Exactly when has a player won a chip "on their own"?

[dexvex]

Re: Exactly when has a player won a chip "on their own"?

I still don't understand the he's gonna "ruin his legacy talk"

Like I said earlier this is really the first time we are gonna see what lebron is really about(not counting olympics because its not the same as the nba season). Everything you all are saying about what he wants to be is just speculation up to this point. By going to the heat and forming this big three we are about to see whether lbj will show his supposed dominance behind the scenes(practice,training camp) and take over the leader role ala mj, We're gonna see whether he will defer to dwade and play the pippen role. Maybe we'll see if he plays magic and defers to his teammates while still being the leader. The point is we don't know yet because this barely has started to play out yet. All this "ruin his legacy" talk is speculation right now and I really don't understand why people are presenting their opinion of how this will play out as fact.......

[wwharton]

Re: Exactly when has a player won a chip "on their own"?

I still don't understand the he's gonna "ruin his legacy talk"

Like I said earlier this is really the first time we are gonna see what lebron is really about(not counting olympics because its not the same as the nba season). Everything you all are saying about what he wants to be is just speculation up to this point. By going to the heat and forming this big three we are about to see whether lbj will show his supposed dominance behind the scenes(practice,training camp) and take over the leader role ala mj, We're gonna see whether he will defer to dwade and play the pippen role. Maybe we'll see if he plays magic and defers to his teammates while still being the leader. The point is we don't know yet because this barely has started to play out yet. All this "ruin his legacy" talk is speculation right now and I really don't understand why people are presenting their opinion of how this will play out as fact.......

Why is this the first time we're going to see what Lebron is about? We've watched him for the last 7 years in the NBA. I think what he was building on up until the "decision" is what he was about. What we're about to see now is something different.

Here's the thing, Lebron may retire as a HOFer, 5 time NBA champion, leading scorer in the NBA, etc. I think many have this impression that he can't go onto have an amazing career if his legacy has been ruined. That's far from the truth. I have little doubt that the rest of his career will be very successful... and in doing so, his legacy as a member of the Heat will be a great one.

Going back to what we already know, he has been presented as being on pace to be one of the greatest players ever, and his path to get there included bringing championships by putting a team on his back... even better if that was Cleveland. For all the self love, King hype, chosen one, etc. he was still the 2 time MVP on a team that lead the league in wins for the last 2 years in a row. It's safe to say they insanely high expectations for the kid were still very much a possibility. He slammed the door on that chapter, and despite all the people trying hard to convince the world he was playing with a bunch of kids from the rec, many believe the chapter was closed prematurely.

So on one hand you have this premature ending to a seemingly impossible situation that LBJ appeared to be on the verge of making a reality. Then you add that the ending for this original story would likely have him sitting at a much higher place in the history books than anything he may do with the Heat. I'd say those are the reasons people talk about him "ruining" his legacy or "giving up".

You're right that there is a lot to look forward to, evaluate, carve his place out in history. It just seems like he threw in the towel to get there AND that no matter what, his new legacy can't match the potential of the old one.

Sorry for the book, but I'm trying to make this clear for all the people wondering. Speaking for most, I don't think it's a hatred of Lebron or a thought that he's doomed to fail now... or that he's a complete fraud even if he helps Miami win titles. He'll never be looked at in the same way but basically he went from walking on water to a very, very talented and famous human being. Not exactly a huge fall from grace.

[Jukeman]

Re: Exactly when has a player won a chip "on their own"?

No the point is; everyone is trying to make it as if LBJ wanted to be the "Alpha dog" of modern sports and now his "legacy" is in danger because he wont live up to the hype of MJ because he teamed up with two allstars

And it does matter because earlier in this thread people were using "he was wearing #23" just like they are trying to use the tatt excuse..

Ahh... another that tells us the point we are making even if we say otherwise. All of your posts to PPM, Pared and myself and not once do I remember any of us coming close to insinuating anything you said just now.

Not sure how that's relevant to him buying into hype. Your last post was out of left field for the discussion we've just been having.

