The LeBron James Thread

[JODYE]

Re: The LeBron James Thread

I give you Wade's knees but is Skip also not watching basketball at all?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D4qi-pEEpLA

Stopped reading after you cited Skip Bayless to assist in making your argument.

[wwharton]

Re: The LeBron James Thread

Isn't LeBron's WAR stat something ridiculous? I thought I saw a stat saying he was 20 points ahead of the next guy in line lol. I assumed it was Durant.

Also, Bosh easily had his worst defensive season in the big 3 era. And while he didn't "under perform" throughout most of the season he definitely did during the finals. He was out rebounded by Birdman who played 20 minutes less than him (Bosh 5.2 rebounds in 36 minutes per), Rashard Lewis blocked more shots than he did. All stats under his season average despite playing more minutes.

And I mean this in no disrespect to those guys in San Antonio, but when you're supposed to be a super star and you're matched up with Splitter, Duncan (37), Baynes, Bonner, you just have to be much better than that. If the finals is not a time to step up then when is? Duncan topped Bosh in all major statistical categories despite playing less minutes. Both as 3rd options. All credit to Duncan but you just can't let that happen when the man is 37.

Seems like everyone always wants to give Bosh a pass and praise the things he does do well, which he's definitely deserving of. But he gets outplayed in nearly every playoff series.


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I don't think this is a fair assessment though... at least an incomplete one. The Spurs offense ran through Duncan (when allowed to do so), and put him in position to score close to the basket or pass out of double teams and to cutters. The Heat offense made Bosh basically a SF, finding open space for jumpers or creating his own shot off the dribble from the wing. Not only does this drastically reduce his offensive rebound chances but his touches as well. They went a game where I believe he only got 4 shots... and he went 4 for 4.

The reason I defend Bosh is because he's had to sacrifice his game more than just about any star I've seen and he's done a damn good job at it. Even talking about a drop in his defense when he rarely got to play PF, instead playing C which he shouldn't be. I don't think you can rattle off names of who he was facing individually to show how he did poorly (or well, for that matter).

[Halloween]

Re: The LeBron James Thread

Stopped reading after you cited Skip Bayless to assist in making your argument.

1. Then you miss out on a lot of basketball knowledge.
2. You read the whole thing, I guarantee it.

[JODYE]

Re: The LeBron James Thread

1. Then you miss out on a lot of basketball knowledge.
2. You read the whole thing, I guarantee it.

[BigBoi23]

Re: The LeBron James Thread

1. Then you miss out on a lot of basketball knowledge.
2. You read the whole thing, I guarantee it.

You've got to be kidding.

[MattUM]

Re: The LeBron James Thread

Trusting this dudes word on anything basketball related

http://deadspin.com/5900305/report-basketball-hero-skip-bayless-actually-averaged-14-points-per-game-as-a-high-school-senior

[ojandpizza]

The LeBron James Thread

I don't think this is a fair assessment though... at least an incomplete one. The Spurs offense ran through Duncan (when allowed to do so), and put him in position to score close to the basket or pass out of double teams and to cutters. The Heat offense made Bosh basically a SF, finding open space for jumpers or creating his own shot off the dribble from the wing. Not only does this drastically reduce his offensive rebound chances but his touches as well. They went a game where I believe he only got 4 shots... and he went 4 for 4.



The reason I defend Bosh is because he's had to sacrifice his game more than just about any star I've seen and he's done a damn good job at it. Even talking about a drop in his defense when he rarely got to play PF, instead playing C which he shouldn't be. I don't think you can rattle off names of who he was facing individually to show how he did poorly (or well, for that matter).

I completely understand that, but how much of that is on Bosh? Even with becoming more of a spot up option it's on him to not just stand there every offensive set. He's a smart enough player to understand when to cut, when to move, when to crash boards, when to set a screen, when to go post, when to drive, etc.. He just chooses not to. Usually when you give great players more room to "freelance" they go and make plays. Bosh is pretty much the opposite of that, he's a horrible freelance player. He picks a spot on the perimeter and never moves, he's stationary. Even great shooters move to get open, even stretch big men cut backdoor when it's open.

I see guys like Birdman, Haslem, have games where they score 10 points in about 12 minutes. LeBron and Wade are among the best playmakers in the league, and those guys have zero plays drawn for them. All it takes is the occasional cut, or moving to an open spot. Bosh doesn't want to do that.

Playing away from the basket definitely does limit his ability to get offensive boards, but it's tiresome to watch the tallest guy on the court refuse to crash the glass. Ray Allen grabbed more offensive rebounds in the series than Bosh did. And he still doesn't rebound defensively either. One more rebound than Birdman despite playing 91 more minutes, that's nearly two entire games worth of minutes for just 1 more rebound? Kawhi, Duncan, Diaw all with more defensive boards than Bosh, all of them played less minutes.

Maybe I'm far too harsh on him, I just get annoyed watching a guy who has a ridiculous amount of talent and skill but doesn't have the hustle or drive to put himself in successful positions. I want to call it lazy, but I feel that's an extreme. It's just frustrating to watch someone of his caliber, with his IQ, not realize that "I can do this better", "I can do that better" and help his team win. It's like he's content with sacrificing and being that 3rd option, but he doesn't want to enable himself to be any better than that.

Honestly, I think after that first ring Bosh sorta lost the "drive" and desire he needed to put himself in position to be a great player. Even with his spot up game he could be every bit of what Rasheed Wallace was for Detroit IMO, I think he's even more skilled.. But he chooses not to. I'll give some of the blame to Spo and their game plan, but a lot of it falls on Bosh. He just didn't look motivated, and if the finals doesn't motivate you I don't know what could.


