NBA Lockout and Collective Bargaining Agreement Discussion

[da ThRONe]

Re: NBA Lockout and Collective Barganing Agreement Discussion

Lets make it simple. These are the undisputed facts:

- 16 NBA teams lost money last year. Whats disputed is the amount (Players say 150-180 mil, Owners say 300).

- Both sides agree that the long term survival of the league is in jeopardy if the players remained at 57%. (That makes the 57 to 53 drop by the players not a real concession. They realistically knew they would never keep the 57% just like the owners knew they would never get a hard cap. So if dropping the hard cap isnt a concession...than the 4% drop isnt either).

No one on this board has even written the words "Poor owners." What most are saying is that after reading all of the articles about the lockout, they think that the owners are being more reasonable and agree with what they are bringing to the table.

- I love the amnesty clause idea because it works well for the owners and the players (Owners get to remove bad contracts from their cap and players get to double dip contracts).

- I love the higher luxury cap (I'm a laker fan but I think its ridiculous that we get to spend almost 60 mil more than small market teams)

- I think that a fair deal would be a 51% BRI for the players (The players refuse to go down from 53%)

- I think sign and trades should be abolished.

These are all owners proposals. So thats why I'm with the owners. When you factor in that the players have no leverage now and there is a decent chance that the owners will get most or all of the things listed above...i blame the players.

I negotiate every day as a part of my job and a key to negotiating is knowing when you have leverage and when you dont. When you dont....you take the best deal available. The players missed that last night.

My problem is owners want more revenue while keeping safety guidelines in place to keep from making dumb decisions. The owners want it all so how are the players the greedy ones. In negotiations you have to give something that you previously had to get something else. What are the owners giving up from the last CBA?

[The 24th Letter]

So what happens when that person I hired promises me to perform the job to his FULL capabilities but instead he doesn't and his performance is awful, should I still continue to pay him even though he's doing a ****** job?
.

On the flip side, what happens when you work your *** off for a team, put the wear and tear on your body, and the owner does a ****** job of managing the team? Your supposed to suck it up because your making good $?

[aholbert32]

Re: NBA Lockout and Collective Barganing Agreement Discussion

How much you want to bet that guys like Nash, Melo, Amare (all who spoke out yesterday) were some of the stars who deferred their paychecks until this season?

[23]

Re: NBA Lockout and Collective Barganing Agreement Discussion

The main point of this though is that the players THIS TIME were so stubborn that they just nixed an opportunity to play basketball and still remain rich beyond their dreams....and this is after they had everything going for them for years off of somebody else's work


So at this point we're talking technicals when it could've been over long ago

[da ThRONe]

Re: NBA Lockout and Collective Barganing Agreement Discussion

Thats not how business works. I work for a cable network and not everybody can do the job I do. I dont have a guaranteed contract so if I just show up today but I do my job poorly, my boss can fire me and he has no financial obligation left. If my network closes shop, I will not be able to file a claim for damages because I dont have a guaranteed deal. An NBA player on the other hand can do all those things.

The owners are FAR from irrelevant. Their money gives players a place to showcase their talents, gets them to and from each venue, provides them with facilities to perfect their talents and provides them with top of the line health care to keep them healthy.

If ever owner sold their teams tomorrow the league wouldn't change one bit. If LeBron got hurt the league would completely change for that one year. Owners are as irrelevant in sports as anyis owner in any other business.

[OSUFan_88]

Re: NBA Lockout and Collective Barganing Agreement Discussion

My problem is owners want more revenue while keeping safety guidelines in place to keep from making dumb decisions. The owners want it all so how are the players the greedy ones. In negotiations you have to give something that you previously had to get something else. What are the owners giving up from the last CBA?

What guidelines were in place to keep owners from making dumb decisions?!

[aholbert32]

Re: NBA Lockout and Collective Barganing Agreement Discussion

My problem is owners want more revenue while keeping safety guidelines in place to keep from making dumb decisions. The owners want it all so how are the players the greedy ones. In negotiations you have to give something that you previously had to get something else. What are the owners giving up from the last CBA?

There is NOTHING the owners could give up.

