Official POST-LOCKOUT Player Movement Thread (Trades, FAs, etc)

[bigeastbumrush]

Re: Official POST-LOCKOUT Player Movement Thread (Trades, FAs, etc)

LARRY BIRD EXCEPTION -- This is the best known exception. Players who qualify for this exception are called "Qualifying Veteran Free Agents" in the CBA, and this exception is formally a component of the Veteran Free Agent exception. This exception enables teams to exceed the salary cap to re-sign their own free agents, up to the player's maximum salary. To qualify for this exception the player essentially must play for three seasons without being waived or changing teams as a free agent (although there are nuances to this rule, which are explained in question number 26). This means a player can obtain "Bird rights" by playing under three consecutive one-year contracts, a single contract of at least three years, or any equivalent combination. It also means that when a player is traded, his Bird rights are traded with him, and his new team can use the Bird exception to re-sign him. These contracts can be up to six years in length. A player can receive raises up to 10.5% of the salary in the first season of the contract.

The 1983 CBA introduced the modern salary cap, and with it the provision allowing teams to exceed the cap to re-sign their own players. It is commonly believed that this exception acquired its common moniker because Larry Bird was the the first such player to be re-signed. However, this appears to be apocryphal, as Bird signed a seven-year contract in 1983 (before this provision took effect), and did not sign another until 1988.

There is one more limit to the maximum salary that can be given using the Larry Bird exception. If the player was a first round draft pick, just completed the third year of his rookie scale contract, and his team did not invoke its team option for the fourth season (see question number 42), then this exception cannot be used to re-sign him to a salary greater than he would have received had the team exercised its option. In other words, teams can't decline an option year in order to get around the salary scale and give the player more money.

Did Tyson Chandler resign with the Mavs?

[Drewski]

Re: Official POST-LOCKOUT Player Movement Thread (Trades, FAs, etc)

I'm confused as to what Tyson Chandler has to do with that quote, in the context of OKC and what is being discussed here.

[bigeastbumrush]

Re: Official POST-LOCKOUT Player Movement Thread (Trades, FAs, etc)

I'm confused as to what Tyson Chandler has to do with that quote, in the context of OKC and what is being discussed here.

You posted the Bird Rule as to say that it may somehow guarantee a free agent resigning with his own team, no?

[Drewski]

Re: Official POST-LOCKOUT Player Movement Thread (Trades, FAs, etc)

You posted the Bird Rule as to say that it may somehow guarantee a free agent resigning with his own team, no?

Absolutely not. I posted it as to explain how and why OKC can go over the cap in order to still sign Ibaka and Harden.

[PrettyT11]

Re: Official POST-LOCKOUT Player Movement Thread (Trades, FAs, etc)

Drewski I know all about the Bird rule and what it does but honestly that has nothing to do with my point. The Bird rule only shows how they could resign them and go over the cap. The article that was shown for Westbrook signing his deal tried to imply that there would possibly still be cap room left for them to sign and be under the cap. The math that i showed shows that it is very very unlikely for them to be signed without going over and possibly way over. That was the whole point of the post. You keep bringing up the Bird rule has nothing to do with that at all.

Just becuase you sign a player using the Bird rule doesn't mean you don't have to pay the lux tax. Just look at your Lakers as a perfect example. They have used this rule but they are still paying the lux tax and will be as long as they stay over that threshold. That is what the Thunder are trying to avoid. My math shows it might be hard for them to do so.

[Drewski]

Re: Official POST-LOCKOUT Player Movement Thread (Trades, FAs, etc)

Drewski I know all about the Bird rule and what it does but honestly that has nothing to do with my point. The Bird rule only shows how they could resign them and go over the cap. The article that was shown for Westbrook signing his deal tried to imply that there would possibly still be cap room left for them to sign. The math that i showed shows that it is very very unlikely for them to be signed without going over. That was the whole point of the post. You keep bringing up the Bird rule has nothing to do with that at all.

