2010-11 NBA Regular Season MVP Discussion

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  • ex carrabba fan
    I'll thank him for you
    • Oct 2004
    • 32744

    #661
    Re: 2010-11 NBA Regular Season MVP Discussion

    Originally posted by mKoz26
    Nah, that's not what you said.

    You said he wasn't even on their level.
    Is there a difference? If I don't think Rose is better than Kobe, Durant, Wade, LeBron why would I say he's on their level?

    Does that mean Rose isn't elite? No. It would be foolish to not consider the MVP elite. I just don't think he's the best player in the league. In fact I think there's at least a few guys ahead of him for that title, if not 4 guys.

    Comment

    • PrettyT11
      MVP
      • Jul 2008
      • 3220

      #662
      Re: 2010-11 NBA Regular Season MVP Discussion

      Originally posted by iAM-IncReDiBLe-
      I think it shows how dedicated Rose is to getting better. Every season he has made great improvements in his game.
      It does. It is great to see some of these yound up and coming stars like him, Durant, Love, Blake, Westbrook and others work so hard and getting better and seeing the results on the floor. You can see those guys are not just happy with being good and getting paid. They want to be the best. I wish some of those other ultra talented guys like JR Smith had that same type of drive and desire.

      Comment

      • mKoz26
        In case you forgot...
        • Jan 2009
        • 4685

        #663
        Re: 2010-11 NBA Regular Season MVP Discussion

        Originally posted by ex carrabba fan
        Is there a difference? If I don't think Rose is better than Kobe, Durant, Wade, LeBron why would I say he's on their level?
        Levels mean guys are interchangeable or very close in talent.

        Rose being on the same level as a group of guys does not mean he's better than all of them. Why would it? Where did you get that idea?

        I really don't understand how you can say Rose is elite then turn around and say Kobe/LeBron/Durant/Wade are all on a different level. What does that make them? Elite-elite?
        Bears | Bulls | Cubs | Illinois | #Team3Some

        @CDonkey26

        Originally posted by baumy300
        Yeah, she may be a bit of a beotch, but you get back to me when you find out a way to motorboat personality...

        Comment

        • ex carrabba fan
          I'll thank him for you
          • Oct 2004
          • 32744

          #664
          Re: 2010-11 NBA Regular Season MVP Discussion

          Originally posted by mKoz26
          Levels mean guys are interchangeable or very close in talent.

          Rose being on the same level as a group of guys does not mean he's better than all of them. Why would it? Where did you get that idea?

          I really don't understand how you can say Rose is elite then turn around and say Kobe/LeBron/Durant/Wade are all on a different level. What does that make them? Elite-elite?
          I don't care what you wanna call them. My point was I don't think Rose is on their level. How is that such a difficult concept?

          Comment

          • mKoz26
            In case you forgot...
            • Jan 2009
            • 4685

            #665
            Re: 2010-11 NBA Regular Season MVP Discussion

            Originally posted by ex carrabba fan
            I don't care what you wanna call them. My point was I don't think Rose is on their level. How is that such a difficult concept?
            It's not a difficult concept, and I'm not making it one.

            You're contradicting yourself every time you claim Rose is not on the top level while still agreeing that he's elite. How is that such a difficult concept? It's a blatant contradiction.

            EDIT:


            –noun
            1. ( often used with a plural verb ) the choice or best of anything considered collectively, as of a group or class of persons.

            2. ( used with a plural verb ) persons of the highest class: Only the elite were there.
            Bears | Bulls | Cubs | Illinois | #Team3Some

            @CDonkey26

            Originally posted by baumy300
            Yeah, she may be a bit of a beotch, but you get back to me when you find out a way to motorboat personality...

            Comment

            • ex carrabba fan
              I'll thank him for you
              • Oct 2004
              • 32744

              #666
              Re: 2010-11 NBA Regular Season MVP Discussion

              Originally posted by mKoz26
              It's not a difficult concept, and I'm not making it one.

              You're contradicting yourself every time you claim Rose is not on the top level while still agreeing that he's elite. How is that such a difficult concept? It's a blatant contradiction.

              EDIT:


              –noun
              1. ( often used with a plural verb ) the choice or best of anything considered collectively, as of a group or class of persons.

              2. ( used with a plural verb ) persons of the highest class: Only the elite were there.
              This is getting silly.

