2010-11 NBA Regular Season MVP Discussion

[TMagic]

Re: 2010-11 NBA Regular Season MVP Discussion

Sorry, but I do think it's Kool-Aid talk if anyone thinks Rose is the best player in the league.

Yeah, when I first read that in whatever thread it was, I had to do a double take.

[BlueNGold]

Re: 2010-11 NBA Regular Season MVP Discussion

Yea I know what you mean. I didn't like him in college. But once he was in the nba. He grew on me alot.

I'm still waiting for Lebron to get his first major injury. I know its right around the corner some where.

Sent from my DROIDX using Tapatalk

Damnit, don't say that. The elbow in the face that lead to him having to wear the Rip mask (and then dunk all over Damon Jones) was enough.

It is some kind of crazy that he hasn't had one yet though.

[Dice]

Re: 2010-11 NBA Regular Season MVP Discussion

Sorry, but I do think it's Kool-Aid talk if anyone thinks Rose is the best player in the league. Do I think it's moronic? No. Do I think it's homerish to hear it from Bulls' fan? Yes.

As far as being the best PG in the league, sure give him that crown for the regular season. It's pretty damn evident that the gap is minuscule. It's the golden age for PG's right now. The crown could switch heads a ton in the near future.

Telling yall, Westbrook is on Rose's ***!

It's funny you say that because I actually agree that Rose is not the best player in the league. So let's get that out of the way. BUT I don't think it's homersim or kool-aid talk if someone says that. Doc Rivers himself says that, "Derrick Rose is the best player this year in the NBA." So now Doc is trippin? Sorry, but I can't dismiss the comments of a guy who's been coach of the year and the coach of an NBA championship team as 'drinking kool-aid.' You may think so BUT I'll take his comments into consideration before anybody on this board.

So if Derrick Rose was to win the championship and along the way beat LeBron and Kobe, would he still be the best player to you then? I'll tell you this, there would be more than Bulls fan who will jump on the bandwagon if that was to happen.

[ex carrabba fan]

Re: 2010-11 NBA Regular Season MVP Discussion

Yes Doc is trippin

Those are the "ifs" that will allow him to be mentioned with the LeBron's and Kobe's.

For now he isn't there yet.

[Jukeman]

After CP3, Westbrook and even Rondo going into "hungry mode" mode yesterday. The PG guard dedate could go on forever lol.

Lol that's exactly why I'm

People looked at my name with a crazy face when I said the "tier 1" label was some BS and the likes of Westbrook Rose and you know who wasn't far behind those other 3 "elite" PG's

. . .

[mKoz26]

Re: 2010-11 NBA Regular Season MVP Discussion

It's just that dude is arguing over semantics and not the real discusssion at hand. Holding onto what "elite" means and using that as basis for his argument.

The whole time Ex is saying that Rose is one the best players in the league. But that he's just not as good as a few other guys that are in the league.

Simple really. If "elite" was never thrown out there, mKoz26 wouldn't even have anything to debate with him about.

No, I tried to make my point, and apparently ex can discredit it as drinking Kool-aid and silly.

Ex steps into condescending mode the moment someone questions him and it's a tired act. I don't want to get personal but I see it all the time with him and it's just getting old. Believe it or not, all of our opinions here in this NBA forum are equal, regardless of fanship, post number, join date, or name color.

The "semantics" argument came either because of ex's inability to understand the definition of a word or his inability to stick to a viewpoint. I strongly dislike when people try to flop back and forth from side to side in an argument to appease both sides, as it seemed ex was doing.

Saying "Rose is elite, but he's not in the top group of guys" makes no sense whatsoever. My guess is that ex said Rose is elite just so it didn't seem like he was drinking the "anti-Kool-aid", i.e. hating.
(appeasing the guys who like Rose)

The common belief is that Rose is now elite, but I don't think ex actually believes that. Hence his separation of Rose from Kobe/LeBron/KD/Wade.
(while still stating his viewpoint contrary to his earlier appeasement)

And yet he still calls him elite. Does that make sense to you?