Just becuase you sign a player using the Bird rule doesn't mean you don't have to pay the lux tax. Just look at your Lakers as a perfect example. They have used this rule but they are still paying the lux tax and will be as long as they stay over that threshold. That is what the Thunder are trying to avoid. My math shows it might be hard for them to do so.

So what youre telling me is OKC will just let Harden and Ibaka walk away, despite how important they are to the franchises future, because they want to remain a budget team despite having a great city to support them, tons of national coverage, and a serious chance to dominate the Western Conference? Seems like a lot of speculation one way, or the other.

What we do know is it is still very possible for them to sign Ibaka and Harden within the restrictions of the NBA CBA, partly due to the great extension they got on Perkins, and WB taking about 5% less than he could have asked for. They locked in the best player at the PG position they could likely have on their roster (top 5 PG in all likelihood), and left themselves room to sign the "other guys".

[Altimus]

Re: Official POST-LOCKOUT Player Movement Thread (Trades, FAs, etc)

I'm sure ESPN is ticked that this move went down, since they always try and play up the angle that Westbrook and Durant can't play together long-term.

Smart move by OKC, as they should be able to keep its starting core in tact for years to come.

Oh no doubt, I remember early in the season where ESPN tried their best to hype up that so called "fight."

As mentioned, good deal for both sides. Especially for OKC.

[PrettyT11]

Re: Official POST-LOCKOUT Player Movement Thread (Trades, FAs, etc)

So what youre telling me is OKC will just let Harden and Ibaka walk away, despite how important they are to the franchises future, because they want to remain a budge team despite having a great city to support them, tons of national coverage, and a serious chance to dominate the Western Conference?

No I'm not telling you none of that. Not once I have I said they will just let guys walk away. Let's not put words in my mouth or try to imply anything. My whole post was about how could what these so called reporters or whatever they are be possible by looking at the numbers. The numbers simply state that it is unlikely. I mean hell OKC is already over the cap now for this year.

OKC never said they wanted to be a budget team. Clearly giving Durant his deal and now Westbrook his shows that. They said they didn't want to hit the lux tax like most if not all teams now are saying. Being under or over the cap and being a lux tax team is a huge difference. OKC can afford to be over the cap some but I don't see them being able to afford the lux tax(especially with some new rules in place) and they don't either or else they wouldn't be saying it.

It all is really going to come down to how much over they are willing to go and what kind of offers those guys are going to get. That is all I have been saying from the start of this whole thing.

[Drewski]

Re: Official POST-LOCKOUT Player Movement Thread (Trades, FAs, etc)

No I'm not telling you none of that. Not once I have I said they will just let guys walk away. Let's not put words in my mouth or try to imply anything. My whole post was about how could what these so called reporters or whatever they are be possible by looking at the numbers. The numbers simply state that it is unlikely. I mean hell OKC is already over the cap now for this year.

OKC never said they wanted to be a budget team. Clearly giving Durant his deal and now Westbrook his shows that. They said they didn't want to hit the lux tax like most if not all teams now are saying. Being under or over the cap and being a lux tax team is a huge difference. OKC can afford to be over the cap some but I don't see them being able to afford the lux tax(especially with some new rules in place) and they don't either or else they wouldn't be saying it.

It all is really going to come down to how much over they are willing to go and what kind of offers those guys are going to get. That is all I have been saying from the start of this whole thing.

Durants deal was a great deal, that's hardly an all-in financial move. The only reason it was kicked up was because of the "Derrick Rose Rule", which certainly was an unexpected speed bump that was a by product of the new CBA. Of course he got paid the way he did. One way or the other, it really doesn't matter what the "reporters" have to say, they are still in a financial situation where they can afford Ibaka and Harden, and the only debate would be whether the FO wants to pay the Lux Tax. Keep in mind that the Luxury Tax line last year was $70 million (the point where they begin paying Lux Tax, salary cap still remains $58 million. I cannot for the life of me find the luxury tax line for 2011-2012 or anything beyond last years. Generally cap limits go up as each year progresses). This year they are locked in for $56 million, still under the Luxury Tax and Salary cap for that matter. Throw in WB's additional 8-9 million (He's making 5 million atm), and that puts them at $66 million, still under the Luxury Tax line. They may have to dip into the Lux Tax to get Ibaka/Harden, but that is in their FO's hands.

