Official POST-LOCKOUT Player Movement Thread (Trades, FAs, etc)

[Drewski]

What option did they have besides a pg swap if OKC's only issue is Westbrook, let him walk for what? A crack at Kirk Hinrich in free agency? They couldn't upgrade at that position so they signed their best option.

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[ProfessaPackMan]

Re: Official POST-LOCKOUT Player Movement Thread (Trades, FAs, etc)

And those chemistry issues can be easily solved, can they not? What's the other option to fix that? Split them up?

I mean they so what they fight, what competitive players/teammates DON'T fight? That got blown up out of proportion more than it should because at the time, it was made out as if it never happened before. And IMO that's where all this noise about him came from, which sucks unfortunately.

You're right in that they don't have a true veteran(Perkins is one but not in the truer sense of the word)but don't you also think that if Presti thought it was as bad as WE think, he would've addressed it by now? I mean hell, he still does have time seeing how it's only Week 4 of the season.

And if this team doesn't get it done at all then you know what...at least they went out swinging and being aggressive in trying to get what they want, which is something not a lot of teams can say or have the assets to do so. And that'll say alot especially for a small market team like them.

[PrettyT11]

Re: Official POST-LOCKOUT Player Movement Thread (Trades, FAs, etc)

Keep in mind their max is different. Contract figures scale with years played in the league. Westbrook is worth it at a position that has a ton of elite players currently. And apparently it left them with flexibility to still grab Ibaka and Harden. Bird rights to guys that have always been on their roster, makes going over the cap possible. The Thunder seems to have decided this the core they want because otherwise Westbrook would have had the ability to walk, not a good idea to lose him for nothing. Only thing they could have done was push for a PG swap somewhere since if this is their logic, they don't need a starting position upgrade elsewhere with Perk, Ibaka, Durant, Hardenflosha as they are confident this is the direction the franchise has been going and is staying.

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I know that the money he makes and they make is different. I know all about how the contract things work. I was speaking in general tearms of players who have gotten the max. Maybe I should have been more clear in my post. For what it is worth I would take Westbrook over all of those guys I named. i was just speaking in terms of guys who got the max and wasn't worth it.

Right, I'm the one saying that Westbrook will never get better or that they're better off with Maynor and Ibaka than they are Westbrook or that they shouldn't pay him because then they can't sign Harden and Ibaka. But i'm reaching LOL.

He took the smaller offer that allows the team to offer BOTH Harden and Ibaka contracts even though most here assumed that he would only go for the $94 Mil deal. So in other words, HE took less money when he could've waited til the Offseason for somebody else to give him that deal and in which everyone here would've said, "Oh, he doesn't care about winning and the team, he just wants to get paid". And from what he did, that don't sound like a selfish player to me or somebody who doesn't want to get better.

I mean you're already putting him in the Joe Johnson, Amar'e and Rashard Lewis category in which they've already reached their peak and won't get any better.

What did YOU want him to do? Take the vet's minimum or just sign a bunch of one year deals until he retires?

Their FO(especially Sam Presti) is known around the league as one of the best around so what makes anybody they won't be able to lock up Harden and/or Ibaka?

But hey, it's a bad contract and he'll never get any better and the team is better off with a one leg Eric Maynor(no offense Tehova)than they are with Westbrook(not saying you said this personally).

Again, it left them with flexibility to sign Harden AND Ibaka and isn't this what ya'll WANTED them to do? Or is it just get rid of Westbrook at all costs?

Actually he didn't take less money. It isn't a lock that he would have made all NBA. That's the only way he could have hit 94 million. He got the most money that could possibly be put on the table right now.

I already stated what kind of deal he should get and what would work better for the team. Never once said he should take league minimums or anything of the such. i just don't think he is worth 25 percent of the cap and I'm not the only one.

It remains to be seen if they will be able to resign all of those guys. If they can then great. But just simple math skills and a look at what other players at their position is getting makes it seem very unlikely. I also don't jump to believe what one dude says in an article without looking at the numbers. Had he took a deal like Rondo's though then none of it would matter and they would be able to sign them all which was my original point in the first place.

[PrettyT11]

Re: Official POST-LOCKOUT Player Movement Thread (Trades, FAs, etc)

And let's say OKC wins a Championship or two in the near future, what makes ya'll think they won't mind going into the Luxury Tax? You gotta spend to win in today's NBA, you're not going to win being the cheapest team in the league or being afraid to spend some money.

They already said they want no part of the lux tax. The rules for it have changed and the tax hits a lot harder than it did before. They won't be able to afford it really.

I could see them going over but not lux tax over.

