NBA Lockout and Collective Bargaining Agreement Discussion

[clipperfan811]

Re: NBA Lockout and Collective Barganing Agreement Discussion

Agreed, but that's an area where the owners don't seem to get any blame. Sure the system needs tweaking, but that doesn't mean go crazy and give big money to above average guys. We are having a labor stoppage over something the franchise can put an end to themselves. Yet nobody is calling out the owners for being dumb. Let a player tweet something and we pick every line apart. You can't blast the players for being greedy/dumb for not accepting the deal, while ignoring the fact that frachises don't have enough sense to avoid giving a player of Lewis' caliber 20million a year. It goes both ways and IMO the player have given a large share to ensure the system is better while the owners haven't given up anything. Yet people still defend their stance.

We all keep going back and forth with this but most people are not putting the blame for the system failures squarely on the players. We're putting the blame on the players for not excepting a deal now which will only get worse as this drags out.

[The 24th Letter]

Agreed, but that's an area where the owners don't seem to get any blame. Sure the system needs tweaking, but that doesn't mean go crazy and give big money to above average guys. We are having a labor stoppage over something the franchise can put an end to themselves. Yet nobody is calling out the owners for being dumb. Let a player tweet something and we pick every line apart. You can't blast the players for being greedy/dumb for not accepting the deal, while ignoring the fact that frachises don't have enough sense to avoid giving a player of Lewis' caliber 20million a year. It goes both ways and IMO the player have given a large share to ensure the system is better while the owners haven't given up anything. Yet people still defend their stance.

I agree...but no one is saying the exact sentence: "the owners have no blame" so..."no ones saying that" I guess, lol.

and its not just us "internet forum guys" that see this....hell, there are people out there that think the players are "striking for more money"...smh, i just refuse to let the owners slide in this nonsense.

BOTH sides are dumb as far as im concerned....they both rub me as not wanting to get the job done from the jump...like why are you just NOW calling in a mediator?

this whole thing just makes me more upset at the league as a whole everyday it goes on.

[23]

Re: NBA Lockout and Collective Barganing Agreement Discussion

From what ESPN said, I read today... the mediator thing was in place some time ago...probably even before the ASG, can't remember exactly, IF they couldnt get something done

It was like their contingency plan

[23]

Re: NBA Lockout and Collective Barganing Agreement Discussion

-- Dennis Rodman says the owners are at fault in the NBA lockout, but the players should ease their demands to help end the dispute that has already cost the league the first two weeks of the season.

"I think the players should bow down," he said Thursday.

Rodman was a guest at the post-position draw at Woodbine Racetrack for Sunday's Pattison Canadian International, the most lucrative horse race in Canada.

"It's not the players' fault, it's the owners' fault and I think (the players) should give a little bit," the Hall of Famer said. "And that way, things will move on."

Rodman, a seven-time rebounding champion, was in the league in 1999 when the season was cut to 50 games because of a lockout. He questions the resolve of the players.

"Most players don't give a damn about the game," he said. "They want the money and all of a sudden they want unity. I'm not taking the owners' side. I think the players should look at themselves."

...........

[Altimus]

Re: NBA Lockout and Collective Barganing Agreement Discussion

Agreed, but that's an area where the owners don't seem to get any blame. Sure the system needs tweaking, but that doesn't mean go crazy and give big money to above average guys. We are having a labor stoppage over something the franchise can put an end to themselves. Yet nobody is calling out the owners for being dumb. Let a player tweet something and we pick every line apart. You can't blast the players for being greedy/dumb for not accepting the deal, while ignoring the fact that frachises don't have enough sense to avoid giving a player of Lewis' caliber 20million a year. It goes both ways and IMO the player have given a large share to ensure the system is better while the owners haven't given up anything. Yet people still defend their stance.

I don't want to seem too for the owners but the way I see it is this... most owners, not all, but a good number of owners just don't know the game. This is why teams have management for player decisions. The owners sign of on the deal but they are all advised by management. In the case of Rashard Lewis, Otis Smith is the one to blame. Should the owners do more homework, perhaps. But when you pay someone to do a job you pay them to do a solid job. Plus if you constantly refuse moves your GM and coach want to make then you're not going to find a GM or coach of quality to run your team. But in extreme situations like the Lewis contract then it should have been vetoed by the owner. Either way decisions like this are impacted by the current system. Overspend now or you'll be left with nothing.

