2014 Off-Season Thread

[23]

Re: 2014 Off-Season Thread

Man the debate in here you'd think love is prime Cwebb.

I'd make Flip sweat if I were cleveland. He has little wiggle room right now and even less later

[jeebs9]

Re: 2014 Off-Season Thread

I don't think Love is a HOFer right now I just think he's on the right track, he's put up some amazing stats but I'm also a huge fan of his game which is what this discussion basically is.

The Bosh comparison idk, I feel Love is the better offensive player and rebounder but obviously not as good of a defender

And I think that's my underlining problem with Love is. I know it's not the Heat. Bosh defense was super underrated for the Heat.

And just thought of how good Wiggins has been on the defensive end. Only seems like he will get better. The Heat proved you don't need a rebounding big men to win a title. Team rebounding is great. But you need a strong defense to push through.

[ojandpizza]

Re: 2014 Off-Season Thread

This is what worries me.. You trade Wiggins, who would be in lock for a cheap contract for what, 3-5 years?

Let's just say they trade Wiggins + Bennett for Love, that's the "rumor".. Let's say they don't win a ring and Love decides he doesn't want to sign long term, so he just randomly leaves.

Waiters didn't even like being a 2nd option last year and made that clear. So let's just say that getting moved down to a 4th option doesn't sit well with him, so in a couple years he leaves or demands a trade.

You then have Cleveland without their last 3 first round picks, and without the guy they traded two of them for. Basically they go from having one of the best offseasons in sports history and turning it in to one of the worst.. Which does actually sound like the Cleveland thing to do lol..

We can also look at the injury aspect.. Love has never played a full season. What if he gets hurt? Even worse what if Varejao gets hurt. After trading for Love they have no space to sign a back up big.. Love is forced to slide to center. lol


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[cima]

Re: 2014 Off-Season Thread

Love is good man. He checks out in the advanced stats that matter, specifically PER and Win Shares. Kevin Love had a 26.9 PER and 14.3 Win Shares.

Win Shares:
1. Kevin Durant-OKC 19.2
2. LeBron James-MIA 15.9
3. Kevin Love-MIN 14.3
4. Stephen Curry-GSW 13.4
5. James Harden-HOU 12.8
6. Blake Griffin-LAC 12.2
7. Chris Paul-LAC 12.2
8. Kyle Lowry-TOR 11.7
9. Joakim Noah-CHI 11.2
10. DeAndre Jordan-LAC 11.1
11. Dirk Nowitzki-DAL 10.9
12. Paul George-IND 10.8
13. Carmelo Anthony-NYK 10.7
14. Anthony Davis-NOP 10.4
15. Goran Dragic-PHO 10.3
16. Andre Drummond-DET 9.9
17. Serge Ibaka-OKC 9.6
18. Damian Lillard-POR 9.6
19. Robin Lopez-POR 9.5
20. DeMar DeRozan-TOR 8.8

Notice that only 4 of the top 20 were guys that didn't make the playoffs? Dude just really needs a change of scenery.

[ojandpizza]

Re: 2014 Off-Season Thread

I definitely see your point, but should we not take into account that one of the number 1 picks, Bennet, has not performed at the caliber of a first round pick and that the 1st round pick will probably be in the very late 20s? I feel like people are too focused on the titles "number 1 draft pick" and "first round pick", not on the players themselves.

You mean just like they are focused on the title "star" and for some reason think Cleveland needs another one to compete in the east?


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[Boltman]

Re: 2014 Off-Season Thread

Holy ****.

I can't wait to see this team get lit up.

What a jerk lol.

[ojandpizza]

Re: 2014 Off-Season Thread

And I think that's my underlining problem with Love is. I know it's not the Heat. Bosh defense was super underrated for the Heat.



And just thought of how good Wiggins has been on the defensive end. Only seems like he will get better. The Heat proved you don't need a rebounding big men to win a title. Team rebounding is great. But you need a strong defense to push through.

Varejao actually rebounds just as well as Love when given equal minutes, and Thompson is another 10 per game as well.. They don't need rebounding anyways.


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[Boltman]

Re: 2014 Off-Season Thread

Would Love actually lose the 'loser' label by going to Cleveland?

Knowing OSers, he would not. He would get a new label, that of a coat tail riding loser that needed LBJ to shake the loser title.

[butchmcdoo]

Re: 2014 Off-Season Thread

You mean just like they are focused on the title "star" and for some reason think Cleveland needs another one to compete in the east?


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I mean is that really the reason they want Kevin Love or do they really just want a good basketball player that can help?

I remember people liking Kevin Love in the past before all of these trade talks started. I am not really sure what has changed since then.

[SPTO]

Re: 2014 Off-Season Thread

Would Love actually lose the 'loser' label by going to Cleveland?

Knowing OSers, he would not. He would get a new label, that of a coat tail riding loser that needed LBJ to shake the loser title.

I could see that for sure.