Be fair now because his contract is nowhere near as bad as those names. Hell, if some of those guys had THIS contract, they'd be getting less grief from people.

I agree with that. Most of their grief is pointed at the front office and that is where my problem with the deal was at not at Westbrook. Again i should have made that point a little more clear.

[bigeastbumrush]

Re: Official POST-LOCKOUT Player Movement Thread (Trades, FAs, etc)

And those chemistry issues can be easily solved, can they not? What's the other option to fix that? Split them up?

I mean they so what they fight, what competitive players/teammates DON'T fight? That got blown up out of proportion more than it should because at the time, it was made out as if it never happened before. And IMO that's where all this noise about him came from, which sucks unfortunately.

You're right in that they don't have a true veteran(Perkins is one but not in the truer sense of the word)but don't you also think that if Presti thought it was as bad as WE think, he would've addressed it by now? I mean hell, he still does have time seeing how it's only Week 4 of the season.

And if this team doesn't get it done at all then you know what...at least they went out swinging and being aggressive in trying to get what they want, which is something not a lot of teams can say or have the assets to do so. And that'll say alot especially for a small market team like them.

Can the chemistry issues be solved- I have no idea. And I'd hate to see the chemistry issues keep rearing themselves at the most critical times when it all counts.

Out of all the teams in the West...I'd love to see OKC win it all. But I don't think they can get it done with him at PG. And it has nothing to do with his skill level.

What would I rather have them do? At the very least let him play out the rest of this season. Then make a decision in the summer.

They're saying there's no opt-out clause in his deal so this is it.

[ProfessaPackMan]

Re: Official POST-LOCKOUT Player Movement Thread (Trades, FAs, etc)

Actually he didn't take less money. It isn't a lock that he would have made all NBA. That's the only way he could have hit 94 million. He got the most money that could possibly be put on the table right now

Ok.

He took the lowest offer that was available to him RIGHT NOW.

As far as the thing with those other max guys I already explained it before. maybe I should have spelled it out better for you guys so there wouldn't be some much putting words in my mouth but whatever. You are one of the last guys i would expect to do that but it is what it is. I would just like one of you to show me where i said any of this you guys are implying I said.

Ok so out of the guys you mentioned, who is worth the max and who isn't? I'm just trying to see from YOUR POV where the comparisons are between them and Westbrook while keeping in mind that we can't compare contracts because they're contract situations are completely different.

I already stated what kind of deal he should get and what would work better for the team. Never once said he should take league minimums or anything of the such. i just don't think he is worth 25 percent of the cap and I'm not the only one.

Ok so let's put it like this: He shouldn't be making more than CP3, Deron(?) or Rose. Or at least making nowhere near what those guys are currently making or will eventually be making in the future, am I correct on that?

It remains to be seen if they will be able to resign all of those guys. If they can then great. But just simple math skills and a look at what other players at their position is getting makes it seem very unlikely. I also don't jump to believe what one dude says in an article without looking at the numbers. Had he took a deal like Rondo's though then none of it would matter and they would be able to sign them all which was my original point in the first place

Well luckily, it takes more than just simple math skills to work in a Pro Sports Front Office, don't you agree?

[ProfessaPackMan]

Re: Official POST-LOCKOUT Player Movement Thread (Trades, FAs, etc)

Can the chemistry issues be solved- I have no idea. And I'd hate to see the chemistry issues keep rearing themselves at the most critical times when it all counts.

Out of all the teams in the West...I'd love to see OKC win it all. But I don't think they can get it done with him at PG. And it has nothing to do with his skill level.

What would I rather have them do? At the very least let him play out the rest of this season. Then make a decision in the summer.

They're saying there's no opt-out clause in his deal so this is it.

They're also saying that he wanted $94 Mil, so he basically took an $18 Mil dollar paycut.

[ProfessaPackMan]

Re: Official POST-LOCKOUT Player Movement Thread (Trades, FAs, etc)

More on the Westbrook deal:

Spoiler

Chris Mannix: Good deal for both sides. Westbrook gets paid, Thunder preserve some cap flexibility to pay Harden, Ibaka down the road. 1 hour ago

Royce Young: Excellent day for the Thunder. Westbrook is locked up for five more years and OKC still has the chance to re-sign Harden and Ibaka. about 1 hour ago

Zach Lowe: The Thunder have the league's most efficient offense. The Westbrook signing is a no-brainer, despite his warts. about 1 hour ago

Sam Amick: Correction on terms of OKC's extension for Russell Westbrook: sources say its five years, $80 million. Max deal. about 1 hour ago

Chris Mannix: Westbrook, an LA guy who played at UCLA, signs long term in a small market. Proof that players want to winning more than location. about 1 hour ago