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[lilteapot]

Re: The LeBron James Thread

You realize the Cavs play in the East right?

The goal is to win a title not just get to the finals.and in 3-4 years LeBron will be in the tail end of his prime

[ProfessaPackMan]

Re: The LeBron James Thread

OJ I'll say you tend to make quite a few reaches everytime you talk about Bosh, that I have noticed.

[JODYE]

Re: The LeBron James Thread

The goal is to win a title not just get to the finals.and in 3-4 years LeBron will be in the tail end of his prime

If he goes to Miami with the marginal moves they have made, assuming both Wade and Bosh eat up their expected cap space, he isn't winning the title there either and the future is a lot bleaker in Miami then it would be in Cleveland.

[x Stinkfist x]

Re: The LeBron James Thread

You really do learn a lot reading people's posts, and what I've learned is alotta people don't know the game, at all....

[ojandpizza]

Re: The LeBron James Thread

OJ I'll say you tend to make quite a few reaches everytime you talk about Bosh, that I have noticed.

It's just because I expect more from him. I understand all the strengths he brings to the team, and that a lot of his production is do to the system they are in. But for what he does they could have gotten for a lot less money, and then used that to fix their issues which include needing a rebounder, and someone to make plays when Wade isn't in the game.

I think I tend to underrate Bosh a lot, but know in the back of my head how good he really is. I just annoys me to see a superstar caliber guy completely abandon the rest of his game just because he altered it some. He could have become that kick out option while still retaining pieces of what made him good enough to earn that 19mil and the label "big 3". I really feel that once they finally won he was just content. I'm sure going through everything that group has been through was tiresome.


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[jeebs9]

Re: The LeBron James Thread

When someone say Bosh was under preforming... I have to laugh.

[wwharton]

Re: The LeBron James Thread

You've got to be kidding.

It was funny... doubt he was being serious.

And I'm positive 13 read the whole thing too, lol.

I completely understand that, but how much of that is on Bosh? Even with becoming more of a spot up option it's on him to not just stand there every offensive set. He's a smart enough player to understand when to cut, when to move, when to crash boards, when to set a screen, when to go post, when to drive, etc.. He just chooses not to. Usually when you give great players more room to "freelance" they go and make plays. Bosh is pretty much the opposite of that, he's a horrible freelance player. He picks a spot on the perimeter and never moves, he's stationary. Even great shooters move to get open, even stretch big men cut backdoor when it's open.

I see guys like Birdman, Haslem, have games where they score 10 points in about 12 minutes. LeBron and Wade are among the best playmakers in the league, and those guys have zero plays drawn for them. All it takes is the occasional cut, or moving to an open spot. Bosh doesn't want to do that.

Playing away from the basket definitely does limit his ability to get offensive boards, but it's tiresome to watch the tallest guy on the court refuse to crash the glass. Ray Allen grabbed more offensive rebounds in the series than Bosh did. And he still doesn't rebound defensively either. One more rebound than Birdman despite playing 91 more minutes, that's nearly two entire games worth of minutes for just 1 more rebound? Kawhi, Duncan, Diaw all with more defensive boards than Bosh, all of them played less minutes.

Maybe I'm far too harsh on him, I just get annoyed watching a guy who has a ridiculous amount of talent and skill but doesn't have the hustle or drive to put himself in successful positions. I want to call it lazy, but I feel that's an extreme. It's just frustrating to watch someone of his caliber, with his IQ, not realize that "I can do this better", "I can do that better" and help his team win. It's like he's content with sacrificing and being that 3rd option, but he doesn't want to enable himself to be any better than that.

Honestly, I think after that first ring Bosh sorta lost the "drive" and desire he needed to put himself in position to be a great player. Even with his spot up game he could be every bit of what Rasheed Wallace was for Detroit IMO, I think he's even more skilled.. But he chooses not to. I'll give some of the blame to Spo and their game plan, but a lot of it falls on Bosh. He just didn't look motivated, and if the finals doesn't motivate you I don't know what could.


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Of course Bosh can get some blame, but the man completely revamped his game to make it work in their stupid system... and you're upset that he didn't do more.

You talk about what Birdman and Haslem do, but that's what they've always done. They've had to scrape every drop of relevant talent in their bodies to be on the NBA radar, found avenues that work and have run with them. Bosh, naturally talented, had an offense run through him and a team built around him. He's adjusting to his current role and if we look over the years, he's done well. Meanwhile he averaged 17 and 7 if I'm not mistaken... as the 3rd fiddle, only picking spots and not getting "enough" offensive rebounds.

If anything, I'd say Bosh's "drive" may have wavered because he's still taking so much crap considering the huge role he's played on the team defensively, playing out of position, being forced into a spot up shooter, etc. I've said from day one that team would be better spending a lot more time going through Bosh on the post in the half court offense. But when you go to 4 straight finals and win 2, it's kind of hard to complain all that much.

[wwharton]

Re: The LeBron James Thread

It's just because I expect more from him. I understand all the strengths he brings to the team, and that a lot of his production is do to the system they are in. But for what he does they could have gotten for a lot less money, and then used that to fix their issues which include needing a rebounder, and someone to make plays when Wade isn't in the game.

I think I tend to underrate Bosh a lot, but know in the back of my head how good he really is. I just annoys me to see a superstar caliber guy completely abandon the rest of his game just because he altered it some. He could have become that kick out option while still retaining pieces of what made him good enough to earn that 19mil and the label "big 3". I really feel that once they finally won he was just content. I'm sure going through everything that group has been through was tiresome.


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That's on the management/coaching though, not Bosh. This is also why any 3 great players don't necessarily belong together... and why coaches like Riley and Jackson deserve the credit they get for making stars work together as well as they have.