Jeremy Lin

[DamnYanks2]

Re: Jeremy Lin

The turnovers are also easier to notice against the Heat. The Heat, at their best, is a fast break team that feasts on long rebounds and turnovers. They also match up well against the PnR and if the wing players don't need to help on a driving PG they limit a lot of open passing lanes for jump shots. I'd say in general, the Knicks match up well with the Heat but the Heat also match up well with the Knicks... and their guys are better.

If Lin's shot was falling it would've made a bit of a difference but as much flack as Melo gets, that's the kind of game where he needs to be able to create more on his own for the Knicks to win.

Well he was due to have an off game, and it's not really surprising that it would come against the Heat. I agree completely though..those are the games Melo and Amare have to take over. I'm extremely impressed with Lin, I'm sure it's been said, but I lost track of this thread. He really has a flair for the dramatic. No one can deny what he's done there isn't miracuous. The hype is warranted, the comparisons are not. But he righted that ship, and it's been amazing to watch.

I really hope the Linsanity continues, this is fun. I'm not sure this is the real Lin were seeing, he might just be playing at another level and soon will come back down to earth. But is has been miraculous to watch. I think he has good court vision. Not Nash like or Kidd like. But he sees the floor pretty well. He just has to slow down his mind and is play, he rushes things too often. He'll learn to cut those TO's down.

[NINJAK2]

Re: Jeremy Lin

No, bigeast is right. Even in ESPN coverage they are talking about his turnovers and how it "hadn't been detrimental to the team yet."

This was back when they played the Lakers. Barry kept saying stuff like "look a young guy is going to need to take care of the ball" and blah blah blah.

I'll take you and BigEast's word for it P. Just didn't seem like the media were making a big deal out of his turnovers during his hot streak when I feel that turnovers as a PG is a very big deal. Hope Lin gets back on track.

[bigeastbumrush]

Re: Jeremy Lin

They have mentioned them in passing BigEast but they have not really made a point to highlight them or harp on them. With you in NY being able to watch more games of him maybe they make a point to talk about them in pre/postgame shows more but I'm referring to ESPN/ABC, TNT talking heads. Media can't keep the Linsanity Train going if they are harping on TO's during his incredible run.

I've seen ESPN put up Lin's 10 starts and how he ranks as the leading turnover guy in NBA history.

I've also seen Jon Barry and Chris Broussard talk him down because of his turnovers.

Of course they're going to fuel the Linsanity hype by bringing up his positives more than his negatives.

I took issue with guys in here talking about his court vision.

[wwharton]

Re: Jeremy Lin

You can equate court vision to assists if the other players are getting easy baskets. If I didn't watch the games played, I would say otherwise. Trust me.

And it's not fair to compare him to Steve Nash (which I never did) but it's also not fair to compare him to Toney Douglas (which I did)?

Never did I mention hating or any of that stuff.

People said he has poor court vision and I asked them to explain how did he get wins and numbers? Only you took a moment to address that.

You did throw out the "damned if you do..." mess in response to my post. Not a direct statement about hating but definitely implying that the comments are only trying to find negatives about him (which seems to only be bc you don't want people saying anything negative about him).

Anyway, I wouldn't compare him to Nash or Douglas. I'd even say he's closer to Nash bc I don't think Douglas can play PG to the level necessary for that system.

As for court vision, it's not a direct correlation. Guys can be open and a player who's thinking about scoring first won't get them the ball. There are also players that generally don't trust others (even though it shouldn't be their call), don't know the best place to get the ball to certain guys based on their strengths and weaknesses, don't know how to draw defenders to get a covered player open, etc. The ability/willingness to recognize and do any of these things don't have anything to do with court vision. Meanwhile, all of these things create easy assist opportunities (or easy baskets if we're looking at it from the receiving end).

Kobe has better court vision than his assist numbers would show because his mentality isn't that of a passer so he uses it in spurts. Lin's court vision is "good" for an NBA player, probably average for a starting PG in the NBA. His decision making, understanding of how to run the offense and willingness to try to get everyone involved explains his assist numbers more than court vision. Honestly his court vision probably explains his turnovers more than his assists.

[DamnYanks2]

Re: Jeremy Lin

I'll take you and BigEast's word for it P. Just didn't seem like people were making a big deal out of his turnovers during his hot streak when I feel that turnovers as a PG is a very big deal. Hope Lin gets back on track.

Yea, it seems to get overlooked, and some games it's been really bad.

[wwharton]

Re: Jeremy Lin

Well he was due to have an off game, and it's not really surprising that it would come against the Heat. I agree completely though..those are the games Melo and Amare have to take over. I'm extremely impressed with Lin, I'm sure it's been said, but I lost track of this thread. He really has a flair for the dramatic. No one can deny what he's done there isn't miracuous. The hype is warranted, the comparisons are not. But he righted that ship, and it's been amazing to watch.

I really hope the Linsanity continues, this is fun. I'm not sure this is the real Lin were seeing, he might just be playing at another level and soon will come back down to earth. But is has been miraculous to watch. I think he has good court vision. Not Nash like or Kidd like. But he sees the floor pretty well. He just has to slow down his mind and is play, he rushes things too often. He'll learn to cut those TO's down.

Watching the kid ball is fun (and talking about it on OS... that's what a board is for) but the media angles are annoying as all hell. And that includes the talk of him being exposed or whatever now that he had a bad game. Lets treat him like every other player in the NBA. Even Lebron doesn't get the number of minute by minute breakdowns when he has an abnormally good or bad game.

He'll need an offseason (and honestly, a few more games like last night to look at). He really needs a stronger left hand. Not only did he have trouble advancing the ball bc of it but he also picked up his dribble at horrible times and dribbled too deep into traffic bc of it. He's got other things to improve on like any young player (especially one still learning the position) but his confidence will go up big time when he's comfortable with a live dribble at all times. He won't try to force as many passes then either.

