2010-11 NBA Regular Season MVP Discussion

[BlueNGold]

Re: Who is your NBA MVP as of right now?

Back up that theory with actual facts and examples. Because without evidence, it's nothing more than a theory [a poor one IMO].

I don't even get the point. He's talking about theoreticals when it comes to Wade while acknowledging LeBron is consistently putting up the numbers/performances he does.

[ex carrabba fan]

Re: Who is your NBA MVP as of right now?

I agree with you. I would say it's pretty close, and is why I included Wade/James in my top 6.

I believe you can have them in the top 6 even as teammates because they lack depth and have suffered injuries to key players [Haslem/Miller]. They have both produced enough to warrant MVP discussion.

[BlueNGold]

Re: Who is your NBA MVP as of right now?

Yeah, both are in the running/in the discussion, but I just don't see how either could win it at least for this year. Neither guy took full control of that team and to say otherwise is false IMO.

[crusaderhoops10]

Re: Who is your NBA MVP as of right now?

Back up that theory with actual facts and examples. Because without evidence, it's nothing more than a theory [a poor one IMO].

Lol, it's a poor theory that the Heat are a better team and more of a title contender when Wade lifts his game to where he is the best player for the Heat and is more active on defense and hitting his shots on offense?

My bad, I forgot the Heat were better when Wade was uninterested on defense and not hitting shots and the team got to stand around and watch LeBron go half speed at the top of the key using a pick-and-roll and kicking out to someone for three.

Bottom line, I just think the Heat are better and have a better shot at winning it all when Wade is at his best. Overall I think LeBron is a better player but Wade a better closer and that's what this team needs to go all the way. Like the way Wade turned up his defense against Boston last time they played it took the Heat to another level for instance. To me, that makes Wade more valuable.

Everyone has a somewhat different definition of what an MVP is. For me it's more of the most important guy that helps you toward winning a title. My opinion is that Wade is that guy for Miami and while LeBron is also extremely valuable to the team and has a better PER and all, I still think the team eventually goes as far as Wade takes them.

It's ok if you think LeBron is more valuable. I'm not going to ask you to list every moment of the season that made him more valuable than Wade. People just value different things in players and that's why there's a discussion and vote for MVP and we don't just go by who has the highest PER.

[TheMatrix31]

Re: Who is your NBA MVP as of right now?

Neither of them deserve it.

Rose..........Howard.

[crusaderhoops10]

Re: Who is your NBA MVP as of right now?

Neither of them deserve it.

Rose..........Howard.

I agree with this, all I was talking about there was who I thought was more valuable for the Heat. But it really doesn't matter because I'd pick Rose or Howard ahead of them too.

[ex carrabba fan]

Re: Who is your NBA MVP as of right now?

Lol, it's a poor theory that the Heat are a better team and more of a title contender when Wade lifts his game to where he is the best player for the Heat and is more active on defense and hitting his shots on offense?

My bad, I forgot the Heat were better when Wade was uninterested on defense and not hitting shots and the team got to stand around and watch LeBron go half speed at the top of the key using a pick-and-roll and kicking out to someone for three.

Bottom line, I just think the Heat are better and have a better shot at winning it all when Wade is at his best. Overall I think LeBron is a better player but Wade a better closer and that's what this team needs to go all the way. Like the way Wade turned up his defense against Boston last time they played it took the Heat to another level for instance. To me, that makes Wade more valuable.

Everyone has a somewhat different definition of what an MVP is. For me it's more of the most important guy that helps you toward winning a title. My opinion is that Wade is that guy for Miami and while LeBron is also extremely valuable to the team and has a better PER and all, I still think the team eventually goes as far as Wade takes them.

It's ok if you think LeBron is more valuable. I'm not going to ask you to list every moment of the season that made him more valuable than Wade. People just value different things in players and that's why there's a discussion and vote for MVP and we don't just go by who has the highest PER.

