Official POST-LOCKOUT Player Movement Thread (Trades, FAs, etc)

[Kashanova]

Re: Official POST-LOCKOUT Player Movement Thread (Trades, FAs, etc)

Artest hasnt been a liability off the court in almost 5 yrs. We arent talking about Palace Riot Artest, Also adding Bynum/Odom still makes the Magic a playoff team in the East so Odom would still be an asset.

i still disagree, I think when you trade a guy like howard and/or paul you almost automatically go to a rebuild mode, happened with the magic when they traded away tmac, happened to cleveland and a lot of other teams in similar situations

[ProfessaPackMan]

Re: Official POST-LOCKOUT Player Movement Thread (Trades, FAs, etc)

You're incorrect. Amnestying Arenas' contract is ONE OF THE WORST THINGS THE MAGIC COULD DO. They will save NO money from amnestying him, it is only considered against the Luxury tax. Financially, their best move is to TRADE Arenas', and the Lakers provide the absolute best case scenario (and likely ONLY) for Arena's being shipped and -completely- cleaning him off their books (leaving the amnesty for their last TERRIBLE contract, Hedo, should they choose to use it if they are still over the salary cap). Amnestying Arena's makes -NO- sense what so ever, his super high contract diminishes the value once it gets over the $10 million mark (Hedo's mark). Extremely unlikely they'd be back $20 million over cap again once their front office starts cleaning up the mess they have.

Also, as far as cleaning up their mess. What makes more sense? Trading both guys (Arenas and Hedo) or Trading Hedo and Amnestying Arenas (again, amnesty only counts towards luxury tax relief). I'll tell you one definite thing - it's MUCH easier to trade Hedo than Arenas. They can hold a gun to Mitch and force Arenas to the Lakers.

Each team permitted to waive 1 player prior to any season of the CBA (only for contracts in place at the inception of the CBA) and have 100% of the player's salary removed from team salary for Cap and Tax purposes.
Salary of amnestied players included for purposes of calculating players'agreed-upon share of BRI.
A modified waiver process will be utilized for players waived pursuant to the Amnesty rule, under which teams with Room under the Cap can submit competing offers to assume some but not all of the player's remaining contract. If a player's contract is claimed in this manner, the remaining portion of the player's salary will continue to be paid by the team that waived him

http://www.peachtreehoops.com/2011/11/27/2589835/nba-amnesty-clause-further-explained-in-tentative-agreement

Again, going by your example, it defeats the purpose of the amnesty clause and really all you'd be doing is just cutting him WHILE still keeping his contract on YOUR books. My original point stands.

And Ex, I don't even know man LOL. I blame BSPN because they achieved their goal in really having people believe that a move like that(to get CP3 and Duhwight)can actually be done or that the League would allow the Hornets to trade him to LA. They playing with people's emotions man

[aholbert32]

Re: Official POST-LOCKOUT Player Movement Thread (Trades, FAs, etc)

Wow, overrate Bynum AND Odom much?

First, I'll address the pick situation:

Assuming Orlando trades Duhwight and then say they struggle(let's be realistic, nobody is going to expect much from them once they trade him)that put's them in the Top 10 in what is expected to be a very, very deep Draft and then you throw in the Nets' 2 1st round picks(assuming they get Duhwight, they would be between 16-22. So they would basically have 3 picks in the first 20 selections. Not gonna get too much better than that on that front.

As for Bynum/Lopez, it's crazy how people have short term memory in Sports because prior to last year, he averaged 8.6 RPG and in his rookie year it was 8.1 RPG(which means he was improving)while also improving his scoring as well(mind you this was while being the number 2 option and playing with a PG who was almost allergic to passing the ball at times)and then last year he deals with Mono to which he lost ALOT of weight(which for a Center is a BIG deal)his rebounding numbers dip and now is one of the worst rebounding Centers in the league because of one year. Now where is the logic in that? LOL

Oh and BTW, dude has not missed a single game in his entire career and hasn't suffered any significant injury at all. So at least you don't have to worry about if he'll be able to play or if he'll be limited. Bynum's only 24 and he's already having knee issues that probably won't ever go away.
Durability advantage? Brook, which we both think is going to be huge if you're going to rebuild around one of these two.