It was a one sided CBA for the players. They got 57%. The Allen Houston clause went away in the last CBA. The midlevel exception. The luxury tax stayed the same.

Your argument is starting to make no sense. The CBA was heavily skewed towards players. Its agreed that teams are losing money. Its agreed that the current system isnt working well for competitive balance or financial stability. WHAT COULD THE OWNERS GIVE THEM? Agree to take away the luxury tax?.....There goes any chance a competitive balance. Agree to increase the midlevel?.....Both sides thought that was a problem. Give them more money from the BRI? What can they give them?

[da ThRONe]

Re: NBA Lockout and Collective Barganing Agreement Discussion

So what happens when that person I hired promises me to perform the job to his FULL capabilities but instead he doesn't and his performance is awful, should I still continue to pay him even though he's doing a ****** job?

Once again if you signed the contract that's on you. If you didn't do your homework before you signed the deal you are to blame.

In the NBA, it most certainly is.

Well let the owners hire replacement players and start the season. There's plenty of talented baller in the states allow that will kill themselves for the league minimal.

[Dame]

Re: NBA Lockout and Collective Barganing Agreement Discussion

How much you want to bet that guys like Nash, Melo, Amare (all who spoke out yesterday) were some of the stars who deferred their paychecks until this season?

I hope the agents told all theirs players to defer their payments and if they did i can see the entire season being canceled

[aholbert32]

Re: NBA Lockout and Collective Barganing Agreement Discussion

If ever owner sold their teams tomorrow the league wouldn't change one bit. If LeBron got hurt the league would completely change for that one year. Owners are as irrelevant in sports as anyis owner in any other business.

LOL...thats in incredibly naive statement. If every owner sold their teams to owners like Donald Sterling the league would change considerably. If Lebron got hurt for a year, people would still go to Heat games because of the other talent and it would affect the 29 other teams at all.

[da ThRONe]

Re: NBA Lockout and Collective Barganing Agreement Discussion

What guidelines were in place to keep owners from making dumb decisions?!

Hmmm max deals.

[King_B_Mack]

Re: NBA Lockout and Collective Barganing Agreement Discussion

The main point of this though is that the players THIS TIME were so stubborn that they just nixed an opportunity to play basketball and still remain rich beyond their dreams....and this is after they had everything going for them for years off of somebody else's work


So at this point we're talking technicals when it could've been over long ago

Can we stop with the someone else's work nonsense though 23. You're right, Jordan and that crew made it possible for the guys to get what they were getting, but that doesn't change a player's value to the game of basketball or whatever other sport is out there. No these guys are not Jordan or Pippen or Bird or Magic or Robinson or Barkley etc, but just because those guys are gone doesn't suddenly mean that people started showing up to see Dan Gilbert or Robert Sarver or Donald Sterling own.

[aholbert32]

Re: NBA Lockout and Collective Barganing Agreement Discussion

I hope the agents told all theirs players to defer their payments and if they did i can see the entire season being canceled

Most players cant afford to do that. If you are making 20 mil, its easy to live off 10 mil (plus endorsements). If you are living of 1.5 mil, its harder to live off 500k and defer 1 million to a year later.

[aholbert32]

Re: NBA Lockout and Collective Barganing Agreement Discussion

Also can we stop it with the simplistic "No one comes to watch James Dolan play" argument? That really has nothing to do with why players wont drop 2-3% to make a deal or accept a higher luxury tax.

[23]

Re: NBA Lockout and Collective Barganing Agreement Discussion

Can we stop with the someone else's work nonsense though 23. You're right, Jordan and that crew made it possible for the guys to get what they were getting, but that doesn't change a player's value to the game of basketball or whatever other sport is out there. No these guys are not Jordan or Pippen or Bird or Magic or Robinson or Barkley etc, but just because those guys are gone doesn't suddenly mean that people started showing up to see Dan Gilbert or Robert Sarver or Donald Sterling own.

I dont think the players value is worth the league collapsing, so no im not going to stop

This is not about value, this is all about stubborness... if players could survive with less than 57% doing more then, they can do it now

There is no season right now, not because of value, but because someone is cemented in his mind