Exactly when has a player won a chip "on their own"?

[jeebs9]

Re: Exactly when has a player won a chip "on their own"?

So lets say....Miami wins 3 in a row. LeBron is MVP of each of them or MVP of 2, Wade the other. Would this still be Wades team?

I think if they win. It won't matter in the long run.

Why did Shaq leave Orlando back then for LA? (Na seriously I can't remember..anyone?)

[Starlin4Prez]

Re: Exactly when has a player won a chip "on their own"?

Pretty hypothetical scenario, and I think joining this team, LeBron has already sacrificed any individual regular season MVPs for the rest of his time with these guys. Finals MVPs really don't mean as much anymore, seeing how the last one went. Unless Wade gets hurt for a full season or something like that then maybe.

[Murkurial]

Re: Exactly when has a player won a chip "on their own"?

Secondly I find it extremely debatable who has more heart and clout between the two and I would love to hear your reasoning as to why you are just so sure dwade has more. Oh and before you throw the ring argument please be sure you note that wades championship team was waaay superior to anything CLE has surrounded lebron(even considering the wins).

I won't even be drawn on the "you must have never played on a team before" jab, but as for the above point:

You mean that the guy who stuck with his squad through the good and bad for seven seasons, top three guy in the league, perennial MVP candidate, is a proven "batman," already won a championship (I don't care how bad you think the 60+ win Cavs were the past two seasons, a championship brought to the city by Wade makes him THE MAN regardless)?

^ That guy is gonna get pushed aside by Lebron simply because he's Lebron? The guy who people think ran away from Cleveland (doesn't matter what camp you fall into, the majority of the nation right now isn't to high on James), doesn't want to be Batman, rubs a few guys the wrong way sometimes with his cockiness, dancing, etc. This guy is gonna step into Miami's locker room where, and I can't stress this enough, WADE HAS BEEN THE MAN FOR THE PAST 7 YEARS AND THEY ARE BRINGING IN PLAYERS AGAIN WHO HAVE PLAYED WITH HIM AND KNOW THAT.

Lebron could've gone to a place like NY and with some trades have much better pieces with which to do his thing. And he could've been sure that one of those pieces wasn't one of the two players in the world right now who can actually challenge his title as the best in the NBA. Wade isn't chopped liver. The players will not look at Lebron and just automatically understand that he's the man now. I don't even think that Nike think Lebron's the man now because I've seen exactly zero "King" or "Chosen One" type commercials for the guy anywhere. I wonder how they're gonna market that guy from now on.

Everybody, save for the most ardent Lebron supporter, is feeling like he isn't as mentally tough or up for the challenge as he appeared to be. Everyone is already saying that he's always appeared to be more Magic than Mike (sure didn't say that until recently though and neither did Lebron).

And for the record, the best player (read: Cristiano Ronaldo at Manchester United) isn't always the most respected (read: the captain, Ryan Giggs).

One last thing, Miami fans (however many there are) are most definitely going to be behind Wade, and for the reasons I mentioned above, I can't see a coach or the players going against Wade until maybe he starts to fade. By they way, when he does begin to fade, Lebron will have Bosh and a bunch of scrubs. Let's see how that works out. But anyway, the fans opinions may have something to say about how a players' legacy is perceived after their career is over but it's the sports media that often shapes that opinion (for better or worse) and I really don't see how, unless Lebron continues to play like Lebron and D-Wade does absolutely nothing, that the old-schoolers are going to look at what he's done and view it favorably when put up against the guys that THEY idolized, and the guys that they and most everyone else look at as the gold standard of the league. Unfortunately for Lebron, the new-schoolers that seem to like this superteam **** aren't in the majority right now and likely won't be when he's career is done.

[DieHardYankee26]

Re: Exactly when has a player won a chip "on their own"?

So lets say....Miami wins 3 in a row. LeBron is MVP of each of them or MVP of 2, Wade the other. Would this still be Wades team?

I think if they win. It won't matter in the long run.

Why did Shaq leave Orlando back then for LA? (Na seriously I can't remember..anyone?)

He was just a free agent. But he also wanted to explore acting and other ventures so naturally, LA was the place to be.

[dexvex]

Re: Exactly when has a player won a chip "on their own"?