But yeah, from a financial standpoint, the Nets offer is better and that really shouldn't be an argument, especially considering we're the only team who's WILLING to take back additional contracts

NJ Sends:
Brook Lopez, 2 1st Rd Picks

ORL Sends:
Duhwight
Turkoglu

And THEN if they want, they can amnesty Arenas' contract, so in one deal they're freeing ALOT of cap space for next year AND going into the Draft with 3 picks in the 1st round AND into a FA Class that will be significantly better than this current one. Or if they want to switch out Turk and put Arenas in there, they can do that but otherwise nobody else can give them that kind of stability from a financial POV.

But from a non financial standpoint and just strictly going on player for player, that Bulls deal is better than what the Nets and Lakers can offer him.

And FWIW, dude never said he wouldn't go to the Nets, that was reported by "sources". But since it's the Nets, it's automatically assumed that nobody wants to stay there(see Williams, Deron as the latest example). But from Duhwight's mouth HIMSELF(skip to 2:00 part):

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XuJpz66cME0

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1kji9Vpu2RA

So in those 2 videos, he says HE(not a source reporting)says he would like to play with Kobe Bryant, Chris Paul, Deron Williams and Anthony Morrow.

Now do those mean anything in the grand scheme of things? Probably not but it does squash this notion that he doesn't want to come to the Nets or that he would resign if he were traded there or to Chicago and he can continue to spit all this BS about not wanting to be in the cold. Umm hello McFly!?!?! YOU'RE NOT THE ONLY ATHLETE WHO DOESN'T WANT TO BE IN THE COLD, but fortunately for you, you're in a sport where the elements don't matter at all and at the very worst you only have to deal with the cold for like 3-4 months(December-March).



Sorry for the lengthy post. I realize after I addressed the Lopez/Bynum part that everything else was just rambling and I thought the words looked pretty on my screen LOL.

Actually I dont overrate them at all. I told you what Odom's value is....13/8/3 and 78-82 games a year. I told you what Bynum's is...24yr old, decent offensive and defensive player and injury prone. How the hell is that overrating them?

Regarding the Nets trade, the two picks plus Orlando's potential lottery pick is nice but you are forgetting one thing. Orlando just moved into a new building and wont want to tank this entire season and have a rebuilding team for next season. The team needs revenue to pay for the building. That is the main reason the Magic havent jumped on this deal. Dwight would have no problem with going to NJ/Brooklyn and potentially building a team with Deron. The problem is the Magic want assets that can help them stay a playoff team now.

Regarding Brook's rebounding, even during that rookie yr where he averaged 8.1 or the 8.6 yr, he was 44th in the league when it came to rebounds per 48 minutes. In the 8.6 yr, there were 11 centers who averaged more than him and all of them except for David Lee played less minutes per game. Then we have last year and maybe mono played a role in the dip but it wasnt like Lopez was a dominant rebounder in the first place.

Finally. I've always lived by this rule...always beware of the guy with the great numbers on a ****ty team. Lopez averaged 16 shots a game last yr. More than Howard, Horford and Duncan. He got a good amount of touches for a center. My argument is that many Centers (including Bynum) could average 20 if he got that many shots per game. I think Lopez is a good center but taking away the injury history...I dont think there is that much of a difference.

[King_B_Mack]

Re: Official POST-LOCKOUT Player Movement Thread (Trades, FAs, etc)

Also, the Bulls package? Suddenly everyone loves Boozer on his way overblown contract? Couldn't win a title with Boozer and Noah last year (not to say the Bulls never can/will), what makes it any different for the Magic who have no one NEAR the caliber of Rose? Why would they even want the Boozer contract? Joakim Noah is good, but he isn't leading anyone to the promised lands. Deng?

I'll stop here. We're talking about trading Deng, Noah, AND Boozer from the Bulls? Gutting 3 out of the 5 starters they have on their team isn't a good look from the outside, but I can understand doing it to land Dwight. Fair enough.

