NBA Lockout and Collective Bargaining Agreement Discussion

[aholbert32]

Re: NBA Lockout and Collective Barganing Agreement Discussion

Please, Duncan and Garnett both have serious, ailing and troublesome knee issues. They likely have one or two productive years left in their bodies, especially with how both were outplayed in the playoffs. I love both those guys and would hate to see their careers ended do to greed (both union and owner) and especially when so many fans are struggling economically. They all are being shortsighted and will hurt the league short-term and long-term, IMO.

The league will be back to 1999-2007 level attendance, interest and television ratings. They had their biggest season during a down economy and follow it up with labor strife and cancelled games/season. Stupid.....

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LOL! That is insane. 1999 level? In a recession? Are you serious? Season ticket renewals have been dropping for the past 5 yrs. Yes, last year was a great year but get real.

[RedSceptile]

Re: NBA Lockout and Collective Barganing Agreement Discussion

If you compare the Raptors to the rest of the league, they were 19th in attendance last season. Only the top 8 teams made a profit. Top 15 didn't lose too much, but the bottom half were huge losers. 19th in the league is ok if the league is doing well, but the NBA just wasn't doing well at all.

That was this season. Look at this past decade on ESPN for reference.

[Dice]

Re: NBA Lockout and Collective Barganing Agreement Discussion

So, we are saying that the current system is not broken then? That as long as the BRI changes, the system would work fine?

Not what I said. Just quoting Wojo and I understand his position. Stern keeps talking about how the owners are making these concessions BUT it's the players who have to come down on their share of the BRI. They keep talking about how they conceded the hard cap but that's not a concession because the hard cap was never in place. It's typical lawyer speak.

[OSUFan_88]

Re: NBA Lockout and Collective Barganing Agreement Discussion

Not what I said. Just quoting Wojo and I understand his position. Stern keeps talking about how the owners are making these concessions BUT it's the players who have to come down on their share of the BRI. They keep talking about how they conceded the hard cap but that's not a concession because the hard cap was never in place. It's typical lawyer speak.

They conceeded on their demands.

How is this hard to understand? The owners said "okay, we can back off on the hard cap."

What did the players ever do?

[authentic]

Re: NBA Lockout and Collective Barganing Agreement Discussion

And for the record, can we replace "players" with "Top 10% of the Players" because they're really the ones who don't care if a season is lost or not.

Ask the other 90% if they can go a year or two with no Basketball and I guarantee they'll hesistate before answering.

I think it's more about league status and how many years a player has played. Someone like, oh I don't know, Grant Hill, a guy who has been in the league forever but isn't one of the top players. He is set, but a player that's been in the league 1 year and is pretty close to being elite is more effected even though he's a top 10% player.

[For The Win]

Re: NBA Lockout and Collective Barganing Agreement Discussion

They conceeded on their demands.

How is this hard to understand? The owners said "okay, we can back off on the hard cap."

What did the players ever do?

Went from 57% of the revenue to 53% of the revenue.

[J_Posse]

And for the record, can we replace "players" with "Top 10% of the Players" because they're really the ones who don't care if a season is lost or not.

Ask the other 90% if they can go a year or two with no Basketball and I guarantee they'll hesistate before answering.

LOL

Top 10% sounds pretty fimilar, maybe we should get together and protest outside the Verizon Center. I'll even dress up as "NBA player zombie."

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[OSUFan_88]

Re: NBA Lockout and Collective Barganing Agreement Discussion

If early reports correct, I'm baffled that so-called system issues are the cause. Somebody's overplaying their hand.

http://twitter.com/#!/johnhollinger/status/123593230121046016

Totally agree with Hollinger.

How are these system issues such a big cause.

Either the owners are saying that they think they can break the union or the union wants to just show that they aren't afraid of the owners.

Either way, it's pathetic.

[OSUFan_88]

Re: NBA Lockout and Collective Barganing Agreement Discussion

Went from 57% of the revenue to 53% of the revenue.

Owners went from 46% to 50%

[VanCitySportsGuy]

Re: NBA Lockout and Collective Barganing Agreement Discussion

Kind of off topic but Toronto isn't a small market it's actualy done really well financially in terms of attendance and T.V. viewings.

For some reason a lot of American NBA fans continue to think Toronto is a small market team when it's the opposite.

The Raptors play in the 4th or 5th largest market in the NBA (bigger than "large" markets like Washington and Atlanta). They have the same owners as the Leafs (a team that prints money). A large percentage of their games are on national TV.

The Raptors have been in the league since 95 and have won a single playoff series in franchise history. For a terrible franchise, it's amazing that their attendance is decent.

[Dice]

Re: NBA Lockout and Collective Barganing Agreement Discussion

They conceeded on their demands.

How is this hard to understand? The owners said "okay, we can back off on the hard cap."

What did the players ever do?

The owners are conceding something intangible. Something that never existed. A demand is all that it is, a demand. An abstract idea.

The players were going down on their BRI. They were giving up actual money. They were giving up something that was more concrete. How is that hard to understand?

[OSUFan_88]

Re: NBA Lockout and Collective Barganing Agreement Discussion

Union disputes league claim that there was no progress on system. Says contract length, raises, etc were all working toward resolution.

Aldridge

http://twitter.com/#!/daldridgetnt/status/123593776433332224

So...someone is lying here.

Fisher says decertification still not at top of player wish list.

Also from David.

Good to see they aren't total morons.

[ProfessaPackMan]

Re: NBA Lockout and Collective Barganing Agreement Discussion

I think it's more about league status and how many years a player has played. Someone like, oh I don't know, Grant Hill, a guy who has been in the league forever but isn't one of the top players. He is set, but a player that's been in the league 1 year and is pretty close to being elite is more effected even though he's a top 10% player.

Oh I agree.

But let's be realistic, the ones in the Top 10% are the ones who either have the big time endorsements, big time contracts or both so those dudes MAY be good to sit a year out.

But if you're not in that Top 10% or you're a vet who's been in the league for years but have Antoine Walker with your money....well good luck holding on in this crappy economy.

And at this point, I'm just counting the days before I hear the Andray Baltches' and the JR Smiths of the World find a way to slip up and get their name in the News for non Basketball related issues that aren't good.

[authentic]

Re: NBA Lockout and Collective Barganing Agreement Discussion

For some reason a lot of American NBA fans continue to think Toronto is a small market team when it's the opposite.

The Raptors play in the 4th or 5th largest market in the NBA (bigger than "large" markets like Washington and Atlanta). They have the same owners as the Leafs (a team that prints money). A large percentage of their games are on national TV.

The Raptors have been in the league since 95 and have won a single playoff series in franchise history. For a terrible franchise, it's amazing that their attendance is decent.

If the Raptors are the 4th or 5th best market, who is below them? Also, if their market is so good and their ownership is so good, why do they never sign a player of any relevance? I'd say their 15-20th best market with a great fan base, for them to watch games, I'm amazed.

Biggest markets:
Chicago
New York
LA
Boston
New Jersey
Detroit
Miami

Those are all way higher markets than Toronto. Top 15, no...top 20, maybe.

[J_Posse]

LOL! That is insane. 1999 level? In a recession? Are you serious? Season ticket renewals have been dropping for the past 5 yrs. Yes, last year was a great year but get real.

Dude, I meant in a bad way. They'll be back to square one trying to endear themselves to the public, again. The league will need to double its efforts in building the brand, in particular in small, floundering markets like Charlotte, Sacramento and Minnesota. They've all **** themselves over and will pay the price over the next 10 or more years.

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