Official POST-LOCKOUT Player Movement Thread (Trades, FAs, etc)

[bigeastbumrush]

Re: Official POST-LOCKOUT Player Movement Thread (Trades, FAs, etc)

You have to do better than this. Why isnt he an asset? Explain yourself instead of just making blanket statements. I'll go first: He's only 32. He was arguably an allstar last year. He doesnt miss games. He can give you 13/8/3 every single night. How isnt that guy an asset.

The Nets deal is for a center who stat padded on a loser team (Bynum could average 20 if you gave him the same number of touches on the Nets) and is one of the worst rebounding centers in the league. With that said, I like Lopez but I dont know how you can argue that Lopez plus two 1st round picks (likely not going to be lottery picks) is a much better offer than Bynum/Artest /Odom and a pick. Also Orlando gets to get rid of Gilbert w/o amnesty AND potentially use amnesty on Turk.

I'm not saying that the Laker deal is perfect but its a good offer. The Chicago deal may be better. Now please explain why Odom isnt an asset.

How is that worse?

The Magic keep their amnesty, clear out Arenas, and have three pieces that can start for them out of the gates (centered around Bynum).

If they don't want them, I can guarantee they can flip Odom and Artest into pieces that are more suited for them to build upwards. If not, that team could likely still hit the playoffs out East. Let's not forget they have Jameer still, and they'll want to find a way to trade Hedos contract away. This gives them more flexibility to start reforming the roster

Odom is definitely an asset. His contract is a bit higher than it should be but it's not unreasonable, he's coming off one of the better seasons of his career, and he's extremely versatile. He might not be what the Magic want in an asset, but he can be an asset to someone see and a versatile big can be traded easily, I'd venture.

Sent from my PC36100 using Tapatalk

Throwing in Artest and Arenas in an offer just to match salaries is trading trash. Laker fans refuse to mention untouchable Pau Gasol? I don't think Orlando is that stupid.

And Odom? He's a marginal player. He didn't make the All-Star team simply because he's not an All-Star. Is he better than Love, Gerald Wallace, Scola, etc- all guys in his salary range? No.

Brook Lopez has more upside than Odom...and I don't even think he's that good. Just needs to keep his head on and dedicate himself to rebounding.

Odom at this point in his career is like a better version of Al Harrington.

[The 24th Letter]

Re: Official POST-LOCKOUT Player Movement Thread (Trades, FAs, etc)

Odom lacks motivation in LA, a place where wants to be.

I can't even begin to imagine how he'd be in Orlando

[King_B_Mack]

Re: Official POST-LOCKOUT Player Movement Thread (Trades, FAs, etc)

Odom lacks motivation in LA, a place where wants to be.

I can't even begin to imagine how he'd be in Orlando

This is what I'm saying with Odom. Dude is already 33, he's paid and he has his two rings. Dude is strictly on his celebrity status right now with the Kardashians and he and Khole's reality show and all this other crap he's doing. You really depending on this guy playing at an All-Star level on a team where he's gonna be the best player on the team or at least they're number one/two option and out of primetime celebrity location? If I'm Orlando don't even mention LK's name to me as a deal for Dwight with the other options on the table.

[ProfessaPackMan]

Re: Official POST-LOCKOUT Player Movement Thread (Trades, FAs, etc)

You have to do better than this. Why isnt he an asset? Explain yourself instead of just making blanket statements. I'll go first: He's only 32. He was arguably an allstar last year. He doesnt miss games. He can give you 13/8/3 every single night. How isnt that guy an asset.

The Nets deal is for a center who stat padded on a loser team (Bynum could average 20 if you gave him the same number of touches on the Nets) and is one of the worst rebounding centers in the league. With that said, I like Lopez but I dont know how you can argue that Lopez plus two 1st round picks (likely not going to be lottery picks) is a much better offer than Bynum/Artest /Odom and a pick. Also Orlando gets to get rid of Gilbert w/o amnesty AND potentially use amnesty on Turk.

I'm not saying that the Laker deal is perfect but its a good offer. The Chicago deal may be better. Now please explain why Odom isnt an asset.

Wow, overrate Bynum AND Odom much?

First, I'll address the pick situation:

Assuming Orlando trades Duhwight and then say they struggle(let's be realistic, nobody is going to expect much from them once they trade him)that put's them in the Top 10 in what is expected to be a very, very deep Draft and then you throw in the Nets' 2 1st round picks(assuming they get Duhwight, they would be between 16-22. So they would basically have 3 picks in the first 20 selections. Not gonna get too much better than that on that front.