              It's clear as day as to how I believe Rose stacks up against the best of the best. He isn't quite there yet, but he's very close.

              Comment

              • mKoz26
                In case you forgot...
                • Jan 2009
                • 4685

                #667
                Re: 2010-11 NBA Regular Season MVP Discussion

                Originally posted by ex carrabba fan
                This is getting silly.

                It's clear as day as to how I believe Rose stacks up against the best of the best. He isn't quite there yet, but he's very close.

                Wait, what?
                Originally posted by ex carrabba fan
                You can group him with the elite of the elite, fine.
                Originally posted by ex carrabba fan
                There's little doubt that he's elite and I don't think many people would say he isn't.
                Originally posted by ex carrabba fan
                No, I doubted that he is better than Kobe, LeBron, Wade and Durant.

                Not sure you understand what my point was, so hopefully you do now.

                He is still very much elite.
                Originally posted by ex carrabba fan
                Does that mean Rose isn't elite? No. It would be foolish to not consider the MVP elite.
                Originally posted by ex carrabba fan
                I don't care what you wanna call them. My point was I don't think Rose is on their level. How is that such a difficult concept?
                EDIT:


                –noun
                1. ( often used with a plural verb ) the choice or best of anything considered collectively, as of a group or class of persons.

                2. ( used with a plural verb ) persons of the highest class: Only the elite were there.
                ...
                persons of the highest class
                But when I point out your inability to comprehend what "elite" means, I'm silly.



                You're trying to have it both ways. Appease the many people who like Rose by saying he's elite, but still hanging onto your idea that he's not and wording it differently. I don't even know why you're doing it, but you are. If you believe he's elite, fine. If not, fine. Just don't tell me he's elite but not in the top group of guys. That's a contradiction clear as day. Suggesting anything otherwise can only be described as silly.
                Last edited by mKoz26; 04-17-2011, 08:58 PM.
                Bears | Bulls | Cubs | Illinois | #Team3Some

                @CDonkey26

                Originally posted by baumy300
                Yeah, she may be a bit of a beotch, but you get back to me when you find out a way to motorboat personality...

                Comment

                • BATMON
                  Banned
                  • Oct 2010
                  • 1445

                  #668
                  Re: 2010-11 NBA Regular Season MVP Discussion

                  Top 15 not top 3?

                  Comment

                  • Dice
                    Sitting by the door
                    • Jul 2002
                    • 6627

                    #669
                    Re: 2010-11 NBA Regular Season MVP Discussion

                    Originally posted by ex carrabba fan
                    Is there a difference? If I don't think Rose is better than Kobe, Durant, Wade, LeBron why would I say he's on their level?

                    Does that mean Rose isn't elite? No. It would be foolish to not consider the MVP elite. I just don't think he's the best player in the league. In fact I think there's at least a few guys ahead of him for that title, if not 4 guys.
                    If your going to give me more than four players better than Rose, then I think your feeding into the Rose anti-hype, or hate as most call it.

                    Personally, I'll give you LeBron and Kobe. BUT anybody else after those two, I can make a solid case that Rose could be better than anybody else. And beyond four players, I'm not even going to argue because I think you'd be wrong.
                    I have more respect for a man who let's me know where he stands, even if he's wrong. Than the one who comes up like an angel and is nothing but a devil. - Malcolm X

                    Comment

                    • Bumi
                      Banned
                      • Sep 2010
                      • 967

                      #670
                      Re: 2010-11 NBA Regular Season MVP Discussion

                      Personally, and I'll be labeled either a ***** or homer because I say this, I don't think Rose is that much better than Westbrook. They're essentially the same player. And I don't think either is better than Chris Paul. But that's just me.

                      As for where Rose lies in terms of the leagues best? After LeBron, Kobe, Dwight, Paul, and Kevin. But I'd have no issue with someone else having Rose in the top 5 as opposed to CP3.

                      Comment

                      • iAM-IncReDiBLe-
                        Next Miami Great
                        • Dec 2008
                        • 4285

                        #671
                        Re: 2010-11 NBA Regular Season MVP Discussion

                        Originally posted by Bumi
                        Personally, and I'll be labeled either a ***** or homer because I say this, I don't think Rose is that much better than Westbrook. They're essentially the same player. And I don't think either is better than Chris Paul. But that's just me.