Now last year's frenzy was another issue with how broke the system is. Here are some examples:

Hakim Warrick / $18,000,000 / 4 Years
Channing Frye / $30,000,000 / 5 Years
JJ Redick /$19,000,000 / 3 Years
Travis Outlaw / $35,000,000 / 5 Years
Drew Gooden / $32,000,000 / 5 Years
Mike Miller / $30,000,000 / 5 Years
David Lee / $80,000,000 / 6 Years
Brendan Haywood / $55,000,000 / 5 Years
Joe Johnson / $121,000,000 / 6 Years

Among others. Some of these players aren't worth half what they're getting paid. This is all because of the system in place. The other reason is the owners were convinced they were paying with monopoly money so they figured why not overspend? We'll get it back with a amnesty clause and by cutting down the BRI. They've already cut the BRI by 4% and I have no doubt they'll get more. Not to mention shorter contracts. Either way, they get the blame as well.

The bottom line is there is a lot of blame to go around and both parties are responsible because at the end of the day it's an agreement and contract by two parties. The old system needs help and we can all agree on this. The reason IMO players are getting more backlash because of their behavior. Their unwillingness to work it out. "United We Stand", Carmelo Anthony comments, Kevin Garnett theatrics, and so on. No one wants to lose pay but right now it is necessary for the life of this sport. People on the outside looking at this situation look at it as if normal people are getting cuts, why can't these millionaires?

[Court_vision]

Re: NBA Lockout and Collective Barganing Agreement Discussion

Watching the interview with Sterm.........man, I really doubt we are going to see ANY games this season. He's adamant the current soft cap doesn't work / players are adamant they won't accept a hard cap.

First time in all this I am starting to get a 'no season' vibe

http://www.nba.com/video/channels/nba_tv/2011/10/13/20111013_da_stern_int_full.nba/

[bigeastbumrush]

Re: NBA Lockout and Collective Barganing Agreement Discussion

"Most players don't give a damn about the game," he said. "They want the money and all of a sudden they want unity. I'm not taking the owners' side. I think the players should look at themselves."...........

Truth!!!

...

[Jasong7777]

Re: NBA Lockout and Collective Barganing Agreement Discussion

I wish they would just cancel the rest of the games so we can get on with our lives. Everyone knows there won't be a ****ing season this year. None of this, if they don't make progress then this x amount of games will be cancelled bull****. And yea i'm pissed.

[BunnyHardaway]

Re: NBA Lockout and Collective Barganing Agreement Discussion

JJ Redick /$19,000,000 / 3 Years

I don't see anything wrong with that contract. Not only is he worth it, but his salary decreases each year.

[OSUFan_88]

Re: NBA Lockout and Collective Barganing Agreement Discussion

I don't see anything wrong with that contract. Not only is he worth it, but his salary decreases each year.

...

I'm going to just say you were joking and move on...

[aholbert32]

Re: NBA Lockout and Collective Barganing Agreement Discussion

Watching the interview with Sterm.........man, I really doubt we are going to see ANY games this season. He's adamant the current soft cap doesn't work / players are adamant they won't accept a hard cap.

First time in all this I am starting to get a 'no season' vibe

http://www.nba.com/video/channels/nb..._int_full.nba/

I actually felt different. He gave on the hard cap. The players have to find a way to be happy with amore agressive luxury cap. If they can, then a deal is done. The ball is in the players' court.

[ProfessaPackMan]

Re: NBA Lockout and Collective Barganing Agreement Discussion

Agreed, but that's an area where the owners don't seem to get any blame. Sure the system needs tweaking, but that doesn't mean go crazy and give big money to above average guys. We are having a labor stoppage over something the franchise can put an end to themselves. Yet nobody is calling out the owners for being dumb. Let a player tweet something and we pick every line apart. You can't blast the players for being greedy/dumb for not accepting the deal, while ignoring the fact that frachises don't have enough sense to avoid giving a player of Lewis' caliber 20million a year. It goes both ways and IMO the player have given a large share to ensure the system is better while the owners haven't given up anything. Yet people still defend their stance.

Selective Reading.

Hey Pack, what was the deal that was offered in June? I've been following this closely but with so much that's gone on recently I can't recall what the terms were just before the Lockout began.

http://www.operationsports.com/forum...post2042511174

Start from there.