As for Bynum/Lopez, it's crazy how people have short term memory in Sports because prior to last year, he averaged 8.6 RPG and in his rookie year it was 8.1 RPG(which means he was improving)while also improving his scoring as well(mind you this was while being the number 2 option and playing with a PG who was almost allergic to passing the ball at times)and then last year he deals with Mono to which he lost ALOT of weight(which for a Center is a BIG deal)his rebounding numbers dip and now is one of the worst rebounding Centers in the league because of one year. Now where is the logic in that? LOL

Oh and BTW, dude has not missed a single game in his entire career and hasn't suffered any significant injury at all. So at least you don't have to worry about if he'll be able to play or if he'll be limited. Bynum's only 24 and he's already having knee issues that probably won't ever go away.
Durability advantage? Brook, which we both think is going to be huge if you're going to rebuild around one of these two.

But yeah, from a financial standpoint, the Nets offer is better and that really shouldn't be an argument, especially considering we're the only team who's WILLING to take back additional contracts

NJ Sends:
Brook Lopez, 2 1st Rd Picks

ORL Sends:
Duhwight
Turkoglu

And THEN if they want, they can amnesty Arenas' contract, so in one deal they're freeing ALOT of cap space for next year AND going into the Draft with 3 picks in the 1st round AND into a FA Class that will be significantly better than this current one. Or if they want to switch out Turk and put Arenas in there, they can do that but otherwise nobody else can give them that kind of stability from a financial POV.

But from a non financial standpoint and just strictly going on player for player, that Bulls deal is better than what the Nets and Lakers can offer him.

And FWIW, dude never said he wouldn't go to the Nets, that was reported by "sources". But since it's the Nets, it's automatically assumed that nobody wants to stay there(see Williams, Deron as the latest example). But from Duhwight's mouth HIMSELF(skip to 2:00 part):

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XuJpz66cME0

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1kji9Vpu2RA

So in those 2 videos, he says HE(not a source reporting)says he would like to play with Kobe Bryant, Chris Paul, Deron Williams and Anthony Morrow.

Now do those mean anything in the grand scheme of things? Probably not but it does squash this notion that he doesn't want to come to the Nets or that he would resign if he were traded there or to Chicago and he can continue to spit all this BS about not wanting to be in the cold. Umm hello McFly!?!?! YOU'RE NOT THE ONLY ATHLETE WHO DOESN'T WANT TO BE IN THE COLD, but fortunately for you, you're in a sport where the elements don't matter at all and at the very worst you only have to deal with the cold for like 3-4 months(December-March).



Sorry for the lengthy post. I realize after I addressed the Lopez/Bynum part that everything else was just rambling and I thought the words looked pretty on my screen LOL.

[Kashanova]

Re: Official POST-LOCKOUT Player Movement Thread (Trades, FAs, etc)

You have to do better than this. Why isnt he an asset? Explain yourself instead of just making blanket statements. I'll go first: He's only 32. He was arguably an allstar last year. He doesnt miss games. He can give you 13/8/3 every single night. How isnt that guy an asset.

The Nets deal is for a center who stat padded on a loser team (Bynum could average 20 if you gave him the same number of touches on the Nets) and is one of the worst rebounding centers in the league. With that said, I like Lopez but I dont know how you can argue that Lopez plus two 1st round picks (likely not going to be lottery picks) is a much better offer than Bynum/Artest /Odom and a pick. Also Orlando gets to get rid of Gilbert w/o amnesty AND potentially use amnesty on Turk.

I'm not saying that the Laker deal is perfect but its a good offer. The Chicago deal may be better. Now please explain why Odom isnt an asset.

bynum could average 20 and only play 50 games, Brook plays every game. He's actually played 82 games all three years in the League. Artest being in the trade isn't an asset either. He's a liability on and off the court. He can't defend that good anymore and there's no telling how he would react to being traded. I think if the magic were a contender I could see the Odom being a asset argument but once you trade your franchise center and cornerstone I can see the 1st round picks being more valueable than Odom. I don't see odom going to a rebuilding team as an asset

[ProfessaPackMan]

Re: Official POST-LOCKOUT Player Movement Thread (Trades, FAs, etc)

Odom lacks motivation in LA, a place where wants to be.

I can't even begin to imagine how he'd be in Orlando

I imagine being married to a fat slob does that to you in place like Cali LOL.

[Drewski]

Re: Official POST-LOCKOUT Player Movement Thread (Trades, FAs, etc)

Throwing in Artest and Arenas in an offer just to match salaries is trading trash. Laker fans refuse to mention untouchable Pau Gasol? I don't think Orlando is that stupid.