1. That guy is gonna get pushed aside by Lebron simply because he's Lebron? The guy who people think ran away from Cleveland (doesn't matter what camp you fall into, the majority of the nation right now isn't to high on James), doesn't want to be Batman, rubs a few guys the wrong way sometimes with his cockiness, dancing, etc. This guy is gonna step into Miami's locker room where, and I can't stress this enough, WADE HAS BEEN THE MAN FOR THE PAST 7 YEARS AND THEY ARE BRINGING IN PLAYERS AGAIN WHO HAVE PLAYED WITH HIM AND KNOW THAT.

2.Lebron could've gone to a place like NY and with some trades have much better pieces with which to do his thing. And he could've been sure that one of those pieces wasn't one of the two players in the world right now who can actually challenge his title as the best in the NBA. Wade isn't chopped liver. The players will not look at Lebron and just automatically understand that he's the man now. I don't even think that Nike think Lebron's the man now because I've seen exactly zero "King" or "Chosen One" type commercials for the guy anywhere. I wonder how they're gonna market that guy from now on.

3.Everybody, save for the most ardent Lebron supporter, is feeling like he isn't as mentally tough or up for the challenge as he appeared to be. Everyone is already saying that he's always appeared to be more Magic than Mike (sure didn't say that until recently though and neither did Lebron).



4.One last thing, Miami fans (however many there are) are most definitely going to be behind Wade, and for the reasons I mentioned above, I can't see a coach or the players going against Wade until maybe he starts to fade. By they way, when he does begin to fade, Lebron will have Bosh and a bunch of scrubs. Let's see how that works out. But anyway, the fans opinions may have something to say about how a players' legacy is perceived after their career is over but it's the sports media that often shapes that opinion (for better or worse) and I really don't see how, unless Lebron continues to play like Lebron and D-Wade does absolutely nothing, that the old-schoolers are going to look at what he's done and view it favorably when put up against the guys that THEY idolized, and the guys that they and most everyone else look at as the gold standard of the league. Unfortunately for Lebron, the new-schoolers that seem to like this superteam **** aren't in the majority right now and likely won't be when he's career is done.

1. Its pretty funny you say everybody isn't high on lebron yet less than a month ago all the teams that thought they had a shot were scrambling around tryin to get to cle and woo him to be batman on their team. The bottom line is one of them will defer and if lebron shows dominance it could very well be wade. Wade will always be the one who brought mia their first banner but his spot as leader certainly isn't set in stone by any means. It amuses me how mant people are trying to pin all of this on lebron being scared and this and that when all signs are pointing to wade and bosh wanting this just as much as lebron(Don't forget wades comments around the trade deadline) and already having this planned for years..

2. The point is lebron wanted to win now instead of wasting more time with teams having to rebuild. Also even though I hate those shoes nike certainly has promoted them, idk how many commercials you expect but he only has one sig shoe model a year and like countless other athletes they only promote around the time the shoes actually come out.....

3. Lol what? Since lebron has been in highschool he has been promoted as a hybrid player with Mikes scoring abilty and magics court vision and natural passing skill. You could see it very clearly too when he was clearly the best player in high school ball and instead of dominating the scoreboard he focused on the flashy assist and making his other players look better. And again instead of winning a finals series what exactly has a guy like wade or kobe done that LBJ hasn't in the playoffs. Seriously all this mindset nonsense people are spouting is revisonist history.

4. The only ones im seeing complaining are fans of other teams who missed out. I seriously doubt if this trio was happening on their team all of this "outrage" would be non-existent. The fact is the leauge has always been dominated by stacked teams(look at the number of teams who have won in the last decade or so) and just beacuse lebron and dwade took advantage of the system to form theirs people are butthurt. If these guys would rather play together than compete agianst each other so be it. All it means is that they mutally wanted to play with each other and Mia was the best spot because the "finacial sacrifice" isn't as big as people are making it out to be because of FL's income tax. Trust me this could've easily happened in anywhere else that had the same laws.....

[Murkurial]

Re: Exactly when has a player won a chip "on their own"?

1. Its pretty funny you say everybody isn't high on lebron yet less than a month ago all the teams that thought they had a shot were scrambling around tryin to get to cle and woo him to be batman on their team. The bottom line is one of them will defer and if lebron shows dominance it could very well be wade. Wade will always be the one who brought mia their first banner but his spot as leader certainly isn't set in stone by any means. It amuses me how mant people are trying to pin all of this on lebron being scared and this and that when all signs are pointing to wade and bosh wanting this just as much as lebron(Don't forget wades comments around the trade deadline) and already having this planned for years..