“I don’t think (the players) work that hard because most of the players don’t give a damn about the game

Church.

[Dice]

Re: NBA Lockout and Collective Barganing Agreement Discussion

Don't know if this has been posted here yet but it looks like round one of the league side of the battle has been won by the players. Stay tuned for round two.

http://www.nydailynews.com/sports/basketball/knicks/2011/10/14/2011-10-14_labor_ruling_buoys_nba_players.html

NBA Lockout Day 106: David Stern denied request to dismiss unfair labor practice
BY MITCH LAWRENCE
DAILY NEWS SPORTS WRITER

Friday, October 14th 2011, 4:00 AM



Keith Torrie/News
Madison Sqaure Garden staple Spike Lee may want to refund his season tickets, worth an estimated $3,600 per game, if the NBA Players and owners can't reach an agreement by Tuesday.
Locked-out NBA players believe they scored a major victory Wednesday when the National Labor Relations Board denied David Stern's request to have the union's charge of an unfair labor practice dismissed, although the players are a long way from seeing this tactic get them back onto the basketball court.

The NBA commissioner went before the NLRB on Wednesday seeking the dismissal, as first reported by the Daily News, but the NLRB decided to continue with the case, which the players union hopes will lead to the league being forced to restart operations and open the season under the previous collective bargaining rules.

"That is what Stern and his owners are worried about," insisted a union legal source.

Perhaps, but first, the players' case has several more steps to go, and it's being viewed by legal experts as a long shot to help them break the 106-day-old lockout.

"This is part of the theater of collective bargaining, and it's one of the few weapons that the players have to put pressure on the owners during the lockout," said Jay Krupin, a Washington, D.C.-based attorney with Epstein Becker Green and an expert on the workings of the NLRB. "The probability of an injunction being issued to stop the lockout is remote. But right now, having the NLRB look at its charge is one of the few things the players have going for them."

In hoping to gain some leverage in its uphill battle against the owners, the union has been trying to get the NLRB to expedite its case. An NLRB source said it will be given "high priority" when it soon goes to its board in Washington, D.C., but would not offer a timetable.

For the players to win and force the NBA to reopen, the NLRB would have to issue a complaint against the owners, ruling that the league did engage in unfair labor practices. Then it would have to convince a federal court that, among other things, the players have been caused irreparable damage during the lockout.

At that point, the only remedy for the NBA would be to file an appeal, which it would have to lose. If all that happens, then the NBA would reopen, with free agency being conducted under the old system, along with the players getting back the old 57-43 split of revenue they enjoyed in the last collective bargaining agreement.

Krupin predicted that the players' case will never get that far. The NLRB has a history of taking its time in hopes that the two sides return to the table and work out a deal. The owners and players have agreed to resume talks Tuesday with George Cohen, a federal mediator who sat in on some of the NFL talks last spring during pro football's lockout. The two sides will not sit at the bargaining table in Manhattan, but will stay in separate rooms while Cohen engages in shuttle diplomacy.

The two sides are deadlocked, with players asking for a 53-47 split of revenue and owners looking for the same division of $4.3 billion in their favor. The money split amounts to $240 million per year, or $2.4 billion over a 10-year deal.

While that split is significant, there is an even larger gulf between the two sides on the issue of what system will be used to divide the money. Owners are pressing for a harder salary cap with more restrictions, while players are seeking to keep many of the features of the old soft cap.

HOLIDAY JEERS?
The lockout is officially threatening the NBA traditional Christmas Day games, including the Knicks-Celtics matchup at the Garden, with Stern in the role of The Grinch.

The commissioner said Thursday on WFAN that he sees almost six weeks of additional cancellations to the regular-season schedule, including the league's Christmas Day tripleheader, if the owners and players can't make a deal Tuesday when the two sides meet with the mediator.

Stern has already canceled the first two weeks of the season, from Nov. 1-14, totaling 100 games.

Buy New York Sports Tickets

[ProfessaPackMan]

Re: NBA Lockout and Collective Barganing Agreement Discussion

Let's say that does happen and they force the Owners to end the Lockout, couldn't the Owners then just file an appeal(kind of like what happened in the NFL)and then the Lockout would be back on while they're reviewing the appeal?

[Dice]

Re: NBA Lockout and Collective Barganing Agreement Discussion

I think in the NFL the lockout was still uplifted while the appeals court reviewed the case.

The appeals will be either round two or three of this fight.