I don't necessarily think one is more valuable than the other, I was just trying to figure out how you thought it was OK to insult the people [a lot of people] who actually think James is the MVP of the Heat not Wade. Saying reckless things like "they don't watch the Heat enough". Sure pal.

I'm not even going to address the other parts of your post because you still haven't backed anything up with actual facts or examples. Just you going on pure opinion again. Cool.

[wwharton]

Re: Who is your NBA MVP as of right now?

I don't necessarily think one is more valuable than the other, I was just trying to figure out how you thought it was OK to insult the people [a lot of people] who actually think James is the MVP of the Heat not Wade. Saying reckless things like "they don't watch the Heat enough". Sure pal.

I'm not even going to address the other parts of your post because you still haven't backed anything up with actual facts or examples. Just you going on pure opinion again. Cool.

Please tone down the sarcasm.

BTW crusaderhoops, your logic is a bit flawed for a couple of reasons. The first is that MVP is a regular season award. But even without that, look at this example... Kobe is the most valuable player on the Lakers. We'd probably agree that Gasol needs to step his game up if the Lakers plan on repeating. That doesn't mean Gasol is really the most valuable player on the team, it just means the team as a whole can't win it all without Kobe AND Gasol playing at a high level.

[Altimus]

Re: 2010-11 NBA Regular Season MVP Discussion

To continue the discussion... so because Durant will have two straight awards and has improved automatically puts him ahead of Rose? Can't I just say Rose will be MVP like you said Durant will be scoring champ and has improved all around as well.

Not sure how you say the hype is getting out of control. He gets the job done, he puts the team on his back and he carries them to wins. As I said, LBJ and Kobe are the only no discussion players. Wade and Durant are debatable to me.

[ex carrabba fan]

Re: 2010-11 NBA Regular Season MVP Discussion

To continue the discussion... so because Durant will have two straight awards and has improved automatically puts him ahead of Rose? Can't I just say Rose will be MVP like you said Durant will be scoring champ and has improved all around as well.

Not sure how you say the hype is getting out of control. He gets the job done, he puts the team on his back and he carries them to wins. As I said, LBJ and Kobe are the only no discussion players. Wade and Durant are debatable to me.

To start: You can give Rose the MVP. I don't care about that, he probably deserves it. Calling him the best player in the world though?

I think the hype is out of control when I hear people saying 'Rose is the best player in the league this year'. And I've heard that at other forums as well. If you look at a guy like Russell Westbrook, I really don't think he's even that far behind Rose.

That's all I really have to say on that front.

Durant to me is still a different caliber to Rose. Going back to last year, the World Championships, and then on to this year's regular season and carrying them to however many wins they got.

No I haven't spoken to a single GM, but if I were to wager my life on it, I'd guess more GM's would say Durant, Wade are ahead of Rose's name in terms of getting a title this year. Or even next year. If you would wager your life on Rose's name, so be it.

[Altimus]

Re: 2010-11 NBA Regular Season MVP Discussion

To start: You can give Rose the MVP. I don't care about that, he probably deserves it. Calling him the best player in the world though?

I think the hype is out of control when I hear people saying 'Rose is the best player in the league this year'. And I've heard that at other forums as well. If you look at a guy like Russell Westbrook, I really don't think he's even that far behind Rose.

That's all I really have to say on that front.

Durant to me is still a different caliber to Rose. Going back to last year, the World Championships, and then on to this year's regular season and carrying them to however many wins they got.

No I haven't spoken to a single GM, but if I were to wager my life on it, I'd guess more GM's would say Durant, Wade are ahead of Rose's name in terms of getting a title this year. Or even next year. If you would wager your life on Rose's name, so be it.

First, I never said Rose is the best in the league. A lot to improve on to be in that discussion.

Durant is a tough one for me and this is perhaps where some bias hits but I still think it's close. And I can't disagree that more GM's would take Durant. His length is a huge factor.

We'll see how they Playoffs play out and how he each player carries their team.