My post there didn't have anything to do with the hype around him either, but lets assume your LAST post was in response to that one. I still never said he wanted to be the Alpha dog of the modern sports era or that his legacy is in danger bc he no longer can be compared to Jordan. I have said that he shouldn't be acting like "King James" anymore and time will tell if that changes... and that his ceiling on his career has been lowered by the move. I'm summarizing again, like I did in that post bc I've said the same thing over and over. Either people aren't reading every post or are ignoring certain parts to push their opinions. I'm not putting either one of those on you but it does seem like you're arguing against things we aren't saying OR acting like he never bought into any of the hype.

he already made a decision that's dropped him down in the NBA pecking order. Thats all people are saying.

Im talking about that

[Jukeman]

Re: Exactly when has a player won a chip "on their own"?

Why is this the first time we're going to see what Lebron is about? We've watched him for the last 7 years in the NBA. I think what he was building on up until the "decision" is what he was about. What we're about to see now is something different.

Here's the thing, Lebron may retire as a HOFer, 5 time NBA champion, leading scorer in the NBA, etc. I think many have this impression that he can't go onto have an amazing career if his legacy has been ruined. That's far from the truth. I have little doubt that the rest of his career will be very successful... and in doing so, his legacy as a member of the Heat will be a great one.

Going back to what we already know, he has been presented as being on pace to be one of the greatest players ever, and his path to get there included bringing championships by putting a team on his back... even better if that was Cleveland. For all the self love, King hype, chosen one, etc. he was still the 2 time MVP on a team that lead the league in wins for the last 2 years in a row. It's safe to say they insanely high expectations for the kid were still very much a possibility. He slammed the door on that chapter, and despite all the people trying hard to convince the world he was playing with a bunch of kids from the rec, many believe the chapter was closed prematurely.

So on one hand you have this premature ending to a seemingly impossible situation that LBJ appeared to be on the verge of making a reality. Then you add that the ending for this original story would likely have him sitting at a much higher place in the history books than anything he may do with the Heat. I'd say those are the reasons people talk about him "ruining" his legacy or "giving up".

You're right that there is a lot to look forward to, evaluate, carve his place out in history. It just seems like he threw in the towel to get there AND that no matter what, his new legacy can't match the potential of the old one.

Sorry for the book, but I'm trying to make this clear for all the people wondering. Speaking for most, I don't think it's a hatred of Lebron or a thought that he's doomed to fail now... or that he's a complete fraud even if he helps Miami win titles. He'll never be looked at in the same way but basically he went from walking on water to a very, very talented and famous human being. Not exactly a huge fall from grace.

Ok well this explains alot

Guess people were just naive as me

[jeebs9]

Re: Exactly when has a player won a chip "on their own"?

Why is this the first time we're going to see what Lebron is about? We've watched him for the last 7 years in the NBA. I think what he was building on up until the "decision" is what he was about. What we're about to see now is something different.

Here's the thing, Lebron may retire as a HOFer, 5 time NBA champion, leading scorer in the NBA, etc. I think many have this impression that he can't go onto have an amazing career if his legacy has been ruined. That's far from the truth. I have little doubt that the rest of his career will be very successful... and in doing so, his legacy as a member of the Heat will be a great one.

Going back to what we already know, he has been presented as being on pace to be one of the greatest players ever, and his path to get there included bringing championships by putting a team on his back... even better if that was Cleveland. For all the self love, King hype, chosen one, etc. he was still the 2 time MVP on a team that lead the league in wins for the last 2 years in a row. It's safe to say they insanely high expectations for the kid were still very much a possibility. He slammed the door on that chapter, and despite all the people trying hard to convince the world he was playing with a bunch of kids from the rec, many believe the chapter was closed prematurely.

So on one hand you have this premature ending to a seemingly impossible situation that LBJ appeared to be on the verge of making a reality. Then you add that the ending for this original story would likely have him sitting at a much higher place in the history books than anything he may do with the Heat. I'd say those are the reasons people talk about him "ruining" his legacy or "giving up".

You're right that there is a lot to look forward to, evaluate, carve his place out in history. It just seems like he threw in the towel to get there AND that no matter what, his new legacy can't match the potential of the old one.

Sorry for the book, but I'm trying to make this clear for all the people wondering. Speaking for most, I don't think it's a hatred of Lebron or a thought that he's doomed to fail now... or that he's a complete fraud even if he helps Miami win titles. He'll never be looked at in the same way but basically he went from walking on water to a very, very talented and famous human being. Not exactly a huge fall from grace.

QFT......!!

[wwharton]

Re: Exactly when has a player won a chip "on their own"?

Ok well this explains alot

Guess people were just naive as me

It may take me 3,000 words or more but eventually I get my thoughts to make sense.

