2014 Off-Season Thread

[redsrule]

Re: 2014 Off-Season Thread

Everyone still ignoring that Kevin Love has never stayed healthy for a full season of basketball yet, nor does he have playoff experience.


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Played 77 games last year. Played in 81 his rookie year too.

[cavsfan2]

Re: 2014 Off-Season Thread

It would be really dirty of the Bulls to sign Mirotic and then trade him in a deal to the T-Wolves.

Not as dirty as the Cavs would be if they told wiggins they wouldn't trade him only to deal him shortly after

[ojandpizza]

Re: 2014 Off-Season Thread

Played 77 games last year. Played in 81 his rookie year too.

I wasn't even looking at his rookie year, he wasn't even a full time starter then and wasn't really playing enough minutes for the wear of the season to start taking it's tole.

My point is, he's always getting hurt. Just another reason not to trade 3 first round (2 number 1 overall) picks for him.


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[iLLosophy]

Re: 2014 Off-Season Thread

Quote by Thibs talking about Taj vs Gasol starting:

"I don't know how it's going to unfold," he said. "Who will be starter, who's finishing. Maybe we change as we go. We're going to see once we get everyone there together. We're always going to do what's best for the team. One thing I would say is, I know all three will have a significant role. I told Pau that when we went to visit with him."

So maybe Pau would be good with coming off the bench if Love comes over. If he was cool with coming off the bench for Taj, then he should be cool with doing it for Love.

Love definitely wouldn't be happy coming off the bench.

I really don't want to lose McBuckets though.

[ojandpizza]

Re: 2014 Off-Season Thread

One of these teams is going to gut their depth in a trade for Love and ruin their chances of contending IMO.

GS has the best shot at actually improving IMO. If they swap Lee for Love and take Martin back for including Klay they don't lose any depth and greatly improve their line up... Even if they don't take Martin back they still have decent perimeter depth, especially after adding Livingston this offseason..

Idk why they are so hesitant to pull off that trade.


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[JODYE]

Re: 2014 Off-Season Thread

Too bad the Bulls can't hop in somehow and cash in on this future mortgage.

Toss up Gibson or someone and a pick to get Wiggins in a 3 way trade? I'd do it.

[ojandpizza]

Re: 2014 Off-Season Thread

Hell if I was Minny I would even jump all over the Waiters, Bennett, and future first move, if that rumor is even true.. I still think that's a bit too much to offer for Love though..

@13 even if it wasn't Wiggins, if you guys landed Martin, or outside shot at Waiters or something I think it would be an improvement. Especially if all you had to give up was Taj.


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[King_B_Mack]

Re: 2014 Off-Season Thread

But do the Cavs really need rebounding that desperately?

Without Love, or LeBron for that matter, they were the 5th best team in the East rebounding the basketball.

I wasn't saying they needed rebounding, because they don't. I was speaking to whoever it was acting like Love was gonna go from averaging damn near 13 rebounds per game to 6 because Bosh did playing with LeBron. Playing with LeBron wasn't the reason for that as I pointed out.

Too bad the Bulls can't hop in somehow and cash in on this future mortgage.

Toss up Gibson or someone and a pick to get Wiggins in a 3 way trade? I'd do it.

Wait, you'd trade Taj for Wiggins? You wouldn't trade him for Love though? How does this work?


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[WTF]

Re: 2014 Off-Season Thread

If the Bulls were truly offering their package, I'd snatch that up in a heartbeat.

[wwharton]

Re: 2014 Off-Season Thread

I'd say that Bosh's rebounding dip is more about his own laziness and playing on the perimeter more than anything. LeBron wasn't a double digit rebounding guy in Miami. There is no reason Bosh should have been getting 6-7 rebound per game seasons down there. Boozer was still averaging 8-9 rebounds a game despite playing with Noah averaging 10+ and splitting big minutes with Taj. Rebounding is about effort. Love isn't going to take a dip that drastic just because he's playing with LeBron


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I'm not sure why everyone generally focuses on offensive rebounding when talking about this, but Bosh was obviously asked to be less of a post player which takes him farther from the basket on offense... which leads to less rebounding opportunities.

It's actually a pretty lazy analysis to say Bosh was lazy.

[King_B_Mack]

Re: 2014 Off-Season Thread

I'm not sure why everyone generally focuses on offensive rebounding when talking about this, but Bosh was obviously asked to be less of a post player which takes him farther from the basket on offense... which leads to less rebounding opportunities.



It's actually a pretty lazy analysis to say Bosh was lazy.

I did say playing on the perimeter in there too my man. There was some laziness on his part as well though. He wasn't ALWAYS away from the basket.


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[ojandpizza]

Re: 2014 Off-Season Thread

Idk if calling him a lazy rebounder is the right way to word it, though I've called him the same myself, but he definitely doesn't exert the extra effort you would expect from a "superstar", 19mil a year player, when it comes to rebounding.. Especially in the playoffs where he's the tallest, and most capable rebounder in the majority of their line ups..

Just barely over 4 defensive boards per game in this years playoffs. And a career average of 5.5.. He can do much better than that, especially since Miami used him at the 5 so often with LeBron and Battier/Lewis at PF over the past couple seasons now. He had all the opportunity in the world, if it's not within his reach he just doesn't chase it. Plain and simple.