2. The point is lebron wanted to win now instead of wasting more time with teams having to rebuild. Also even though I hate those shoes nike certainly has promoted them, idk how many commercials you expect but he only has one sig shoe model a year and like countless other athletes they only promote around the time the shoes actually come out.....

3. Lol what? Since lebron has been in highschool he has been promoted as a hybrid player with Mikes scoring abilty and magics court vision and natural passing skill. You could see it very clearly too when he was clearly the best player in high school ball and instead of dominating the scoreboard he focused on the flashy assist and making his other players look better. And again instead of winning a finals series what exactly has a guy like wade or kobe done that LBJ hasn't in the playoffs. Seriously all this mindset nonsense people are spouting is revisonist history.

4. The only ones im seeing complaining are fans of other teams who missed out. I seriously doubt if this trio was happening on their team all of this "outrage" would be non-existent. The fact is the leauge has always been dominated by stacked teams(look at the number of teams who have won in the last decade or so) and just beacuse lebron and dwade took advantage of the system to form theirs people are butthurt. If these guys would rather play together than compete agianst each other so be it. All it means is that they mutally wanted to play with each other and Mia was the best spot because the "finacial sacrifice" isn't as big as people are making it out to be because of FL's income tax. Trust me this could've easily happened in anywhere else that had the same laws.....

1. And Miami was always the one spot that nobody thought he'd go because Wade was already there. Everyone was of the mindset that he'd pick a place like Chicago or to a lesser extent NY where he could be the undisputed MAN and have much better pieces (apparently) around him than he did at Cleveland. Maybe his mind doesn't work that way is what people are saying now. But he's still now going to go to the ONE place that everyone was sure he wouldn't go, because of Wade, and take over Wade's mantle. I guess I'll just ride the fence right now and say "we'll see..."

If you believe they had it planned for years now (and I feel like this was set in motion some time ago as well) keep in mind that they didn't all go to Cleveland, or Toronto, they went to Wade's team. Point to cap space if you want, but at the very least Wade seems to have made out pretty well in all of this because he's bring these dudes to his house and it will remain his house until further notice.

2. He had two options that wouldn't mean straight up rebuilding. Once again, he's 25 and nearing his prime. With Chicago (glad he didn't come here) there's probably no rebuilding to be done. With NY, it's maybe a year. As for the Nike thing, it's not even just them, and the whole advertisement thing isn't a huge part of my point but I just thought it was interesting to note. Nobody is really calling him King James anymore from what I've heard lately and you'd think that even with the slight hit that Lebron's popularity has taken, that Nike would try and do a little something. But how can they when they'd be essentially trying to build him up like he's THAT DUDE, when he's not right now in Miami.

3. The point with #3 was that maybe now he doesn't wanna be Mike. Barry, maybe Legler, expressed a bit of disappointment at the fact that we might not get to see the super dominant Lebron of the past few season where he had to be that dude. Maybe he does have Magic's passing ability, but he was built up as the successor to MJ and now it appears that he's more of a guy who makes the pass instead of takes the shot. If he's THAT guy, he won't be the man in Miami.

4. For the record, I'm not mad at all about him coming to Chicago. It's just the guys that keep acting like his legacy isn't even taking a bit of a hit in all of this. Dwyane didn't do anything. Well, I think he jerked the Bulls around a bit and probably acted as a bit of a player/agent but whatever. He's got his spot in Miami and he's brought two players to HIM. It's the dudes that look at Lebron "could been the best since Jordan or even better" leaving the Cavs through FA (his right to do that by the way) go to Miami with another player who's just as good and still say that he'll be the man on that team, he could still be the GOAT (or if not, that he never wanted to be and it doesn't matter, Jordan isn't the gold standard, etc.) that make my head spin. They can play together, instead of against one another, but that won't help Lebron's legacy when trying to stack him up against all-time greats. He'll be one of the best. Not THE best. That's all that some people are saying but people still feel like "oh, he hasn't played a game on the Heat, he very well might step in and kick Wade to the curb and be the man on a stacked team and this move in NO WAY stomps on his legacy."