Adrian Wojnarowski: Westbrook deal is a huge statement for Thunder franchise: Build right, winning culture and star players want to be part of it. about 1 hour ago

Chris Mannix: Westbrook agreed to the regular max, which guarantees him 25 percent of Thunder cap next season. He could have held out for the supermax... about 1 hour ago

Chris Mannix: ...which is 30 percent. By agreeing to 25, OKC has more flexibility to pay the core (Harden, Ibaka) over next few years. about 1 hour ago

Chris Mannix: Great signing for OKC, and a statement by @Russell Westbrook that he values winning. about 1 hour ago

Tom Haberstroh: What Sam Presti is doing in Oklahoma City is phenomenal. Sure, Durant might have fallen to him in the draft, but everything else? Stellar. about 1 hour ago

Tom Haberstroh: Small markets have cards stacked against them, but Presti built a perennial contender from the ground up, market be damned. about 1 hour ago

Royce Young: For shame the Thunder won't be dominating every list of "Most underpaid players in the NBA" anymore. Oh well. about 1 hour ago

Royce Young: OKC caught a small break with the new CBA. Because KD's 5-year max was in the last CBA, the Thunder were able to give Westbrook 5 years too. about 27 minutes ago

Brian Windhorst: Russell Westbrook's new contract does not have an opt out clause, he's committed to Thunder thru 2016-17 source says about 19 minutes ago

Brian Windhorst: Westbrook follows in footsteps of Kevin Durant & Derrick Rose who took full 5-year extensions. about 18 minutes ago

Darnell Mayberry: It does NOT contain an opt-out clause that would allow Westbrook to become a free agent following the 4th season, continuing a trend by OKC. about 13 minutes ago

Royce Young: .@Sam Amick says that Westbrook's extension is locked at 25%, meaning he won't get the Rose Rule bump regardless of his season. Huge. about 12 minutes ago

Darnell Mayberry: Kevin Durant, Kendrick Perkins, Nick Collison & Thabo Sefolosha all re-signed with OKC for deals that didn't include an opt-out. about 12 minutes ago

Darnell Mayberry: The contract also is locked in at the maximum 25% of the cap, not the "Derrick Rose" max of 30% about 10 minutes ago

Darnell Mayberry: Westbrook could have waited until he made an All-NBA team this season (virtual lock) and qualified for the "Rose rule" bump. about 9 minutes ago

Royce Young: So if you're scoring at home, Westbrook pretty much took less money to help keep the Thunder's core together. Still think he's selfish? about 8 minutes ago

Darnell Mayberry: Westbrook showed his commitment to the team and to winning by sacrificing that opportunity. about 7 minutes ago

Darnell Mayberry: Thanks in large part to Westbrook's sacrifice, the Thunder is in better position to re-sign Serge Ibaka & James Harden. about 6 minutes ago

Darnell Mayberry: The Thunder made Westbrook its one player it could "designate" to have a five-year deal. Durant got his under the old CBA. 3 minutes ago

Zach Lowe: Re: Rose Rule: Source says Westbrook could have asked for any % of cap from 25% to 30%, assuming All-NBA team. 1 minute ago

[DJ]

Re: Official POST-LOCKOUT Player Movement Thread (Trades, FAs, etc)

I'm sure ESPN is ticked that this move went down, since they always try and play up the angle that Westbrook and Durant can't play together long-term.

Smart move by OKC, as they should be able to keep its starting core in tact for years to come.

[DJ]

Re: Official POST-LOCKOUT Player Movement Thread (Trades, FAs, etc)

And those chemistry issues can be easily solved, can they not? What's the other option to fix that? Split them up?

I mean they so what they fight, what competitive players/teammates DON'T fight? That got blown up out of proportion more than it should because at the time, it was made out as if it never happened before. And IMO that's where all this noise about him came from, which sucks unfortunately.

You're right in that they don't have a true veteran(Perkins is one but not in the truer sense of the word)but don't you also think that if Presti thought it was as bad as WE think, he would've addressed it by now? I mean hell, he still does have time seeing how it's only Week 4 of the season.

And if this team doesn't get it done at all then you know what...at least they went out swinging and being aggressive in trying to get what they want, which is something not a lot of teams can say or have the assets to do so. And that'll say alot especially for a small market team like them.

Yeah, it's just the nature of the 24-hour news cycle that we live in. The Pistons had fights, so did Showtime and the Celtics. It's just that we didn't hear about it, didn't have 20 analysts breaking down the argument and saying how one guy should be traded. It was mostly dealt with internally and after the dust settled, the teams moved on.