His effort plays (or lack of) were always my biggest complaint during this entire "big 3" run though. He has loads of talent and was one of the few players who could allow them to accomplish what they did and fit their style.. But it gets hard to not to harp on a guy of that caliber who takes off so many plays.. Mainly just because you can see the impact he has when he does play more aggressive and demanding.

Idk how it compared to him playing in Toronto. I saw him playing there, but not 80% of their games like I did once he moved on to Miami. I know he was never really overly "aggressive". But it's not really about aggression, it's about doing everything you can to earn a win, better yet TAKE the win, rather than just doing enough to barely squeak by.. And that's how I feel Bosh played the majority of the time he was on the court.

It's to be expected during the regular season, but he needed to understand when to turn it on come playoff time. Not just for the 4 minutes LeBron spent on the bench, or just the last 2 minutes of 4th quarters. He could have and should have brought that intensity into every game.. I just don't believe Bosh is one of those "leave it all of the floor" guys.. Maybe it's unfair for me to think he should be, maybe my criticism is unwarranted.

Sorry that turned into a Bosh rant lol.


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[ProfessaPackMan]

Re: 2014 Off-Season Thread

Most of it is unwarranted/over the top.

No offense.

[JODYE]

Re: 2014 Off-Season Thread

I wasn't saying they needed rebounding, because they don't. I was speaking to whoever it was acting like Love was gonna go from averaging damn near 13 rebounds per game to 6 because Bosh did playing with LeBron. Playing with LeBron wasn't the reason for that as I pointed out.




Wait, you'd trade Taj for Wiggins? You wouldn't trade him for Love though? How does this work?


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Did I say this somewhere? Honest question. Because I would trade Taj for Love definitely if we were just comparing the two players. Not the package that they want to give up tho, which is half the damn roster. One of the reasons it isn't worth it, in addition to not needing Love on our team as currently constructed and because Gibson is a great fit in our system.

And yes, I would be willing to gamble on Wiggins and the potential he has to become a franchise player for Taj who is nearing 30, and has already reached his peak as a player. One thing the Bulls have lacked for a while is a a guy who can consistently create his shot from the perimeter. I'd take a chance on Wiggins being that guy if all it took was Taj and a pick or something close.

[wwharton]

Re: 2014 Off-Season Thread

I did say playing on the perimeter in there too my man. There was some laziness on his part as well though. He wasn't ALWAYS away from the basket.


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But you just throw out "lazy" as if it's a basketball term, lol. Lazy how? OJ went into more detail but I don't think it's fair to call him lazy and just throw out that the system he was in may have contributed as well like that's just an aside... the LAZY is the main factor.

Idk if calling him a lazy rebounder is the right way to word it, though I've called him the same myself, but he definitely doesn't exert the extra effort you would expect from a "superstar", 19mil a year player, when it comes to rebounding.. Especially in the playoffs where he's the tallest, and most capable rebounder in the majority of their line ups..

Just barely over 4 defensive boards per game in this years playoffs. And a career average of 5.5.. He can do much better than that, especially since Miami used him at the 5 so often with LeBron and Battier/Lewis at PF over the past couple seasons now. He had all the opportunity in the world, if it's not within his reach he just doesn't chase it. Plain and simple.

His effort plays (or lack of) were always my biggest complaint during this entire "big 3" run though. He has loads of talent and was one of the few players who could allow them to accomplish what they did and fit their style.. But it gets hard to not to harp on a guy of that caliber who takes off so many plays.. Mainly just because you can see the impact he has when he does play more aggressive and demanding.

Idk how it compared to him playing in Toronto. I saw him playing there, but not 80% of their games like I did once he moved on to Miami. I know he was never really overly "aggressive". But it's not really about aggression, it's about doing everything you can to earn a win, better yet TAKE the win, rather than just doing enough to barely squeak by.. And that's how I feel Bosh played the majority of the time he was on the court.

It's to be expected during the regular season, but he needed to understand when to turn it on come playoff time. Not just for the 4 minutes LeBron spent on the bench, or just the last 2 minutes of 4th quarters. He could have and should have brought that intensity into every game.. I just don't believe Bosh is one of those "leave it all of the floor" guys.. Maybe it's unfair for me to think he should be, maybe my criticism is unwarranted.

Sorry that turned into a Bosh rant lol.


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We've discussed this in terms of Bosh so I won't rehash that, but I will talk about why I think is significant in comparison to Love. I don't think Love is that "hustle" player either. Someone disputing that thought by saying "he got 12 rpg" can just look at Bosh who got 11 rpg as the main clog on an average team. It's kind of weird bc I think we agree for the most part on Love... but that's why I didn't think adding Bosh to James/Wade would have the same impact others did. Even then I think I said someone like Birdman would be a better fit. Anyway, I'm going off on a tangent a bit, but the point is both Bosh and Love are great at what they're great at. Love to the Cavs, he'd still be great, but what he's great at isn't exactly what they need (what you've said over and over). The end result will likely be people criticizing him for not doing more, but that's just bc it'll be clear that they need more than what he's good at.

And "more" is relative of course... the Heat went to 4 finals and won 2 so obviously what Bosh gave them was plenty good enough. But listen to all the talk about him. He averaged 17 and 7 and was the key to the back end of their defense but he's being called lazy. He's great at what he's good at, and the Heat didn't need him to show all of those areas... the same would be true for Love on the Cavs. And it would also shine a bigger spotlight on what he's not good at if they don't find other areas to fill those holes (with little money to work with down the road, bc he'll need to be signed to a big contract extension).