I don't know. Maybe I'm wrong, and ex just couldn't articulate his viewpoint on Rose. I understand that it's not always easy. I have trouble with that all the time.

But to discredit what I said as "silly" is straight disrespectful IMO. And I'm certainly not disrespecting anyone here, because I know that my opinion can be wrong.



Moving on because maybe my point is not yet clear enough.

My top guys go like this (rankings, not groupings)
1. LeBron
2. Kobe
3. Durant
4. Rose
5. Wade
6. Dwight
7. CP3

I don't believe Rose is the best player in the league. That's two or three years of hard work away. However, I don't think it is at all ridiculous or "homeristic" or "due to hype/Kool-aid" to say that Rose was the best player in the NBA this season. He certainly had the talent, he led his oft injured team to the top seed in his conference and best overall record, and he showed an ability to score and lead in "clutch situations".

Tell me who had a better regular season?

[BATMON]

Re: 2010-11 NBA Regular Season MVP Discussion

Could they win something before the best talk starts.

[mKoz26]

Re: 2010-11 NBA Regular Season MVP Discussion

Could they win something before the best talk starts.

At some point you're going to need to tell us specifically what you're talking about.

We can't respond if you don't.

[ex carrabba fan]

Re: 2010-11 NBA Regular Season MVP Discussion

No, I tried to make my point, and apparently ex can discredit it as drinking Kool-aid and silly.

Ex steps into condescending mode the moment someone questions him and it's a tired act. I don't want to get personal but I see it all the time with him and it's just getting old. Believe it or not, all of our opinions here in this NBA forum are equal, regardless of fanship, post number, join date, or name color.

The "semantics" argument came either because of ex's inability to understand the definition of a word or his inability to stick to a viewpoint. I strongly dislike when people try to flop back and forth from side to side in an argument to appease both sides, as it seemed ex was doing.

Saying "Rose is elite, but he's not in the top group of guys" makes no sense whatsoever. My guess is that ex said Rose is elite just so it didn't seem like he was drinking the "anti-Kool-aid", i.e. hating.
(appeasing the guys who like Rose)

The common belief is that Rose is now elite, but I don't think ex actually believes that. Hence his separation of Rose from Kobe/LeBron/KD/Wade.
(while still stating his viewpoint contrary to his earlier appeasement)

And yet he still calls him elite. Does that make sense to you?

I don't know. Maybe I'm wrong, and ex just couldn't articulate his viewpoint on Rose. I understand that it's not always easy. I have trouble with that all the time.

But to discredit what I said as "silly" is straight disrespectful IMO. And I'm certainly not disrespecting anyone here, because I know that my opinion can be wrong.



Moving on because maybe my point is not yet clear enough.

My top guys go like this (rankings, not groupings)
1. LeBron
2. Kobe
3. Durant
4. Rose
5. Wade
6. Dwight
7. CP3

I don't believe Rose is the best player in the league. That's two or three years of hard work away. However, I don't think it is at all ridiculous or "homeristic" or "due to hype/Kool-aid" to say that Rose was the best player in the NBA this season. He certainly had the talent, he led his oft injured team to the top seed in his conference and best overall record, and he showed an ability to score and lead in "clutch situations".

Tell me who had a better regular season?

Some people take the internet too seriously.

That entire post just to agree with me. Everyone else knew exactly what I was saying and took no offense for the most part.

[mKoz26]

Re: 2010-11 NBA Regular Season MVP Discussion

Exactly.

Glad to know you think you're better than me.

If there was any doubt before, you've just proved it to everyone.

My problem was not with your opinion, it was with the way you presented your opinion. And the way you continue to present your opinions. Maybe this is just "the internet", but I like to think Operation Sports is a place where rational, respectful, mature sports gamers and fans can talk sports gaming and organized sports. And most of the time, it proves to be just that.

