highest non PG), 21st in rebounds (top SF), 5th in FG% (highest non center), league leader in PER, 12th in steals..

He just came off an amazing year last year, an insanely good playoff run, and became only the second player to win league MVP, finals MVP, and a gold medal in the same year.

And you don't think he's done ENOUGH to be put in the same category as the other greats? He's already went above and beyond what half the players on the 50greatest list accomplished in their entire careers!!

[BlueNGold]

Re: The LeBron James Thread

This is coming from a huge LeBron James fan (who also never seen Michael Jordan play): LeBron James is never surpassing Michael Jordan.

I'm sorry, but it's just not happening. Maybe in some statistical categories he will, or maybe in number of championship rings he will, but he's never surpassing the impact Michael Jordan had.

I don't exactly know how to properly put this into words, but just think of how everything about Jordan is basically immortalized. The shoes, the number, the dunks, the jumper, the fadeaway, the buzzer beaters, the storybook performances, etc.

Chances are he'll be statistically greater, but LeBron is never going to be that. And in the meantime, it'd be nice if we could sit back and watch this unfold rather than try to rush to conclusions on the guy's career.