[NovaStar]

Re: Exactly when has a player won a chip "on their own"?

It may take me 3,000 words or more but eventually I get my thoughts to make sense.

From now on Wharton, whenever I have something to say about any given topic (except Brady and Peyton, lol) I am just going direct people to your post on the subject. That explanation you gave was excellent!

[wwharton]

Re: Exactly when has a player won a chip "on their own"?

From now on Wharton, whenever I have something to say about any given topic (except Brady and Peyton, lol) I am just going direct people to your post on the subject. That explanation you gave was excellent!

I may need to put that last post in my sig then, lol. Gotta be patient while it takes me 2 or 10 posts to get everything to make sense.

[sb24]

Re: Exactly when has a player won a chip "on their own"?

From now on Wharton, whenever I have something to say about any given topic (except Brady and Peyton, lol) I am just going direct people to your post on the subject. That explanation you gave was excellent!

I learned that a while ago

[rockchisler]

Re: Exactly when has a player won a chip "on their own"?

Throuh this whole process of LeBron leaving the cavs I've seen over and over again that "this proves he can't do it on his own". I can't think of one great player who didn't need a robin to be their to help them win their rings, but just because it lebron people bash him?In 2007 lebron led a (in my opinion) horrible cleveland team to the finals and I can't think of 1 man carrying a team the way he did.

Mj had pippen, and as good as Kobe is people are forgetting he was demanding a trade to the bulls not too long ago because he wanted the same thing lebron wants which is to win.And because it didn't get done he's let off the hook.

If Lebron wins a chip in Miami it will be Dwayne Wades Team, Yeah Wade had help but no one will confuse Lebron being his team..

[dexvex]

Re: Exactly when has a player won a chip "on their own"?

If Lebron wins a chip in Miami it will be Dwayne Wades Team, Yeah Wade had help but no one will confuse Lebron being his team..

If lebron really is better than dwade then it will be lebrons team. Point blank. Maybe not to people who don't matter(media,former players, b-ball nerds,fans) but to everyone who does matter(players and coaching staff) it will be his team.......

[Murkurial]

Re: Exactly when has a player won a chip "on their own"?

If lebron really is better than dwade then it will be lebrons team. Point blank. Maybe not to people who don't matter(media,former players, b-ball nerds,fans) but to everyone who does matter(players and coaching staff) it will be his team.......

It's not point blank at all.

Those are precisely the one's (more so the media) who shape how others perceive players based on what they've done throughout their career (like leave to another superstar's team).

The other players and coaching staff? Miami Heat players definitely won't be bowing down to him because (until further notice) the game will be run through Dwyane and until further notice, Wade has more heart and clout than Lebron. If there's anyone that players would wanna listen to and follow, it's Wade. It definitely won't be run through Lebron and if something like that starts to take shape, there will be problems. If they really are buying into this playing only for championships, put the egos aside, then it will be nobody's team. But of course that can't happen. Someone will have to eventually take over the mantle of THAT DUDE, and (and I'm still not understanding how people don't get this), if Lebron couldn't cut it when he had his OWN team, HE IS NOT GOING TO THE TEAM OF ANOTHER MEGASTAR WHO IS BOTH IN HIS PRIME AND ONLY A SLIGHT NOTCH BELOW HIM IN THE SKILL DEPARTMENT TO TAKE OVER HIS TEAM.

I don't care about all of this "they haven't played a game yet" stuff. Even if someone thinks that Lebron might be a better option to run the team, the mere fact Wade is still there makes it damn near an impossibility that a coach is gonna make that change.

As long as they are selling "Wade County," and "This is Wade's House" t-shirts, the fans will very much have a say in the feeling within the arena and around the team. Do you really think that Wade is going to just back up and say, "Here ya go Lebron, I've been here 7 seasons, already won a championship, the fans love me, it was my team, but you have it. Be a leader like you never were back in Cleveland. Even though I'm in my prime and very much capable of and, more importantly, intent on being the man, I will cede control of the squad to you. Cuz you're the King and I'm just Dwyane Wade. Even though you came to MY team and me and Bosh could just as easily have won a title w/o you. Oh, and I've already won a title w/o you. I need you more than you need me."

I have a feeling that that's precisely what Wade is thinking.