When somebody shrugs off any opinion different from his own, laughs at them, calls them silly, whatever, it feels a lot more like ESPN's comment sections where insults, put downs, and e-ego posts run rampant. I prefer the respectful way.

[Bumi]

Re: 2010-11 NBA Regular Season MVP Discussion

Not to pick sides, but I understood his point completely. He feels that D. Rose is an elite player, but that he's a step below LeBron, Wade, Kobe, etc.

Or maybe I'm missing something?

[ex carrabba fan]

Re: 2010-11 NBA Regular Season MVP Discussion

Exactly.

Glad to know you think you're better than me.

If there was any doubt before, you've just proved it to everyone.

My problem was not with your opinion, it was with the way you presented your opinion. And the way you continue to present your opinions. Maybe this is just "the internet", but I like to think Operation Sports is a place where rational, respectful, mature sports gamers and fans can talk sports gaming and organized sports. And most of the time, it proves to be just that.

When somebody shrugs off any opinion different from his own, laughs at them, calls them silly, whatever, it feels a lot more like ESPN's comment sections where insults, put downs, and e-ego posts run rampant. I prefer the respectful way.

I think I'm better than you? Goodness.

Bro how was what I said offensive though? All I said was I think it's a bit homerish to think Rose is the best player. I didn't insult anyone directly or personally.

[mKoz26]

Re: 2010-11 NBA Regular Season MVP Discussion

Not to pick sides, but I understood his point completely. He feels that D. Rose is an elite player, but that he's a step below LeBron, Wade, Kobe, etc.

Or maybe I'm missing something?

It's the wording that throws me off.

Elite means part of the top group.

I have no problem with someone saying "Rose is a great player, even top 10 great, but he's a notch below Kobe, LeBron, Wade, and Kevin Durant."

Top 10 doesn't mean elite. Elite means he's worthy of being grouped, due to similar talent, production, or what have you, with his fellow group members at the top of basketball.

Groupings like Top 10 or 5 are only rankings, but if you call a player elite that means he's essentially interchangeable with the others within his elite grouping. Ex doesn't think Rose is.

[mKoz26]

Re: 2010-11 NBA Regular Season MVP Discussion

I think I'm better than you? Goodness.

Bro how was what I said offensive though? All I said was I think it's a bit homerish to think Rose is the best player. I didn't insult anyone directly or personally.

That's just another way of shrugging off a possibly (and seeing as though some agree with the Rose assessment, probably) debatable opinion.

You didn't refute it. You said something to the tune of "I don't like to use the h-word, but that's borderline homerism".

How would you respond if to everything you said I came back with " ex is at it again." Or "ex is such a damn _____ homer" and offering nothing else. Even "ex is a sheep to all the hype!".

Is that a fair response to your opinion?


EDIT: I also want to know, specifically, who the Chicago fan is that said Rose is the best player in the league. I haven't seen it. May have happened, but I haven't seen it.

[Bumi]

Re: 2010-11 NBA Regular Season MVP Discussion

It's the wording that throws me off.

Elite means part of the top group.

I have no problem with someone saying "Rose is a great player, even top 10 great, but he's a notch below Kobe, LeBron, Wade, and Kevin Durant."

Top 10 doesn't mean elite. Elite means he's worthy of being grouped, due to similar talent, production, or what have you, with his fellow group members at the top of basketball.

Groupings like Top 10 or 5 are only rankings, but if you call a player elite that means he's essentially interchangeable with the others within his elite grouping. Ex doesn't think Rose is.

I hear what you're saying, but....

Mercedes makes elite quality cars. They're a notch below Ferrari's.

Louisville is an elite basketball program. They're a notch below Duke.

And personally, if you're a top 10 NBA talent, I feel is if you're an elite basketball player. But that doesn't necessarily mean #10 is equivalent to #1.