                        As for where Rose lies in terms of the leagues best? After LeBron, Kobe, Dwight, Paul, and Kevin. But I'd have no issue with someone else having Rose in the top 5 as opposed to CP3.
                        I agree with the bold.

                        Comment

                        • Po Pimp
                          MVP
                          • Jan 2005
                          • 2252

                          #672
                          Re: 2010-11 NBA Regular Season MVP Discussion

                          Originally posted by Bumi
                          Personally, and I'll be labeled either a ***** or homer because I say this, I don't think Rose is that much better than Westbrook. They're essentially the same player. And I don't think either is better than Chris Paul. But that's just me.

                          As for where Rose lies in terms of the leagues best? After LeBron, Kobe, Dwight, Paul, and Kevin. But I'd have no issue with someone else having Rose in the top 5 as opposed to CP3.


                          This isn't 2K bro. You can't simply go by stats and PERs...if that were the case, T-Mac was better than Kobe from around 2001-2004
                          Last edited by Po Pimp; 04-18-2011, 12:40 AM.

                          Comment

                          • Bumi
                            Banned
                            • Sep 2010
                            • 967

                            #673
                            Re: 2010-11 NBA Regular Season MVP Discussion

                            Originally posted by Po Pimp


                            This isn't 2K bro. You can't simply go by stats and PERs...if that were the case, T-Mac was better than Kobe from around 2001-2004
                            I don't play 2k. In fact, I don't play video games much at all anymore.


                            Watch the two of them play(I'm sure you have). They literally bring the exact same game with Rose having a better handle on the ball and Westbrook being better on the boards.

                            Comment

                            • Po Pimp
                              MVP
                              • Jan 2005
                              • 2252

                              #674
                              Re: 2010-11 NBA Regular Season MVP Discussion

                              Originally posted by Bumi
                              I don't play 2k. In fact, I don't play video games much at all anymore.


                              Watch the two of them play(I'm sure you have). They literally bring the exact same game with Rose having a better handle on the ball and Westbrook being better on the boards.
                              The only thing they have in common is that they are both athletic PGs. Westbrook being better on the boards is a wash seeing as though not only is Westbrook bigger (he's 6'3.5" compared to Rose's 6'2.5") but Rose plays with top rebounders like Noah and Boozer. Westbrook is probably a better defender as that was his calling card since college, but Rose's D has improved dramatically since his rookie year.

                              Rose is a WAY more skilled player. Better ball control, better handles, better shooter, better finisher around the basket, better leader...I could go on and on. I've seen Westbrook play very erratic numerous times with poor shot selection and turnovers where he goes to fast and loses the ball. Don't get me wrong, Westbrook is good and an all star level talent, but Rose is a top 5 player in the league right now.

                              Comment

                              • Bumi
                                Banned
                                • Sep 2010
                                • 967

                                #675
                                Re: 2010-11 NBA Regular Season MVP Discussion

                                Originally posted by Po Pimp
                                The only thing they have in common is that they are both athletic PGs. Westbrook being better on the boards is a wash seeing as though not only is Westbrook bigger (he's 6'3.5" compared to Rose's 6'2.5") but Rose plays with top rebounders like Noah and Boozer. Westbrook is probably a better defender as that was his calling card since college, but Rose's D has improved dramatically since his rookie year.

                                Rose is a WAY more skilled player. Better ball control, better handles, better shooter, better finisher around the basket, better leader...I could go on and on. I've seen Westbrook play very erratic numerous times with poor shot selection and turnovers where he goes to fast and loses the ball. Don't get me wrong, Westbrook is good and an all star level talent, but Rose is a top 5 player in the league right now.
                                Rose isn't "way" more skilled. He handles the ball better, something I've already alluded to. He isn't a better shooter. In that aspect, it's six in one hand, a half dozen in the other. Same goes for finishing at or around the basket. Being a better leader isn't quantifiable. Though, I'll give the nod to Rose. Which, makes sense considering Rose is the unquestioned leader of his squad. Westbrook isn't. Due in part to the fact the he plays alongside an elite player and legit superstar. Someone better than himself.

                                Westbrook, at times, plays erratic. So does Rose. Same goes for shoot selection.

                                The two aren't that far apart from each other, and their respective games most definitely mirrors the others.

                                Comment

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