2014 Off-Season Thread

[ProfessaPackMan]

Re: 2014 Off-Season Thread

The end result will likely be people criticizing him for not doing more, but that's just bc it'll be clear that they need more than what he's good at.

He's great at what he's good at, and the Heat didn't need him to show all of those areas... the same would be true for Love on the Cavs. And it would also shine a bigger spotlight on what he's not good at if they don't find other areas to fill those holes (with little money to work with down the road, bc he'll need to be signed to a big contract extension).

Couldn't agree more.

[DJ_Solis]

Re: 2014 Off-Season Thread

just don't believe Bosh is one of those "leave it all of the floor" guys..

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Do you think Love is one of those guys?


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[King_B_Mack]

Re: 2014 Off-Season Thread

But you just throw out "lazy" as if it's a basketball term, lol. Lazy how? OJ went into more detail but I don't think it's fair to call him lazy and just throw out that the system he was in may have contributed as well like that's just an aside... the LAZY is the main factor.







We've discussed this in terms of Bosh so I won't rehash that, but I will talk about why I think is significant in comparison to Love. I don't think Love is that "hustle" player either. Someone disputing that thought by saying "he got 12 rpg" can just look at Bosh who got 11 rpg as the main clog on an average team. It's kind of weird bc I think we agree for the most part on Love... but that's why I didn't think adding Bosh to James/Wade would have the same impact others did. Even then I think I said someone like Birdman would be a better fit. Anyway, I'm going off on a tangent a bit, but the point is both Bosh and Love are great at what they're great at. Love to the Cavs, he'd still be great, but what he's great at isn't exactly what they need (what you've said over and over). The end result will likely be people criticizing him for not doing more, but that's just bc it'll be clear that they need more than what he's good at.



And "more" is relative of course... the Heat went to 4 finals and won 2 so obviously what Bosh gave them was plenty good enough. But listen to all the talk about him. He averaged 17 and 7 and was the key to the back end of their defense but he's being called lazy. He's great at what he's good at, and the Heat didn't need him to show all of those areas... the same would be true for Love on the Cavs. And it would also shine a bigger spotlight on what he's not good at if they don't find other areas to fill those holes (with little money to work with down the road, bc he'll need to be signed to a big contract extension).

I'm posting from a cell phone at work. Sorry I couldn't go into vast detail. I guess lazy sounds a lot more harsh than I'm actually thinking of him, but I think with a little more effort on his part he could have done better than 6 boards a game. That's accounting for offense and defense. What's the system on defense keeping him from doing a little better there? OJ did a great job explaining it. It's easy to call him lazy, it's even easier to look at what he didn't do and just say it was the system, they won 2 championships so it's all good.


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[ojandpizza]

2014 Off-Season Thread

Do you think Love is one of those guys?


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Honestly I don't know. It's tough without really watching a ton of their games like I did with Bosh. I mean I've obviously saw everyone in the league play, I know their numbers, but you can't really understand tendencies entirely unless you've watched someone play "enough"..

One thing I couldn't stand about Bosh is that he seemed "content" with constantly letting his opponent outplay him. Obviously everyone gave their all against the Heat, and the Heat didn't always need 100% from the big 3 in order to steal wins.. But Bosh would almost night in and night out get outplayed by average guys..

It might not show in the box score, because if Bosh hit 3 or 4 jumpers the box score will likely tell you that Bosh was the better player. Those few open jumpers might make him the high scoring, or second high scoring man.. But watching him night in and night out you can see it. His man would almost always over perform according to his averages, they beat Bosh to loose balls, they get all the rebounds, they beat him up the court, etc.. It's just a very annoying habit to watch. And what I consider a bad habit to have as a "leader".

I can't imagine too many "stars" being that way. Being content with letting even scrubs routinely outplay them. Love doesn't seem like that type of guy now, and maybe he would appear that way after he takes a back seat.. But I see Love and most other guys having too much pride to let that happen. Maybe Bosh doesn't have as much pride in himself, maybe that's why he adapted so well to being a 3rd option.. But you have to draw the line somewhere, you can't just be fine with your matchup getting the better of you.

I don't think Love would be quite the same.. But I do agree with pretty much everything wwharton has said about him going to Cleveland. And don't think they really need what he offers.




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[BleacherBum2310]

2014 Off-Season Thread

Hell if I was Minny I would even jump all over the Waiters, Bennett, and future first move, if that rumor is even true.. I still think that's a bit too much to offer for Love though..




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wait what? too much? Seriously. this is for Love right?

am I missing something. I have to be.



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[ojandpizza]

Re: 2014 Off-Season Thread

wait what? too much? Seriously. this is for Love right?

am I missing something.



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On paper I think it looks like a good move, though 2 lottery picks plus a first for 1 lottery pick looks like a steal for Minny to me.

But mainly, like I've said 100 times, Cleveland isn't hurting for a rebounder, nor extra stretch guys.. It's basically adding another "star" just because you can. Rather than looking at what fits your team and your team needs.

But right now depth and potential is more valuable to Cleveland, IMO..