[Pared]

Re: Jeremy Lin

I'll take you and BigEast's word for it P. Just didn't seem like the media were making a big deal out of his turnovers during his hot streak when I feel that turnovers as a PG is a very big deal. Hope Lin gets back on track.

I guess it's all relative. It's a feel good story for city that has been down in terms of basketball power and a pride thing racially for his heritage.

If a player does X number of things wrong, but then does these amazing feats to pull out a win, I fully expect a media outlet to highlight the positives. It's pretty much the makeup of sports coverage anywhere today. Focus on the good until the bad hurts you.

If the Knicks start losing because of his turnovers, fully expect the media to focus on that as well.

[DamnYanks2]

Re: Jeremy Lin

Watching the kid ball is fun (and talking about it on OS... that's what a board is for) but the media angles are annoying as all hell. And that includes the talk of him being exposed or whatever now that he had a bad game. Lets treat him like every other player in the NBA. Even Lebron doesn't get the number of minute by minute breakdowns when he has an abnormally good or bad game.

He'll need an offseason (and honestly, a few more games like last night to look at). He really needs a stronger left hand. Not only did he have trouble advancing the ball bc of it but he also picked up his dribble at horrible times and dribbled too deep into traffic bc of it. He's got other things to improve on like any young player (especially one still learning the position) but his confidence will go up big time when he's comfortable with a live dribble at all times. He won't try to force as many passes then either.

I completely agree with that. I knew the hype was coming in bunches. I knew ESPN was gonna cover this till till my ears started bleeding. It's NY, their season looks lost, and here comes the savior of NYC. A remarkable, miraculous player out of nowhere. They already have the makings of a movie here. It is really annoying though. This is approaching the levels of the Tebow fiasco. I think some people want him to fail, just so we don't have to hear about it anymore. It really gets that bad. They ruin a good story.

[DamnYanks2]

Re: Jeremy Lin

Not to get OT, But hell, where's the love for Novak, he's shooting at a ridiculous clip right now. He kind of blossomed at the same time that Lin did, it seemed.

[Pared]

Re: Jeremy Lin

Probably in the NY Knicks thread. Doesn't make sense to find it in the Lin thread.

[DamnYanks2]

Re: Jeremy Lin

Probably in the NY Knicks thread. Doesn't make sense to find it in the Lin thread.

Oh yea, good point! I hate to say it LMAO but ESPN get on this!

[SteelersFreak]

Re: Jeremy Lin

Not to get OT, But hell, where's the love for Novak, he's shooting at a ridiculous clip right now. He kind of blossomed at the same time that Lin did, it seemed.

Pretty ridiculous they put Durant in the 3 point shootout as a replacement for Joe Johnson over him.

[ThePPL]

Re: Jeremy Lin

This Linsanity train feels like it's been slowly dying ever since the Knicks lost to the Nets. But I don't think it's over. We were just so accustomed to seeing this guy continue constantly winning and helping his team that everything was looking sky high for him. Now after a couple of losses and a really big one that occurred yesterday, his hype has now come back down to earth a little bit. But if Lin can overcome his lost from yesterday and I think he will because he seems like a very confident individual who's not afraid of playing hard, it would make his season become exciting to watch again because people like witnessing comebacks.

Although Lin's turnovers are terrible, his positives mostly outweigh his negatives. (He's not afraid of driving to the basket, being a scorer when the team needs him to, unselfish player through assisting the ball when seeing the opportunity, occasional 3-point shooter, positioning himself to draw a charging foul on his opponent, been stealing a lot more balls as of late)

I'm kind of 50/50 on his court vision. I've seen him make some Steve Nash-esque passes, and mostly make good decisions when not being pressured. But I can't deny it when I see two guys doubling him and see him force an ugly turnover.

If you have also seen enough of his plays, his turnovers are not all based on poor decisions, it's a lot to due with having poor ball security as well. Hopefully he improves on this issue during the offseason.

[CMH]

Re: Jeremy Lin

I look at it like this. If Lin struggles against every elite team (of which there are like 4 in the league) and throws up 26 points, 10 assists against the rest of the league (of which there are 25 others) then I'll take it.

It's laughable that people are saying "This could be what it is!"

It was against the Heat. Arguable the best defensive and offensive team in the league. No one is mentioning how Anthony shot poorly. How Davis shot poorly. Everyone but Novak pretty much shot poorly.

The Heat shut down the Knicks. They didn't just shut down Lin. They shut down that entire roster. It's because the Heats are one of the 4 best teams in the league. They should have blown out the Knicks. The fact they were up only 4 at halftime after all the turnovers is more ridiculous. And Spoestra probably said that so the Heat went super crazy in the 2nd half.

I can't wait to see the Knicks fans that have suddenly started saying Lin isn't a good ballplayer come back and rejoin the wagon when he beats up on his next opponent - which happens to be the Cavs. If he goes 1-7 with 10 turnovers and 2 assists then I can understand the talk.

[King_B_Mack]

Re: Jeremy Lin

Do we really have to go through this crap with every flavor of the month that comes along? When Lin was riding high and Linsanity started guys were in here talking about how he was making Jeffries look like a star and **** like that. The first down game Lin had suddenly it turned into 'well if Jeffries was hitting his shots' even though Lin singlehandedly willed him into making them before (sarcasm).

Lin gets shut down by the Heat and suddenly Carmelo wasn't making shots (nevermind the dude is two games into a return from a injury stint) and the whole roster got shut down, not just Lin. It just never ceases to amaze me how we give one guy credit for all the wins a teams get and the secodn they start losing or he plays poorly, everybody but that guys is the reason.