And Odom? He's a marginal player. He didn't make the All-Star team simply because he's not an All-Star. Is he better than Love, Gerald Wallace, Scola, etc- all guys in his salary range? No.

Brook Lopez has more upside than Odom...and I don't even think he's that good. Just needs to keep his head on and dedicate himself to rebounding.

Odom at this point in his career is like a better version of Al Harrington.

Throwing in Arenas is not something small for Orlando, the amount of downplay on his contract right now is ridiculous. Gilbert Arenas is the 5th highest paid player in the league.

THE ORLANDO MAGIC HAVE THE 2ND HIGHEST SALARY IN ALL OF THE LEAGUE!

How's this look guys?

Gilbert Arenas
2011-2012: 19.2 million
2012-2013: 20.8 million (player option, what player like Arenas is going to opt out of getting paid 20.8 million?)
2013-2014: 22.3 million

That's ALOT of money to pay ANYONE unless this is a star player who is helping your team touch the Larry O'Brien trophy. That's 62.3 million dollars over THREE YEARS! That's more than what over half of the league pays in salary PER YEAR TOTAL! Even if they amnesty him, they STILL have to pay him (the only thing his contract amnesty counts towards is Luxury Tax relief). They'd be better served amnestying Hedo if they choose to amnesty anyone, his contract isn't as bloated (still way overpaid) as Arenas, and it's much shorter. And the likelihood that the Magic will need $20 million in luxury tax relief is slim to none (they would need roughly 80 million in salary). Worst case in an amnesty situation, they can cut Hedo's $21 million in guaranteed, and use the $10-11 million per year of luxury tax relief from his contract being amnestied. I understand alot of you are comparing talent alone, but this is a business and the lockout made the crystal clear. The owners don't want to lose money. This is a HUGE step forward for the front office if they can do this.

You're right. Pau is untouchable. I'm Mitch Kupchak and I make that clear day one of negotations with the Magic. Lakers would be stupid to include Pau in anything the Orlando Magic offer, they simply don't have enough outside of Dwight to make it worth the Lakers' while. Why would the Lakers even entertain that? What would the Magic do with an over 30 year old Pau Gasol anyway? He'd be on the books for another THREE years, raking in over $60 million. If Dwight couldnt' get it done (talking Title here), why would it make any sense that they could build a title team with Pau?

Lamar Odom is a BETTER ASSET THAN PAU GASOL. Wait what? He is on schedule to make $8.9 million this year, and on a TEAM OPTION of an even CHEAPER $8.2 million NEXT YEAR, and then he's off the books. Gerald Wallace is making $10.6 and then $11.5 next year on a player option. Luis Scola? $8.5, $9.2, $10.2, and then $11.0 is the final year of his contract (he's 31 right now, will be 34-35 when his contract ends and his sitting making $11 million). Kevin Love is still on his ROOKIE contract and will almost DEFINITELY be making AT LEAST $12 mil a year once his contract expires. It's not even close. Lamar Odom makes barely more than the MID LEVEL EXCEPTION, you can't even begin to tell me he isn't cost efficient in a free agency with bloated contracts. If he was a free agent, right now, he'd likely be the most sought after guy out there this side of Chandler and Nene. The amount of down play of what Odom brings to a team astounds me.

[Drewski]

Re: Official POST-LOCKOUT Player Movement Thread (Trades, FAs, etc)

And THEN if they want, they can amnesty Arenas' contract, so in one deal they're freeing ALOT of cap space for next year AND going into the Draft with 3 picks in the 1st round AND into a FA Class that will be significantly better than this current one. Or if they want to switch out Turk and put Arenas in there, they can do that but otherwise nobody else can give them that kind of stability from a financial POV.

You're incorrect. Amnestying Arenas' contract is ONE OF THE WORST THINGS THE MAGIC COULD DO. They will save NO money from amnestying him, it is only considered against the Luxury tax. Financially, their best move is to TRADE Arenas', and the Lakers provide the absolute best case scenario (and likely ONLY) for Arena's being shipped and -completely- cleaning him off their books (leaving the amnesty for their last TERRIBLE contract, Hedo, should they choose to use it if they are still over the salary cap). Amnestying Arena's makes -NO- sense what so ever, his super high contract diminishes the value once it gets over the $10 million mark (Hedo's mark). Extremely unlikely they'd be back $20 million over cap again once their front office starts cleaning up the mess they have.

Also, as far as cleaning up their mess. What makes more sense? Trading both guys (Arenas and Hedo) or Trading Hedo and Amnestying Arenas (again, amnesty only counts towards luxury tax relief). I'll tell you one definite thing - it's MUCH easier to trade Hedo than Arenas. They can hold a gun to Mitch and force Arenas to the Lakers.