But what's Dwight's inclination to sign an extension with the Bulls (forgive me) out East? Yes, Rose is an amazing superstar talent who's going to continue to dominate the league, but I wouldn't by any stretch chalk up a title with Rose and Dwight. Not next year. Believe what you will, but I find it to be fairly clear Dwight's #1 location to be is LA. Kobe/Pau/Dwight looks more like a ring collection to me for the next few years than Rose/Dwight and...?. In that time span, Dwight can rest assured that the Lakers' front office will steadily be ready to bring in the next "generation" (post Kobe/Pau). It's never been difficult for LA to land quality talent.

This point here completely nullifies any statement you make on the matter further. So Boozer and Noah couldn't win a title last year, therefore they don't help Orlando at all. Cool. What did Odom and Bynum do last year? Never mind that question though, the Magic adding Boozer and Noah can't win a title as they're constructed but they're going to do it with Bynum, Odom and Artest? Are you high? Come on man.

As for Dwight/Rose and ? Again are you high? Guys are all lining up to play with Rose/Deng/Noah/Boozer why in the **** would they be turning up their noses in disgust to play with Rose/Howard. Keep telling yourself LA is the best spot if you want, you have to come back to reality at some point.

[aholbert32]

Re: Official POST-LOCKOUT Player Movement Thread (Trades, FAs, etc)

http://www.peachtreehoops.com/2011/1...tive-agreement

Again, going by your example, it defeats the purpose of the amnesty clause and really all you'd be doing is just cutting him WHILE still keeping his contract on YOUR books. My original point stands.

And Ex, I don't even know man LOL. I blame BSPN because they achieved their goal in really having people believe that a move like that(to get CP3 and Duhwight)can actually be done or that the League would allow the Hornets to trade him to LA. They playing with people's emotions man

Actually I dont get your point. Its pretty simple.

Arenas is scheduled to make 60 mil over the next three years.

Turk is has about 35 mil over the next 3.

If you amnesty Arenas, he comes off of your cap but Orlando still has to pay him the 60 mil.

If you trade Arenas, he comes off your cap and you dont have to pay him the 60.

We are talking about a difference of 25 mil for a team facing significant revenue losses associated with losing Howard, reduced attendance and costs of a new building.

[Drewski]

Re: Official POST-LOCKOUT Player Movement Thread (Trades, FAs, etc)

Spelling out a way for the Orlando Magic to be even more stupid than trading for Rashard Lewis' contract in the first place, to then thinking they've made a good move in trading Lewis' **** contract for the even ****tier Gilbert Arenas contract and proceeding to trade the best Center in the league for the softest knees in the league, Ron Artest and Lamar Odom without even being able to ask about Pau Gasol in said deal would not qualify for "droppin knowledge."

You can ask about Pau, but the consolation prize of Brook Lopez and two firsts isn't as pretty as you really think it is once you take the bow off.

Back to Bynum vs. Brook. It's pretty close I'd say, but I have a hard time taking Brook over Bynum.

Last year, for example, let's take a look at rebounding. Brook Lopez average 6 rebounds a game. It'd be easy to stop there, but lets not. Ok, so he grabs 6 boards. Kris Humphries averages 10.4, so that's going to soak up some glass. But the next best is Deron Williams with 4.6. Brooks rebounding %? 10% flat.

Bynum? 9.4 Rpg. Gasol grabbed up 10.2 rebounds, so lets wash him with Humphries (guy can rebound, or maybe it's the lack of rebounding around him?). Odom grabbed 8.7 rpg (you know, the guy who isn't worth anything?). Kobe grabbed 5.1 And finally you have someone who drops below Deron Williams, Matt Barnes with 4.3 (he's one of the best rebounders at the 3). Bynums rebounding %? Oh, that'd be 19.2 %. Nearly double Brook Lopez. Oh, and Pau Gasol is a fairly good rebounder right? Yet he has a 15.6% rebounding percentage.

Andrew Bynum is in the top 5 of rebounding percentage - Brook Lopez doesn't crack the top 20.

Give Bynum the touches Brook has and it's not even CLOSE in comparison. This isn't even considering defensive capabilities one way or the other.