It's that competitive fire that made ALL of those teams championship-caliber, and I believe it's that same fire that will help OKC down the line. I'd rather have guys that are passionate about the game and about the team's success than guys that don't give a crap.

OKC had the chance to lock down a top-5 PG ... and left room to sign its third- and fourth-best players. There's a reason why the Thunder have gone from jokes to contenders in a few short years, and the front office is a big part in that equation.

[Jasong7777]

Re: Official POST-LOCKOUT Player Movement Thread (Trades, FAs, etc)

You're making this statement with no point of reference? Or are you saying if OKC has not won with him out of the lineup?

Just saying that dude is a good player. Just needs to get his **** together. They will have a better chance in winning a title than without him.

[bigeastbumrush]

Re: Official POST-LOCKOUT Player Movement Thread (Trades, FAs, etc)

Yeah, it's just the nature of the 24-hour news cycle that we live in. The Pistons had fights, so did Showtime and the Celtics. It's just that we didn't hear about it, didn't have 20 analysts breaking down the argument and saying how one guy should be traded. It was mostly dealt with internally and after the dust settled, the teams moved on.

It's that competitive fire that made ALL of those teams championship-caliber, and I believe it's that same fire that will help OKC down the line. I'd rather have guys that are passionate about the game and about the team's success than guys that don't give a crap.

OKC had the chance to lock down a top-5 PG ... and left room to sign its third- and fourth-best players. There's a reason why the Thunder have gone from jokes to contenders in a few short years, and the front office is a big part in that equation.

LOL@ "competitive fire".

All of those teams (Pistons, Lakers, Celtics) had veteran players to keep the young guys in check.

Please come up with a more valid comparison.

[PrettyT11]

Re: Official POST-LOCKOUT Player Movement Thread (Trades, FAs, etc)

I'm done with the whole is he worth it or not thing. Time will tell what they will do and what they can't do and if he will be worth it. but there is one thing

I'm still trying to figure out where all this cap room and money is going to come from or what kind of deals they expect Harden and Ibaka to take like these reporters are claiming. Just looking at it from the math standpoint it isn't possible for them to do so without going over.

Now let's say the cap stays at 58 million(reports out there say the cap will possibly stay the same). Durant and Westbrook alone take up over 32 million of that. So now just keeping it at round numbers that leaves you with 26 million for 10 players. Now Perkins and Collison take up over another 10. So now that leaves you with 16 million for 8 players. Now Harden is already going to take up close to 6 million of that next year while still on his rookie deal. So do they expect these guys to take the league minimum or something?? Do they expect harden to take less money than he is making now on his rookie deal when guys like Outlaw can get 8 million a year on the free agent market?? There is no way possible for them to sign all of these guys and stay under the cap. If they sign deals anywhere near their market value OKC will be pushing the lux tax(something they have already stated they have no interest in doing).

[23]

Re: Official POST-LOCKOUT Player Movement Thread (Trades, FAs, etc)

Will be an interesting watch... I hope he's worth a big part of that future

[Drewski]

Re: Official POST-LOCKOUT Player Movement Thread (Trades, FAs, etc)

LARRY BIRD EXCEPTION -- This is the best known exception. Players who qualify for this exception are called "Qualifying Veteran Free Agents" in the CBA, and this exception is formally a component of the Veteran Free Agent exception. This exception enables teams to exceed the salary cap to re-sign their own free agents, up to the player's maximum salary. To qualify for this exception the player essentially must play for three seasons without being waived or changing teams as a free agent (although there are nuances to this rule, which are explained in question number 26). This means a player can obtain "Bird rights" by playing under three consecutive one-year contracts, a single contract of at least three years, or any equivalent combination. It also means that when a player is traded, his Bird rights are traded with him, and his new team can use the Bird exception to re-sign him. These contracts can be up to six years in length. A player can receive raises up to 10.5% of the salary in the first season of the contract.

The 1983 CBA introduced the modern salary cap, and with it the provision allowing teams to exceed the cap to re-sign their own players. It is commonly believed that this exception acquired its common moniker because Larry Bird was the the first such player to be re-signed. However, this appears to be apocryphal, as Bird signed a seven-year contract in 1983 (before this provision took effect), and did not sign another until 1988.

There is one more limit to the maximum salary that can be given using the Larry Bird exception. If the player was a first round draft pick, just completed the third year of his rookie scale contract, and his team did not invoke its team option for the fourth season (see question number 42), then this exception cannot be used to re-sign him to a salary greater than he would have received had the team exercised its option. In other words, teams can't decline an option year in order to get around the salary scale and give the player more money.