Right now we don't know what Waiters will become.. He had a better rookie year than Love, and arguably equal 2nd year, especially considering he was a 2nd option.. Who's to say he doesn't breakout this year like Love did in his third year??

Completely hypothetical here.. But if Waiters ends up being what Lance was for Indiana, and Bennett ends up becoming a Paul Millsap type player or even just a decent sub.. And on top of that they keep their 1st and have Miami's 1st (if I'm not mistaken).. That's better than just Kevin Love, IMO.

Cleveland should wait this out.. If Waiters needs to be traded they can move him. If Wiggins isn't what they thought and Waiters breaks out they can trade Wiggins, etc. etc.. They have so many pieces that are valuable right now, along with picks.. I just don't think it makes sense to move a large chunk of them for just one guy..

If a stretch 4 becomes a big need for them I think they can fill that need for MUCH cheaper than what Love will cost them. And without absolutely killing their depth.


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[turty11]

Re: 2014 Off-Season Thread

learn from the spurs cleveland. Multiple "role player"s who are versatile beats the star who can do his one/two things. not to mention when one/two of these role players can turn into all-stars possibly..


BTW oj, i think youve written like 50 pages of a book with your posts today ^^

[dsallupinyaarea]

Re: 2014 Off-Season Thread

We've officially jumped the shark on Kevin Love criticism. It's like the Daryl Morey thing, but for a player. At first there were legitimate questions but now its just snowballed out of control.

[ojandpizza]

Re: 2014 Off-Season Thread

We've officially jumped the shark on Kevin Love criticism. It's like the Daryl Morey thing, but for a player. At first there were legitimate questions but now its just snowballed out of control.

I haven't given him any criticism. Just don't think a team, that's probably a contender as is, needs to give up half their roster and loads of potential just to land Kevin Love.


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[dsallupinyaarea]

Re: 2014 Off-Season Thread

I haven't given him any criticism. Just don't think a team, that's probably a contender as is, needs to give up half their roster and loads of potential just to land Kevin Love.


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Anthony Bennett just came off arguably the worst rookie season in history for a #1 pick. I see zero indication that he could be a Paul Milsap type player.

Dion Waiters tops out as Lance Stephenson? eh.... ok.

That 1st would be mid to late at best if they got Love.

I'd sign those trade papers immediately if that got me Love. Wouldn't even blink.

And besides that, since when does spare change equal a $1 in basketball? Doesn't the star end of every big trade always win? The Spurs are the exception to every rule and, really, they didn't win their first "role player" title until this year. Before that, they always were built around their big 3. Are you counting on building a 20 year culture around 30 year old Lebron?

Wiggins for Love is an intreresting debate. That package of spare change isn't.

[BlueNGold]

Re: 2014 Off-Season Thread

Yeah, the Kevin Love slander is starting to get a little ridiculous if you ask me.

[ProfessaPackMan]

Re: 2014 Off-Season Thread

Doesn't the star end of every big trade always win?

Not necessarily true.

As for the "slandering" of Kevin Love...well that's what happens when you speak too positive(basically overrating someone)of someone. I don't think it's snowballed out of control because it's not like people are saying "Oh, he's a borderline role player but nothing special" or throwing any other hyperbole out there describing him.

[turty11]

Re: 2014 Off-Season Thread

Anthony Bennett just came off arguably the worst rookie season in history for a #1 pick. I see zero indication that he could be a Paul Milsap type player.

because having surgery, sleep apnea, getting hurt during the year, and having a coach who is a complete moron which refuses to give you minutes equates to one of the worst rookie seasons in history for a #1...no thats for guys who play their minutes and are just horrible...

stop judging off stats and actually watch some games

[ojandpizza]

2014 Off-Season Thread

Waiters with starter minutes is already a 19, 3, 4 player.. Who can handle the ball, play decent defense, and a decent passer though he loves to shoot.. We don't know what he can become but just giving him starter minutes last year yielded a top 5 SG output, statistically speaking..

We don't know anything about Bennett because he barely sniffed playing time last year. He looks like he's in drastically better shape, and even with the "worst year ever" he was 11 and 8 per 36. We don't know how productive he can become, he hasn't gotten his minutes yet..

Like I said though, Cleveland isn't hurting for shooting, rebounding, or for adding a power forward.. If they had to land a superstar their best bet would be a center who's a dominant rim protector, or at least a player who gives back what Wiggins/Dion might add. If this trade was for Dwight Howard, or Paul George then yes I would say pull the trigger.. But they really do not need what Love offers, not to the extend that they have to regress with hopes that 1 player will replace what 3-4 guys could provide..

Nobody knows for sure if he will resign long term either.. We know his heart is in LA, if they don't win the ship he could leave.. Or if they did magically connect and win it all this first year he might be satisfied with that and leave anyways.. Or he could get hurt again, coincidentally right before the playoffs start.. It's just too many "ifs" for my liking.


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[The 24th Letter]

Re: 2014 Off-Season Thread

Not necessarily true..

It is the majority of the time. In fact, there was an insider article about it today...it's more often than not.

That said, I dont think the Cav's should rush to trade for Love, but if they do, I think he's a player that is worth the risk...he's a great player...