I don't really see Love as a loser, more like a guy with talent who's been on a crap team but he isn't a true elite player IMO. I could be wrong and if so i'll eat my hat but for now that's what i'm going with

Another thing that I don't understand is this, Lebron isn't exactly an old man. He can afford to grow with the youthful nucleus the Cavs have right now but it's such a "now now now" mentality in sports and in life in general that we all forget that.

[cima]

Re: 2014 Off-Season Thread

I mean is that really the reason they want Kevin Love or do they really just want a good basketball player that can help?

I remember people liking Kevin Love in the past before all of these trade talks started. I am not really sure what has changed since then.

It's because Andrew Wiggins is the golden boy right now and golden boys are not supposed to be traded.

Love is good and no doubt he would help Cleveland, but keeping Wiggins gives you so much more long term.

[AC]

Re: 2014 Off-Season Thread

I've never understood how a front office's incompetence consistently leads to great players getting some sort of "perennial loser" label. It's not K-Love's fault that the Timberwolves have done some pretty stupid ****.

[ProfessaPackMan]

Re: 2014 Off-Season Thread

I really question your ability to judge talent if you think teams have taken less than what Love has had to the playoffs in the WC. Who this year went to the playoffs in the WC that had less talent than Minnesota? Dallas? Nope. Memphis? Nope. Phoenix didn't even make it and they won 8 more games than Minnesota.

2012-13 is a wash because Love only played 18 games.

2011-12? Was he supposed to go to the playoffs that year? With rookie PG Ricky Rubio, second year pro Nikola Pekovic, Luke Ridnour, the immortal Michael Beasley, and superstar rookie Derrick Williams?

Or how about 2010-11 when he had basically the same team as 11-12 minus Ricky Rubio and Darko Milicic as their starting center?

You are seriously reaching big time if you think Love has ever had enough talent around him to make the playoffs period, let alone the Western Conference.

Come on now, it ain't like either one of us are experts in evaluating NBA talent otherwise we wouldn't be on a Message Board right now so let's not play the "I question your ability to judge talent" card as if you're Jerry ****ing West bro, so you can miss me with that LOL.

As for the rest of your post, it's like 13 said earlier, he hasn't lead the Wolves to anything significant and guys have definitely done more with less and with Love being as great/elite as you and some advanced stats make him out to be, he should be able to elevate the play of others around him, right? I mean we've seen other "elite" players throughout history do this while playing in crap systems so why can't he do it?

Do I think Kevin Love is a loser? No but at the same time, you cannot dispute that he has not done anything of significance since he's been in the league, so if he's not a loser, he damn sure isn't a winner right now. And let's remember, Love isn't the only player in the league to have an incompentent FO either.

And tone down the hyperbole, nobody is calling Wiggins the Golden Boy or trying to make him as Mr. Untouchable. All people are saying is that there is no reason to move him right now without seeing how he and Bron could play and if Love is so adamant on playing in Cleveland like he supposedly says he is, then he'll have no problem waiting because he'll end up there eventually.

What Cleveland needs to not do is repeat what the Knicks did when they acquired Melo a few years ago when instead of gutting half of their roster, they could've easily waited until the Offseason since he was going to sign there anyway.

[ojandpizza]

Re: 2014 Off-Season Thread

I mean is that really the reason they want Kevin Love or do they really just want a good basketball player that can help?



I remember people liking Kevin Love in the past before all of these trade talks started. I am not really sure what has changed since then.

I love Kevin Love, just not for the price of these trades. He could add much more to a team that needs his strengths, Cleveland isn't hurting in any area he's great in.


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[wwharton]

Re: 2014 Off-Season Thread

95% of the internet lol. Who has called him old? Anyone calling him old is clueless, the dude is 25.

That part was a continued response to a post someone else made in here. But I think your post is in the same category. Who is calling him a loser? Saying "He's never made the playoffs" speaks of inexperience in the post season and is a legit concern to people saying the Cavs are a title contender immediately if they sign him... has nothing to do with him being a loser.

I don't think Love is a HOFer right now I just think he's on the right track, he's put up some amazing stats but I'm also a huge fan of his game which is what this discussion basically is.

The Bosh comparison idk, I feel Love is the better offensive player and rebounder but obviously not as good of a defender

Bosh averaged 24 and 11 with great percentage stats across the board his last year in Toronto. And to be clear, I think Love is a great player and I still think Bosh is a great player. I'm just pointing out the difference in Bosh's numbers (and the perception of his game) when he went to play with Lebron.

By the way, unfortunately, the discussion isn't about being a fan of his game. I love Love's game (no pun intended) and I think most people do... that doesn't mean the Cavs should trade Wiggins for him right now. For some reason people think that suggestion means we don't like Love.

I've never understood how a front office's incompetence consistently leads to great players getting some sort of "perennial loser" label. It's not K-Love's fault that the Timberwolves have done some pretty stupid ****.

Again, who is calling him a loser?