[ex carrabba fan]

Re: Official POST-LOCKOUT Player Movement Thread (Trades, FAs, etc)

The hell happened in here

Lol

[DukeC]

Re: Official POST-LOCKOUT Player Movement Thread (Trades, FAs, etc)

The hell happened in here

Lol

Drewski going HAM and droppin knowledge.

[Drewski]

Re: Official POST-LOCKOUT Player Movement Thread (Trades, FAs, etc)

Also, the Bulls package? Suddenly everyone loves Boozer on his way overblown contract? Couldn't win a title with Boozer and Noah last year (not to say the Bulls never can/will), what makes it any different for the Magic who have no one NEAR the caliber of Rose? Why would they even want the Boozer contract? Joakim Noah is good, but he isn't leading anyone to the promised lands. Deng?

I'll stop here. We're talking about trading Deng, Noah, AND Boozer from the Bulls? Gutting 3 out of the 5 starters they have on their team isn't a good look from the outside, but I can understand doing it to land Dwight. Fair enough.

But what's Dwight's inclination to sign an extension with the Bulls (forgive me) out East? Yes, Rose is an amazing superstar talent who's going to continue to dominate the league, but I wouldn't by any stretch chalk up a title with Rose and Dwight. Not next year. Believe what you will, but I find it to be fairly clear Dwight's #1 location to be is LA. Kobe/Pau/Dwight looks more like a ring collection to me for the next few years than Rose/Dwight and...?. In that time span, Dwight can rest assured that the Lakers' front office will steadily be ready to bring in the next "generation" (post Kobe/Pau). It's never been difficult for LA to land quality talent.

[loganone]

Re: Official POST-LOCKOUT Player Movement Thread (Trades, FAs, etc)

You're incorrect. Amnestying Arenas' contract is ONE OF THE WORST THINGS THE MAGIC COULD DO. They will save NO money from amnestying him, it is only considered against the Luxury tax. Financially, their best move is to TRADE Arenas', and the Lakers provide the absolute best case scenario (and likely ONLY) for Arena's being shipped and -completely- cleaning him off their books (leaving the amnesty for their last TERRIBLE contract, Hedo, should they choose to use it if they are still over the salary cap). Amnestying Arena's makes -NO- sense what so ever, his super high contract diminishes the value once it gets over the $10 million mark (Hedo's mark). Extremely unlikely they'd be back $20 million over cap again once their front office starts cleaning up the mess they have.

Also, as far as cleaning up their mess. What makes more sense? Trading both guys (Arenas and Hedo) or Trading Hedo and Amnestying Arenas (again, amnesty only counts towards luxury tax relief). I'll tell you one definite thing - it's MUCH easier to trade Hedo than Arenas. They can hold a gun to Mitch and force Arenas to the Lakers.

You keep referencing the old amnesty rule, the new one lets you wipe a salary off the cap entirely.

[aholbert32]

Re: Official POST-LOCKOUT Player Movement Thread (Trades, FAs, etc)

bynum could average 20 and only play 50 games, Brook plays every game. He's actually played 82 games all three years in the League. Artest being in the trade isn't an asset either. He's a liability on and off the court. He can't defend that good anymore and there's no telling how he would react to being traded. I think if the magic were a contender I could see the Odom being a asset argument but once you trade your franchise center and cornerstone I can see the 1st round picks being more valueable than Odom. I don't see odom going to a rebuilding team as an asset

Artest hasnt been a liability off the court in almost 5 yrs. We arent talking about Palace Riot Artest, Also adding Bynum/Odom still makes the Magic a playoff team in the East so Odom would still be an asset.

[King_B_Mack]

Re: Official POST-LOCKOUT Player Movement Thread (Trades, FAs, etc)

Drewski going HAM and droppin knowledge.

Spelling out a way for the Orlando Magic to be even more stupid than trading for Rashard Lewis' contract in the first place, to then thinking they've made a good move in trading Lewis' **** contract for the even ****tier Gilbert Arenas contract and proceeding to trade the best Center in the league for the softest knees in the league, Ron Artest and Lamar Odom without even being able to ask about Pau Gasol in said deal would not qualify for "droppin knowledge."

[loloben]

Re: Official POST-LOCKOUT Player Movement Thread (Trades, FAs, etc)

Bulls Get
Dwight Howard
Hedo Turkoglu

Magic Get
Joakim Noah
Luol Deng
Omer Asik
Charlotte's 1st rounder
Bulls would have to relase Bogans, Lucas, and Pargo

I think that's a fair trade, but i'm biased.