2016 NBA Offseason Thread

[areobee401]

re: 2016 NBA Offseason Thread

Wouldn't call Chicago asking for the 5th and Wiggins as centerpieces in a Butler deal ridiculous. He's still under a team friendly contract. It's going to take a lot to pry him away from Chicago.

[JazzMan]

re: 2016 NBA Offseason Thread

Wouldn't call Chicago asking for the 5th and Wiggins as centerpieces in a Butler deal ridiculous. He's still under a team friendly contract. It's going to take a lot to pry him away from Chicago.

I just don't think Butler as a player is worth that much.

[dsallupinyaarea]

re: 2016 NBA Offseason Thread

Maybe it's me. I just don't think Wiggins is that good. I doubt he ever makes an All Star team.

[vtcha]

re: 2016 NBA Offseason Thread

Offensively, Wiggins needs to make some big strides with his shooting this off-season if he wants to live up to his potential (T-Mac comparisons) otherwise he's going plateau at a DeRozan-like ceiling.

Defensively, he has all the tools and Thibs will no doubt challenge him to become better.

[ProfessaPackMan]

re: 2016 NBA Offseason Thread

Wouldn't call Chicago asking for the 5th and Wiggins as centerpieces in a Butler deal ridiculous. He's still under a team friendly contract. It's going to take a lot to pry him away from Chicago.

Not to mention they're going to need someone to build around if they let Butler go. They can very easily be looking at some down years if they let him go so why not ask for 2 cornerstones who can possibly speed up that process?

Fair question to ask, what has Wiggins shown to be considered untouchable other than the fact he's 21?

[ojandpizza]

2016 Offseason Thread

Chicago should be demanding that type of return for Butler. But Minnesota shouldn't trade that to get him.. That's why he's stuck with Chicago IMO.


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[ojandpizza]

re: 2016 NBA Offseason Thread

Fair question to ask, what has Wiggins shown to be considered untouchable other than the fact he's 21?

I don't believe he's untouchable. But why move him with a top 5 pick for a player who so far hasn't shown he can provide anything better than equal production?

They basically mirror each other's production for this past season. Plus Wiggins started this year at 20. Butler's first year as a starter he was 24 giving you 13ppg in nearly 40 minutes. I think it's safe to say that Wiggins seems to, at this point, have the higher ceiling.

He wouldn't/shouldn't be untouchable if it was clear they were getting a big upgrade. I just don't think it is.

[ojandpizza]

re: 2016 NBA Offseason Thread

I'm not even one of the guys super high on Wiggins either.

If Jimmy would have shown to be a guy who could get you 7-8 rebounds or assists, or shown to be a good outside shooter, or still giving the argument against Kawhi as the leagues best defender, or proven he can be that 25-30ppg go to guy, then maybe I would pull the trigger. But he's just not any of those things.

I'm not even sure I wouldn't rather have DeRozan at this point even if it's only because how hard he attacks the basket. He's a top 10 scorer, and even he has a better 3 point percentage than Jimmy.

Just glancing the leagues top scorers, Jimmy was 16th, Wiggins 19th. Wiggins with the better (by a tiny margin) FG%, and also playing slightly less minutes. I just can't make that trade.


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[King_B_Mack]

re: 2016 NBA Offseason Thread

Jimmy started slacking a bit on the defensive side this year because he was starting to feel himself offensively, but let's not act like he wasn't dealing with a knee issue for the majority of the year as a well that affected his defense, not to mention cost him about a month and some change of the season. This is one of those things where not watching games and falling in love with numbers on a spreadsheet bites you in the ***. Jimmy is still up there with Kawhi defensively and every year of his career he's worked his *** off in the offseason and gotten better at something. There's nothing to suggest that this summer will be any different. Especially considering he's seem to have gotten the ego check he needed.

All of this is moot anyway because the Bulls aren't trading Jimmy Butler. If they trade him and certainly if they trade him for just the 5 from Minnesota, GarPax's might have to resign to go into protective custody. Everybody here already wants their heads, Paxson in particular.

[ojandpizza]

re: 2016 NBA Offseason Thread

Yeah King, because all I've done is fall in love with numbers. I don't even watch the NBA.