[ProfessaPackMan]

Re: Official POST-LOCKOUT Player Movement Thread (Trades, FAs, etc)

Regarding the Nets trade, the two picks plus Orlando's potential lottery pick is nice but you are forgetting one thing. Orlando just moved into a new building and wont want to tank this entire season and have a rebuilding team for next season. The team needs revenue to pay for the building. That is the main reason the Magic havent jumped on this deal. Dwight would have no problem with going to NJ/Brooklyn and potentially building a team with Deron. The problem is the Magic want assets that can help them stay a playoff team now.

And somehow, Odom and a guy who can never stay healthy are going to do that? Ha. Ha. Ha.

They're not going to make no noise this year once Duhwight is gone so they were going to take a hit either way, it's just a matter of how soon.

Regarding Brook's rebounding, even during that rookie yr where he averaged 8.1 or the 8.6 yr, he was 44th in the league when it came to rebounds per 48 minutes. In the 8.6 yr, there were 11 centers who averaged more than him and all of them except for David Lee played less minutes per game. Then we have last year and maybe mono played a role in the dip but it wasnt like Lopez was a dominant rebounder in the first place.

Who said he was a dominant rebounder? He's FAR from an awful rebounder that people are throwing at him.

Either way, you're not to find too many guys(especially at 23) who can get you 18 and 8 with PLENTY of room to improve and already being one of the best Offensive guys at his position. But I can admit that rebounding IS a big question for him because he'll need to prove to people that last year was the exception. Other than that, that's really the only question you can have about Lopez. Can't say the same for Bynum.

If you trade Arenas, he comes off your cap and you dont have to pay him the 60

But you see the problem is in trades, you generally have to have something that the other team WANTS and doesn't mind paying for. Who is going to willfully say "You know what, we'll take Arenas off your hands even though he hasn't shown us **** since his DC days AND we'd be willing to pay the remainder of his contract."

[ProfessaPackMan]

Re: Official POST-LOCKOUT Player Movement Thread (Trades, FAs, etc)

This point here completely nullifies any statement you make on the matter further. So Boozer and Noah couldn't win a title last year, therefore they don't help Orlando at all. Cool. What did Odom and Bynum do last year? Never mind that question though, the Magic adding Boozer and Noah can't win a title as they're constructed but they're going to do it with Bynum, Odom and Artest? Are you high? Come on man.

As for Dwight/Rose and ? Again are you high? Guys are all lining up to play with Rose/Deng/Noah/Boozer why in the **** would they be turning up their noses in disgust to play with Rose/Howard. Keep telling yourself LA is the best spot if you want, you have to come back to reality at some point.

It's funny how Duhwight is foaming at the mouth to want to go to LA(according to some)but will not go to Chicago even though it has never come from his mouth but instead being reported by "sources".

I guess Deron Williams is the exception and not the norm because you at least heard from HIS mouth on what HE wants and not what's being reported by "sources".

[aholbert32]

Re: Official POST-LOCKOUT Player Movement Thread (Trades, FAs, etc)

And somehow, Odom and a guy who can never stay healthy are going to do that? Ha. Ha. Ha.

They're not going to make no noise this year once Duhwight is gone so they were going to take a hit either way, it's just a matter of how soon.


Who said he was a dominant rebounder? He's FAR from an awful rebounder that people are throwing at him.

Either way, you're not to find too many guys(especially at 23) who can get you 18 and 8 with PLENTY of room to improve and already being one of the best Offensive guys at his position. But I can admit that rebounding IS a big question for him because he'll need to prove to people that last year was the exception. Other than that, that's really the only question you can have about Lopez. Can't say the same for Bynum.

Bynum, Artest and Odom plus Turk and Nelson can get them into the playoffs in the East. I dont think Brook Lopez and Nelson get them anything other than a lottery pick.

I think ranking 81st in rebounding per 48 min last year and 44th in your "good" rebounding years is much closer to awful than good.

My only concern about Andrew is his health. On the court, I think the kid has improved a ton. This is a guy who averages less than 30 min per game and pulls down almost 10 rebounds. He averages 7 shots a game. I would love to see what he could do if he got Brook's touches and minutes.