[ex carrabba fan]

Re: 2010-11 NBA Regular Season MVP Discussion

First, I never said Rose is the best in the league. A lot to improve on to be in that discussion.

Durant is a tough one for me and this is perhaps where some bias hits but I still think it's close. And I can't disagree that more GM's would take Durant. His length is a huge factor.

We'll see how they Playoffs play out and how he each player carries their team.

I know you never said that, I was saying 'when I hear people saying Rose is the best...' which is exactly what was said by multiple people in the other thread, I think the hype is a bit much. I have also read the same statements on other boards from guys I respect.

I'm baffled as to how they have come to that conclusion.

[PrettyT11]

Re: 2010-11 NBA Regular Season MVP Discussion

To me Rose has clearly put himself into that elite group this year. I agree with Alt in that LBJ and Kobe are the only guys I would clearly put ahead of him right now. Dwight is a hard compre since they play different positions but I will put him right up there. As far as Wade goes the only edge I can give him is on the defensive end. Offensively there isn't anything that Wade does that Rose can't do plus Rose is the better outside shooter and free throw shooter. Rose has also proved this year than he can win you games when they are on the line.

As far as Durant goes I can't honestly put him on a higher level. Durant's defense and playmaking have not improved at all this year and his defense was worse this year compared to last. Durant's numbers are down across the board this year. I as well as many expected him to go to another level this year especially after what happened this summer but it just didn't happen. Westbrook actually improved more as a player this year than Durant. Rose was the more impressive than Durant this year.

Ex I agree that the vast majority of the GM's would have taken Durant over Rose if asked before the season started. If you asked them now though I am sure the vote would be alot closer. As far as winning it all this year Rose has his team in a better position to win it all this year than Durant. Also Rose has the far better playoff performances than Durant so I don't know how anybody could say Durant would get you closer to a ring this year than Rose could.

[ex carrabba fan]

Re: 2010-11 NBA Regular Season MVP Discussion

Just gonna pick out a few points because I really can't dispute anything else that was said:

Durant has definitely improved his playmaking. His handle, his passing and his ability to get to the rim have all improved. Don't know how I can prove it one way or the other [he is a leader in dunks], but last year nobody took them that seriously because really Durant as well as the Thunder were "predictable". He has improved the other aspects of his offensive game to make him more dynamic. The halfcourt sets are not as black and white anymore, but credit goes to Westbrook for also improving his overall game and decision making.

As far as his defense, now that's one of the toughest things to debate. All I can say is, IMO his one on one defense is definitely solid. The team defensive stats are down from last year, and have been well documented. I'm not gonna address that, but as far as individual man to man defense, I liked what I saw in the World Championships and also in the regular season.

Overall my main point is that I am just baffled as to how a lot people view Rose's performance this year. I don't mean to diminish it, but I think a lot of people are overreacting a bit.

It will be very interesting to see the Russell Westbrook v Rose as we go forward. If people think Rose has broke into the cream of the crop, I wonder if Westbrook can get there too since I really see him as trailing just a bit behind.

[PrettyT11]

Re: 2010-11 NBA Regular Season MVP Discussion

When I saw you said playmaking I was thinking you was talking about him setting up his teammates or making plays for them. I kinda of look at what you just said as him improving his offensive ability of ways to score the basketball. He has been among the leaders in dunks the past couple of years. I don't know Ex I haven't really seem him drive alot more this year. I have seen him settle for the jumper more this year. I know his free throw attempts are down but I would have to take a look at his shot locations to see just how much of a difference there has been. I don't want nobody to get me wrong now Durant is a great young player and is among the elite group. So I don't want anybody to think I'm dissing him.

As far as Westbrook goes he could move into the elite group. With the way he has improved and how hard he works I don't see him slacking off. So if he keeps improving it could be done. I do believe though that Rose is clearly ahead of Westbrook. I don't see anything that Westbrook does better than Rose besides a slight advantage in rebounding. I would be scary to think of what Rose could do with a elite level scorer like Durant playing next to him drawing double teams and things.