2014 Off-Season Thread

[ojandpizza]

Re: 2014 Off-Season Thread

Nobody is giving Kevin Love a "loser" label.. But everyone is saying he helps this team "win now".. Nobody knows that he can do that because nobody had ever saw him playing playoff basketball, especially as a 3rd option or off ball guy.

It's not about being a "loser" it's about him having just as much playoff experience as Wiggins does.

It's just hard to say Love puts them over the top, when he hasn't even started up the hill on his own yet..

Yes Kyrie hasn't made the playoffs either, and yes both players have been on bad teams. The difference is Kyrie is already on the team and he's the starting point guard.. Nobody is trading 3 first round picks to get him, and Cleveland has power forward depth already.. It's not even comparable worth mentioning honestly.


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[AC]

Re: 2014 Off-Season Thread

Again, who is calling him a loser?

Not necessarily guys on here. Just the royal you of the basketball fans I know. I feel like there are people who have that label on him.

[cima]

Re: 2014 Off-Season Thread

Come on now, it ain't like either one of us are experts in evaluating NBA talent otherwise we wouldn't be on a Message Board right now so let's not play the "I question your ability to judge talent" card as if you're Jerry ****ing West bro, so you can miss me with that LOL.

As for the rest of your post, it's like 13 said earlier, he hasn't lead the Wolves to anything significant and guys have definitely done more with less and with Love being as great/elite as you and some advanced stats make him out to be, he should be able to elevate the play of others around him, right? I mean we've seen other "elite" players throughout history do this while playing in crap systems so why can't he do it?

Do I think Kevin Love is a loser? No but at the same time, you cannot dispute that he has not done anything of significance since he's been in the league, so if he's not a loser, he damn sure isn't a winner right now. And let's remember, Love isn't the only player in the league to have an incompentent FO either.

And tone down the hyperbole, nobody is calling Wiggins the Golden Boy or trying to make him as Mr. Untouchable. All people are saying is that there is no reason to move him right now without seeing how he and Bron could play and if Love is so adamant on playing in Cleveland like he supposedly says he is, then he'll have no problem waiting because he'll end up there eventually.

What Cleveland needs to not do is repeat what the Knicks did when they acquired Melo a few years ago when instead of gutting half of their roster, they could've easily waited until the Offseason since he was going to sign there anyway.

I gave you clear, indisputable evidence as to why he has not made the playoffs, pointing out how bad his teams have been. You've now TWICE said "other players have done more with less" without any evidence and unless you can clearly show me who has done more with less, you're talking out of your ***.

You don't need to tell me anything on the Wiggins front; I've made my stance on that very clear and my argument with you has nothing to do with Wiggins or if they should trade Wiggins for Love (no they should not). This is about the unfair label Kevin Love has been given as a loser because he has never been placed in a position to win. Don't underestimate how important that is. How many teams succeed if they are not setup into position to succeed?

Again, show me who has done more with LESS than K Love has and I will re-examine my stance, but until then your argument has zero merit.

[cima]

Re: 2014 Off-Season Thread

Not necessarily guys on here. Just the royal you of the basketball fans I know. I feel like there are people who have that label on him.

Tons of people, especially on other forums have given him this label and I'm sure I've seen it on here too, I just can't pinpoint it.

[Vni]

Re: 2014 Off-Season Thread

I wonder how bad is Love defense really? Anyone watched a lot of him? How is he in the post? On the P'n'R? On close outs?

I haven't watched enough of him to have a clear opinion on the subject. I keep hearing he plays no defense though.

[ojandpizza]

Re: 2014 Off-Season Thread

I wonder how bad is Love defense really? Anyone watched a lot of him? How is he in the post? On the P'n'R? On close outs?

I haven't watched enough of him to have a clear opinion on the subject. I keep hearing he plays no defense though.

It's really not as bad as it's made out to be IMO. But still a slight downgrade.


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[King_B_Mack]

Re: 2014 Off-Season Thread

I gave you clear, indisputable evidence as to why he has not made the playoffs, pointing out how bad his teams have been. You've now TWICE said "other players have done more with less" without any evidence and unless you can clearly show me who has done more with less, you're talking out of your ***.

You don't need to tell me anything on the Wiggins front; I've made my stance on that very clear and my argument with you has nothing to do with Wiggins or if they should trade Wiggins for Love (no they should not). This is about the unfair label Kevin Love has been given as a loser because he has never been placed in a position to win. Don't underestimate how important that is. How many teams succeed if they are not setup into position to succeed?

Again, show me who has done more with LESS than K Love has and I will re-examine my stance, but until then your argument has zero merit.

Dirk Nowitzki. See the majority of the 2000's

EDIT: See also, Bryant, Kobe 2005, 2006

[AC]

Re: 2014 Off-Season Thread

http://espn.go.com/nba/story/_/id/11232868/cleveland-cavaliers-minnesota-timberwolves-talking-trade-involving-kevin-love-andrew-wiggins-anthony-bennett

In an attempt to add Love, a three-time All-Star, the Cavaliers are willing to part with Andrew Wiggins and Anthony Bennett.

One source said the Cavs also are willing to give up a first-round draft pick for next season. Any other players involved in the talks are not known.

At one point, a trade seemed close to happening, but Minnesota wants more than the Cavaliers are currently offering, sources said.

Absolute and utter incompetence on both fronts.

[King_B_Mack]

Re: 2014 Off-Season Thread

http://espn.go.com/nba/story/_/id/11...nthony-bennett


Absolute and utter incompetence on both fronts.

Cavs, Wolves talk Kevin Love trade
Updated: July 18, 2014, 5:13 PM ET
By Chris Broussard | ESPN The Magazine

This is who published that story. You sure you want to take that as gospel at this point?

[Vni]

Re: 2014 Off-Season Thread

Minnesota will end up with nothing next summer.

[Vni]

Re: 2014 Off-Season Thread

It's really not as bad as it's made out to be IMO. But still a slight downgrade.


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I wonder why is it so often the case with star players that their lack of defense is overrated somehow.

[Yeah...THAT Guy]

2014 Off-Season Thread

@TSNJFranklin: Cavs team sources say that they have NOT offered @22wiggins in a trade for Kevin Love and they are close to signing their 1st overall pick

I still think Minnesota is leaking that Cleveland is offering Wiggins to get Golden State to offer Thompson.

[Rocky]

Re: 2014 Off-Season Thread

I just don't understand why the Cavs want to commit that much money to three players. The Heat proved that was a risky proposition.

[King_B_Mack]

Re: 2014 Off-Season Thread

@TSNJFranklin: Cavs team sources say that they have NOT offered @22wiggins in a trade for Kevin Love and they are close to signing their 1st overall pick

I still think Minnesota is leaking that Cleveland is offering Wiggins to get Golden State to offer Thompson.

Like I said. Keep making that clown Broussard look more and more like an idiot everyday.

[WTF]

Re: 2014 Off-Season Thread

I don't believe a thing Broussard says. This crap needs to stop

Sign Wiggins already Cavs. Commit to him. Develop he and Bennett. Lebron at 30 years of age doesn't want to chase the best player on the opposing squad around on defense. Wiggins keeps him from doing that. If you have Love, then Lebron has to exert even more on the defensive end.

Love can rebound, Love can shoot. We have guys who can do that already. Sign Wiggins, move forward through the season. Let them gel as a unit, and if it's not workng towards the trade deadline, then sure, get involved.