[Drewski]

Re: Official POST-LOCKOUT Player Movement Thread (Trades, FAs, etc)

This point here completely nullifies any statement you make on the matter further. So Boozer and Noah couldn't win a title last year, therefore they don't help Orlando at all. Cool. What did Odom and Bynum do last year? Never mind that question though, the Magic adding Boozer and Noah can't win a title as they're constructed but they're going to do it with Bynum, Odom and Artest? Are you high? Come on man.

As for Dwight/Rose and ? Again are you high? Guys are all lining up to play with Rose/Deng/Noah/Boozer why in the **** would they be turning up their noses in disgust to play with Rose/Howard. Keep telling yourself LA is the best spot if you want, you have to come back to reality at some point.

Last year? We lost. Boo-hoo. I'll chalk up last year vs. the three straight Finals trips and two rings for what it is. Lakers lost. Not going to do it with Odom and Artest, those words were never typed. I've maintained these points

- An Artest/Odom/Bynum package provides them a centerpiece in Bynum. Two starters in Artest and Odom.

- Odom's contract is one of the best in the league as it stands. He's well worth his 8.9 mill this year and 8.2 next year to any team.

- The Magic will clear Arenas off 100%. I'd consider that huge.

- Andrew Bynum is an excellent rebounder, especially in comparison to Brook Lopez.

- The Magic would have an easy enough time finding a team that would be interested in taking Odom and/or Artest of their hands. A mid level and just above mid level contract is very appealing in a world where Nene will likely get close to max. Can't help but think contending teams will be knocking on the door pitching away that they can provide younger, efficient pieces that just need time to grow that are still very plausible for their veteran wing men.

- Never said anyone is "turning their nose" up to playing for the Bulls.

- I think it's non-debatable that The Lakers have historically been one of the greatest sports organizations. 23 Hall of Famers, 16 titles.

[aholbert32]

Re: Official POST-LOCKOUT Player Movement Thread (Trades, FAs, etc)

But you see the problem is in trades, you generally have to have something that the other team WANTS and doesn't mind paying for. Who is going to willfully say "You know what, we'll take Arenas off your hands even though he hasn't shown us **** since his DC days AND we'd be willing to pay the remainder of his contract."

The Lakers would if it means getting Howard. Buss would take that contract in a heartbeat if it meant getting a superstar that could keep the Lakers as contenders once Kobe retires.

[Drewski]

Re: Official POST-LOCKOUT Player Movement Thread (Trades, FAs, etc)

But you see the problem is in trades, you generally have to have something that the other team WANTS and doesn't mind paying for. Who is going to willfully say "You know what, we'll take Arenas off your hands even though he hasn't shown us **** since his DC days AND we'd be willing to pay the remainder of his contract."

The Lakers and their lust for Howard/Pau/Kobe. And the funnier part is, Arenas is likely an upgrade at the point.

[Playmakers]

Re: Official POST-LOCKOUT Player Movement Thread (Trades, FAs, etc)

Looks like Dallas might try to replace Butler's scoring with Mike Redd

GeryWoelfel There are some NBA officials who believe the Dallas Mavericks will make a strong last-minute run at Mike Redd. Nowitzki and Redd on per ...

[ProfessaPackMan]

Re: Official POST-LOCKOUT Player Movement Thread (Trades, FAs, etc)

Yeah and I can say the samething about The Russian and his lust to have Deron/Duhwight open up Brooklyn and try to takeover NY. But at that point, it'd just be a matter of which team you have allegiances with so yeah LOL

[Drewski]

Re: Official POST-LOCKOUT Player Movement Thread (Trades, FAs, etc)

Yeah and I can say the samething about The Russian and his lust to have Deron/Duhwight open up Brooklyn and try to takeover NY. But at that point, it'd just be a matter of which team you have allegiances with so yeah LOL

I agree. The Nets are certainly in the mix. Never argued they weren't. I've even argued that the Nets should be willing to pull that trigger even if Dwight -wont extend- to basically force those two to play together and see if either of them can resist continuing on whatever path they wind up on (I assume Deron/Dwight would be very dangerous) in their journey to Brooklyn (plenty of media coverage and Jay in D12's ear). Nets are definitely in the mix there's no question.