[PrettyT11]

Re: Official POST-LOCKOUT Player Movement Thread (Trades, FAs, etc)

Durants deal was a great deal, that's hardly an all-in financial move. The only reason it was kicked up was because of the "Derrick Rose Rule", which certainly was an unexpected speed bump that was a by product of the new CBA. Of course he got paid the way he did.

This doesn't really have anything to do with what I posted. I knew all of the info quite a while ago. I never said anything about Durant's deal at all.

One way or the other, it really doesn't matter what the "reporters" have to say, they are still in a financial situation where they can afford Ibaka and Harden, and the only debate would be whether the FO wants to pay the Lux Tax.

That's funny cause as soon as they said it some of you guys was like oh man see they room for all of them now. Now your saying it doesn't matter. I have been saying from the start the question was if they want to go into the lux tax. Not if they should try to keep them all.

Keep in mind that the Luxury Tax line last year was $70 million (the point where they begin paying Lux Tax, salary cap still remains $58 million. I cannot for the life of me find the luxury tax line for 2011-2012 or anything beyond last years. Generally cap limits go up as each year progresses).

I know all of this my man. This is nothing new to me. The lux tax for this year is basically the same at around 70.3 million. Chances are the cap is going to stay the same for next year as well or at least it has been said as such.

This year they are locked in for $56 million, still under the Luxury Tax and Salary cap for that matter.

Actually with the boost Durant got from the Rose rule pushed them over the cap this year.

Throw in WB's additional 8-9 million (He's making 5 million atm), and that puts them at $66 million, still under the Luxury Tax line. They may have to dip into the Lux Tax to get Ibaka/Harden, but that is in their FO's hands.

See now we are finally getting on the same page. I have been saying this since the first post was put out about Westbrook possibly getting the max. Now you see that it won't be as easy to resign those guys like that article tried to imply this mourning/afternoon. The cap room they are talking about simply isn't there. That is all i was saying from the jump.

[Drewski]

Re: Official POST-LOCKOUT Player Movement Thread (Trades, FAs, etc)

This doesn't really have anything to do with what I posted. I knew all of the info quite a while ago. I never said anything about Durant's deal at all.



That's funny cause as soon as they said it some of you guys was like oh man see they room for all of them now. Now your saying it doesn't matter. I have been saying from the start the question was if they want to go into the lux tax. Not if they should try to keep them all.




I know all of this my man. This is nothing new to me. The lux tax for this year is basically the same at around 70.3 million. Chances are the cap is going to stay the same for next year as well or at least it has been said as such.




Actually with the boost Durant got from the Rose rule pushed them over the cap. That really has nothing to do with what we are discussing now though.



See now we are finally getting on the same page. I have been saying this since the first post was put out about Westbrook possibly getting the max. Now you see that it won't be as easy to resign those guys like that article tried to imply this mourning/afternoon. The cap room they are talking about simply isn't there. That is all i was saying from the jump.

It will be very easy to sign them if they should choose to. They have full cap capabilities. It is whether they feel Harden and Ibaka are worth it, and if their core is the right pieces. They have this full season, and part of next season, to really get a grasp of where they are as a team. Also, keep in mind they have guys coming off of their books that aren't nearly as valuable as Harden/Ibaka, that surely will be sacrificed in order to try and keep their salary figures lower (Nazr Mohammad, Nate Robinson is still calculated in their salary for this year, guys like that. They will clearly condense the excess salary they currently have on the books to be put towards the guys that they intend to continue to run with. Condense and optimize).