[ParisB]

Re: Exactly when has a player won a chip "on their own"?

i get the feeling that if the game is on the line, Wade will be taking the last shot

[dexvex]

Re: Exactly when has a player won a chip "on their own"?

It's not point blank at all.

Those are precisely the one's (more so the media) who shape how others perceive players based on what they've done throughout their career (like leave to another superstar's team).

The other players and coaching staff? Miami Heat players definitely won't be bowing down to him because (until further notice) the game will be run through Dwyane and until further notice, Wade has more heart and clout than Lebron. If there's anyone that players would wanna listen to and follow, it's Wade. It definitely won't be run through Lebron and if something like that starts to take shape, there will be problems. If they really are buying into this playing only for championships, put the egos aside, then it will be nobody's team. But of course that can't happen. Someone will have to eventually take over the mantle of THAT DUDE, and (and I'm still not understanding how people don't get this), if Lebron couldn't cut it when he had his OWN team, HE IS NOT GOING TO THE TEAM OF ANOTHER MEGASTAR WHO IS BOTH IN HIS PRIME AND ONLY A SLIGHT NOTCH BELOW HIM IN THE SKILL DEPARTMENT TO TAKE OVER HIS TEAM.

I don't care about all of this "they haven't played a game yet" stuff. Even if someone thinks that Lebron might be a better option to run the team, the mere fact Wade is still there makes it damn near an impossibility that a coach is gonna make that change.

As long as they are selling "Wade County," and "This is Wade's House" t-shirts, the fans will very much have a say in the feeling within the arena and around the team. Do you really think that Wade is going to just back up and say, "Here ya go Lebron, I've been here 7 seasons, already won a championship, the fans love me, it was my team, but you have it. Be a leader like you never were back in Cleveland. Even though I'm in my prime and very much capable of and, more importantly, intent on being the man, I will cede control of the squad to you. Cuz you're the King and I'm just Dwyane Wade. Even though you came to MY team and me and Bosh could just as easily have won a title w/o you. Oh, and I've already won a title w/o you. I need you more than you need me."

I have a feeling that that's precisely what Wade is thinking.

No.

You may have never played on a team before but like i said earlier in this thread, The best player will lead this team and yes it is POINT BLANK. When practice and training camp start and the players and coaches see who is better between the two that will be the one who gets the respect as the leader. Thats who is gonna get the respect from the coaches. That is who is gonna get the last second shot. Thats who the players will let kick them in the *** when they screw up.

The fans can tattoo dwade on their chest while the media says dwade is the goat and they would still have absolutely no pull in the locker room. They have no consideration when the game has 3 secs left and the coaches needs to draw somebody up a shot. He knows who is better between dwade and lebron because he watches them in practice everyday. Seriously its not about "bowing down" or whatever chest-thumpin you seem to think occurs, its about being professional and whats best for the team. Im not sure bron is better than wade but it will come out and show in practice and that is where things will start to change in south beach

Secondly I find it extremely debatable who has more heart and clout between the two and I would love to hear your reasoning as to why you are just so sure dwade has more. Oh and before you throw the ring argument please be sure you note that wades championship team was waaay superior to anything CLE has surrounded lebron(even considering the wins).

[wwharton]

Re: Exactly when has a player won a chip "on their own"?

No.

You may have never played on a team before but like i said earlier in this thread, The best player will lead this team and yes it is POINT BLANK. When practice and training camp start and the players and coaches see who is better between the two that will be the one who gets the respect as the leader. Thats who is gonna get the respect from the coaches. That is who is gonna get the last second shot. Thats who the players will let kick them in the *** when they screw up.

The fans can tattoo dwade on their chest while the media says dwade is the goat and they would still have absolutely no pull in the locker room. They have no consideration when the game has 3 secs left and the coaches needs to draw somebody up a shot. He knows who is better between dwade and lebron because he watches them in practice everyday. Seriously its not about "bowing down" or whatever chest-thumpin you seem to think occurs, its about being professional and whats best for the team. Im not sure bron is better than wade but it will come out and show in practice and that is where things will start to change in south beach

Secondly I find it extremely debatable who has more heart and clout between the two and I would love to hear your reasoning as to why you are just so sure dwade has more. Oh and before you throw the ring argument please be sure you note that wades championship team was waaay superior to anything CLE has surrounded lebron(even considering the wins).

YOU may never have played on a team before but the most talented player is most definitely NOT automatically the "leader" and quite often isn't.