If people think that he hasn't been hyped up as THAT DUDE, or that now all of a sudden he never wanted to be THAT DUDE (despite everything that's been said and done by him in the past), then I guess the conversation has to end there. I mean, be a Lebron fan, it's fine, but acting like he's comes out of this with absolutely no hit on his legacy is pretty fanboyish (and not just because of how he handled "The Decision").

But honestly, the points that I'm making have been brought up a million times in the past couple weeks in the Lebron thread so if you wanna search through and get some thoughts guys with a higher ranking than mine, feel free. I can't keep repeating myself though.

[Cebby]

Re: Exactly when has a player won a chip "on their own"?

If you believe they had it planned for years now (and I feel like this was set in motion some time ago as well) keep in mind that they didn't all go to Cleveland, or Toronto, they went to Wade's team. Point to cap space if you want, but at the very least Wade seems to have made out pretty well in all of this because he's bring these dudes to his house and it will remain his house until further notice.

If they went to Cleveland or Toronto the players that weren't resigning would be making the MLE and minimum salary.

Plus Miami is 100,000,000 times more desirable a city for a 20 something millionaire.

Nobody is really calling him King James anymore from what I've heard lately

Nobody was calling him King James before either.

It's just the guys that keep acting like his legacy isn't even taking a bit of a hit in all of this

Lebron's career isn't even half way over.

How can you say his legacy is taking a hit? Legacy is a retrospective. Lebron's legacy won't even exist for another 10 years.

[Murkurial]

Re: Exactly when has a player won a chip "on their own"?

.....

You've made it pretty clear what you're on so I don't know if there's much use in arguing your points. Everything that you've said is completely right.

[ProfessaPackMan]

Re: Exactly when has a player won a chip "on their own"?

Nobody was calling him King James before either.

Plenty of people were.

[Jukeman]

Re: Exactly when has a player won a chip "on their own"?

If this guy averaged 19ppg 7rpg 11apg for his career, won rings with 2 other HOF'ers, would he not be consider one of the greats (or the GOAT) and be a business mogul or very popular???


I fully understand WHY some would make the comments they were making but Jordan as the ceiling is very unfair...

Because he was on "pace" to meet those standards, he "legacy" will be tainted because he didnt fulfill those expectations...

[Cebby]

Re: Exactly when has a player won a chip "on their own"?

Plenty of people were.

Who?

It was a magazine cover nickname. I don't think I've ever seen or heard somebody call him "King James" in real life or the internet.

[ProfessaPackMan]

Re: Exactly when has a player won a chip "on their own"?

If this guy averaged 19ppg 7rpg 11apg for his career, won rings with 2 other HOF'ers that were homegrown with him and not making deals behind the scenes, wasn't hyped as the biggest thing this league has had since MJ, was never dubbed the soon to be "King", would he not be consider one of the greats (or the GOAT) and be a business mogul or very popular???


I fully understand WHY some would make the comments they were making but Jordan as the ceiling is very unfair...

Because he was on "pace" to meet those standards, he "legacy" will be tainted because he didnt fulfill those expectations...

Left out a few things.

But to answer the question, folks would consider him ONE of. But I would think if you played a Professional Sport, you would do everything in YOUR power to become THE great, not ONE OF, wouldn't you agree?

[Starlin4Prez]

Re: Exactly when has a player won a chip "on their own"?

It's not like he tried to stop people from calling him that.

It was a magazine cover nickname. I don't think I've ever seen or heard somebody call him "King James" in real life or the internet.

Have you ever watched any national broadcast of the NBA where the Cavs were involved? You could of played a drinking game to it. They drove that nickname into the ground.








And I could keep going...

[ProfessaPackMan]

Re: Exactly when has a player won a chip "on their own"?

Who?

It was a magazine cover nickname. I don't think I've ever seen or heard somebody call him "King James" in real life or the internet.

If you're talking about just people in general, then there were plenty who did. Hell, you could go to any gym and hear a discussion of who's the best Player in the League, and I guarantee half of the responses would be "King James, dawg. There's a reason they call him that for a reason!!!!!"

[nuckles2k2]

Re: Exactly when has a player won a chip "on their own"?

Who?

It was a magazine cover nickname. I don't think I've ever seen or heard somebody call him "King James" in real life or the internet.

This commercial aired during "The Decision" and I know you were watching it along with everyone else, so come on dude...