If their FO feels they can win a title with their core, they will have the ability to sign those guys. If they don't, they can then start tweaking their roster and salary figures to reflect that. Currently, they don't really have to worry about that, because they just re-signed their franchise PG and Harden/Ibaka are still on rookie contracts. Especially considering Maynor is hurt, WB becomes even more important without having really any other way to get a suitable PG (short of a straight PG swap somewhere, which doesn't look to be in the cards currently). If OKC breaks up the core over luxury tax reasons that can legitimately win a title, then that's one of the minimal mistakes OKC's FO will have made and I'm sure many a NBA enthusiast will harp on the OKC FO for being cheap when they can be winning titles. If they can't win a title with those guys, they can still make the moves they have to, and no harm no foul. This is very clearly their best option, locking up WB and still having time to evaluate the rest of their options. If WB isn't their guy, they still have him as trade value. If he is, then they have him on their roster for the foreseeable future.

[DJ]

Re: Official POST-LOCKOUT Player Movement Thread (Trades, FAs, etc)

LOL@ "competitive fire".

All of those teams (Pistons, Lakers, Celtics) had veteran players to keep the young guys in check.

Please come up with a more valid comparison.

Not sure why you think that's funny. All I'm saying is that 20 years ago, an argument between Bird and McHale wouldn't have been made such a huge deal as it is today.

Those guys all had a passion for winning. The Durant-Westbrook tiff was over what? Westbrook wanted a teammate to take an open J, which would help his team win a game. Sure, he could've handled it another way, but in the heat of the moment, his emotions came out and when KD tried to talk to Russ, he didn't want to hear it. I'm sure after the game, things were cool between all parties.

It's clear to me that Westbrook and KD want to win, and Westbrook obviously feels his best chance to win a ring is in OKC, so it just shows that these arguments are overblown.

[ProfessaPackMan]

Re: Official POST-LOCKOUT Player Movement Thread (Trades, FAs, etc)

LOL@ "competitive fire".

All of those teams (Pistons, Lakers, Celtics) had veteran players to keep the young guys in check.

Please come up with a more valid comparison.

Why does he need to come up with more valid one? Because he was right with this one as well?

It will be very easy to sign them if they should choose to. They have full cap capabilities. It is whether they feel Harden and Ibaka are worth it, and if their core is the right pieces. They have this full season, and part of next season, to really get a grasp of where they are as a team. Also, keep in mind they have guys coming off of their books that aren't nearly as valuable as Harden/Ibaka, that surely will be sacrificed in order to try and keep their salary figures lower (Nazr Mohammad, Nate Robinson is still calculated in their salary for this year, guys like that. They will clearly condense the excess salary they currently have on the books to be put towards the guys that they intend to continue to run with. Condense and optimize).

If their FO feels they can win a title with their core, they will have the ability to sign those guys. If they don't, they can then start tweaking their roster and salary figures to reflect that. Currently, they don't really have to worry about that, because they just re-signed their franchise PG and Harden/Ibaka are still on rookie contracts. Especially considering Maynor is hurt, WB becomes even more important without having really any other way to get a suitable PG (short of a straight PG swap somewhere, which doesn't look to be in the cards currently). If OKC breaks up the core over luxury tax reasons that can legitimately win a title, then that's one of the minimal mistakes OKC's FO will have made and I'm sure many a NBA enthusiast will harp on the OKC FO for being cheap when they can be winning titles. If they can't win a title with those guys, they can still make the moves they have to, and no harm no foul. This is very clearly their best option, locking up WB and still having time to evaluate the rest of their options. If WB isn't their guy, they still have him as trade value. If he is, then they have him on their roster for the foreseeable future.

1000 likes for this post.

Except the one thing is they can't trade him at all once this contract kicks in but other than that, at least me and you are on the same page.

[TheMatrix31]

Re: Official POST-LOCKOUT Player Movement Thread (Trades, FAs, etc)

So glad Russell Westbrook re-upped. Would have been pissed if the Suns showed even the slightest interest in wasting cap space on him.

[CMH]

Someones's $90 million problem.

I get it from OKC's perspective but not buying this guy being worth it.

Also, he did not sign for less. No way Westbrook makes All NBA this year. This was the most he was gonna make. He took the max money and will probably chuck it up without much thought.


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