However, I didn't realize he was so poor of an outside shooter until I looked. FWIW.

A couple years ago Jimmy and Kawhi were both "breaking out". They looked like they would be two of the elite wing men and two-way guys in the league. Fast forward and now Kawhi is THE best perimeter defender in the league, a top 5ish catch and shoot 3 point threat, one of the top rebounding wing players in the league, a more consistent efficient scorer, and Jimmy is still right about were Jimmy was.

I'm not hating on the guy, I'm not questioning him being a hard worker or not. I just don't know how much higher his ceiling is compared to what he is right now. Chicago would be stupid for trading him for just a 5th, they shod absolutely be demanding Wiggins with the trade. But there is just no way Minnesota should do that trade.


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[JazzMan]

re: 2016 NBA Offseason Thread

I'm in the camp that Butler's defense the past two seasons has been overrated. He's a good defender and a great player, no doubt about it, but Wiggins AND the 5th overall pick for him? You don't trade somebody with Wiggins' potential and a 5th overall pick for a guy who is already heading into his mid-late 20s and is just now becoming a go-to-scorer.

Wiggins is almost on Jimmy's level, and he's only 21 years old. Unless I'm getting KD, Kawhi, Steph, AD, PG, Westbrook, Wall, or Harden, I'm hanging onto Wiggins for his potential alone. The kid can't even shoot yet and he's already developing into a go-to-option alongside an even better talent in KAT. I wouldn't break those two up unless I'm getting one of the guys listed above for Wiggins, and that frankly won't happen.

[King_B_Mack]

re: 2016 NBA Offseason Thread

Y'all act like Jimmy is 30 years old, damn lol. Dude is 26 years old and just 5 years into his playing career and once again has used every offseason of his career thus far to get significantly better than he was the previous season. I don't want to hear all this talking about how great he looked two years ago either, because I remember some of y'all in here talking about how he was going to be a bench player and not a viable option as a starter for us before he made his big jump. I'm pretty sure I had this very conversation with you OJ that he wasn't going to work as our 2 guard and that he'd only be a solid defense only guy.

But as I said before, this doesn't even matter because he's not going anywhere. It's that time of year where writers start throwing **** against the wall because it's easy to write, like that Derrick Rose story that 23 posted. That's not to say Derrick isn't going to be moved because I think the team wants to move on from him, but they say in that one that they're "actively open to moving Rose" what the **** does that even mean? How are you actively open to moving someone? If you're trying to move him, you're making calls and being active in trying to find a trade partner. If you're simply open to move somebody, then you're not making calls, but if someone calls asking about them, you're not hanging up on them. It's easy to write Bulls are going to trade Jimmy Butler or Derrick Rose stories because they missed the playoffs and fans are fed up with GarPax. Those goofs should have traded Gasol at the deadline and didn't do that, so I'd pump the brakes on this Jimmy Butler thing anyway. Especially with Minnesota, GarPax wouldn't even talk to Thibs when he was in their building eventually, accepting his phone call and trading their best player to him to start his new job isn't exactly in line with those two's personalities.

[ojandpizza]

re: 2016 NBA Offseason Thread

26 but has missed around 20 games each of the past 2-3 years. Nobody is acting like Jimmy is old, it's just that Wiggins is still really young. I just don't see the big jump he'll make from here forward. He's not a KD type guy, and I don't see him jumping to that from 26 moving forward, that isn't typical of an NBA player.

Like I said if he was a guy who added 6+ assists as a secondary playmaker, a wing guy that grabbed 7-8 board like a Kawhi, KD, Bron, etc, a knock down 3 point threat like Klay, any trait that made him a clear cut better player, or more valuable asset moving forward, then maybe the trade would be justifiable for Minny.

BTW, I believe I was on team Jimmy > Kawhi at the time they were both coming up, unless I'm not remembering correctly.




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[dsallupinyaarea]

re: 2016 NBA Offseason Thread

I must admit, I didn't know Butler was that bad of a shooter. Sheesh.

[The 24th Letter]

re: 2016 NBA Offseason Thread

Still not sold on Wiggins tbh....but 'year 3' is usually the most telling