2018 Off-Season Thread

[dubcity]

Re: 2017-2018 Off-Season Thread

The Raptors 905 squad played the more current pace and space type of basketball being employed by the league today. They were doing it even in the last year of the Raps being an ISO team. Stackhouse was clearly in charge of the identity of that team and won a championship with them a couple years ago and made the Finals this year. He was only an assistant with the Toronto Raptors for a year and wasn't really involved in the gameplanning.

So he isn't an assistant in the same vein you're talking about.

Man, you sure are all in on the guy based on G-league. I mean, I saw that 10 minute segment on Stack in the G-league Finals on NBA TV too, but I wouldn't go crazy over it.

[ojandpizza]

Re: 2017-2018 Off-Season Thread

Not even a comparison. Sloan lost to Jordan twice in the NBA Finals. My dude was literally 2 wins from a championship in back-to-back season whereas when he wasn’t getting curb stomped by LeBron in the playoffs, Casey has been losing to the Nets and the Wizards early every year.



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Yeah, plus I think Sloan even overachieved with that roster and talent, not so much the case with Casey.


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[jfsolo]

Re: 2017-2018 Off-Season Thread

An established coach would be crazy to go to Toronto right now unless he thinks he can develop their young players into stars in a year or two. They have no draft picks in 2018 draft, they are already above the luxury tax threshold for 18-19 before even resigning VanVleet.

The players who should be moved, Ibaka and Lowry are not players who any team should want at their price tag. A lot of people in the basketball world talk up Masai Ujiri as this great basketball mind. It's prove it time.

[JazzMan]

Re: 2017-2018 Off-Season Thread

Calling it now, Cavs get #1 with the Brooklyn pick and scoop up Ayton, leading to Cavs/Warriors V in 2019...

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[z Revis]

Re: 2017-2018 Off-Season Thread

I'm not sure how much I agree with that move. I understand the team needs changes if they want to get out of the early exit level that they are at, but I don't know if that was the move I would have went with.

Just out of curiosity what would you have done?

IMO it’s the best move for them if they’re not going to completely blow it up, which it doesn’t sound like they are. There’s only so much they can do with that roster to improve the team... which I think is very little unless they fleece a team with Lowry, Ibaka or JV. Bringing Casey back and adding a role player or something would’ve been the definition of insanity though.



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[ojandpizza]

Re: 2017-2018 Off-Season Thread

An established coach would be crazy to go to Toronto right now unless he thinks he can develop their young players into stars in a year or two. They have no draft picks in 2018 draft, they are already above the luxury tax threshold for 18-19 before even resigning VanVleet.



The players who should be moved, Ibaka and Lowry are not players who any team should want at their price tag. A lot of people in the basketball world talk up Masai Ujiri as this great basketball mind. It's prove it time.

They ****ed up with the Ibaka move. He’s one of the most overrated players in the league and for what they needed he added virtually nothing to that team. I said it when it happened and it’s still true as of his past series as well.

Also as much as I don’t put all of the blame on Casey I thought his rotations were awful in that series. He couldn’t utilize the mismatch with JV, and when he did go small he rarely moved Ibaka down the the 5 which might have made him worth playing in this particular series. Kept playing Siakam in situations where he shouldn’t have, and ended up with him on LeBron and CJ on Love.. the reversal would have even been a better matchup than those pathetic moves. He watched LeBron score 100 on Siakam and Love go on a 45-0 run by himself with CJ on him then trotted out the same damn thing the next game lol.


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[ojandpizza]

Re: 2017-2018 Off-Season Thread

Just out of curiosity what would you have done?

IMO it’s the best move for them if they’re not going to completely blow it up, which it doesn’t sound like they are. There’s only so much they can do with that roster to improve the team... which I think is very little unless they fleece a team with Lowry, Ibaka or JV. Bringing Casey back and adding a role player or something would’ve been the definition of insanity though.



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I just don’t see a replacement level coach that’s going to do a better job. Keeping the same players and firing the coach gets them nowhere IMO. If they continue to make more big moves I’ll understand, but moving some of those guys and letting Casey develop the younger ones would have been a better move IMO.

I think my issue overall is, it’s not Casey’s fault he’s running into LeBron James. And then Love plays well it’s double trouble. He’s lost a job because a player on the other team, and when LeBron is scoring like that, on shots like that, it wouldn’t matter who he had defending him or who the coach was. It’s not so much that he shouldn’t be let go, but it feels like the reasoning is a little unjustified. Feels like someone has to take the fall for management/fans sake, so he gets to be the lucky guy.


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[z Revis]

2017-2018 Off-Season Thread

I just don’t see a replacement level coach that’s going to do a better job. Keeping the same players and firing the coach gets them nowhere IMO. If they continue to make more big moves I’ll understand, but moving some of those guys and letting Casey develop the younger ones would have been a better move IMO.

I think my issue overall is, it’s not Casey’s fault he’s running into LeBron James. And then Love plays well it’s double trouble. He’s lost a job because a player on the other team, and when LeBron is scoring like that, on shots like that, it wouldn’t matter who he had defending him or who the coach was. It’s not so much that he shouldn’t be let go, but it feels like the reasoning is a little unjustified. Feels like someone has to take the fall for management/fans sake, so he gets to be the lucky guy.


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Can’t be losing 10 straight playoff games to LeBron though. Especially since this was supposedly the best Raptors team they’ve had and the weakest LeBron team since his first stint in Cleveland. Raptors had championship aspirations and didn’t even take a game, got blown out twice too. I hear you, but I don’t know... I’ve never been sold on Casey so I like the move. But I agree if they go on to keep the same players it’s not going to change anything.


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[SPTO]

Re: 2017-2018 Off-Season Thread

Man, you sure are all in on the guy based on G-league. I mean, I saw that 10 minute segment on Stack in the G-league Finals on NBA TV too, but I wouldn't go crazy over it.

I admit i'm probably a bit TOO over enthused over him.

We'll see what happens but in the end. Firing Casey should NOT be the only move. Apparently a rift formed between Casey and Ujiri during the Cavs series. There's an article about the firing and such. Here's the pertinent parts:

But Ujiri’s frustration with Casey’s inability to transfer regular-season success was rising, according to multiple sources.

After the Raptors eliminated the Washington Wizards in the first round they were favoured at home in Game 1 against a tired Cavaliers club coming off a seven-game series against Indiana. So when the Raptors lost Game 1 in overtime, Ujiri took the loss especially hard, stewing on it well into the following day. A turnover resulting from a failed inbounds play with 2:27 left in Game 1 and the Raptors up by a point was a sticking point. Casey’s decision to play Serge Ibaka and Jonas Valanciunas together against a small Cavs lineup centred around Kevin Love was another.

In Game 2, the Raptors held the lead at half-time but lost control in the third quarter when the Cavs were able to find Love in the post against mismatches, or routinely pinpoint C.J. Miles in pick-and-roll action with James. The Cavs roared ahead and led the series 2-0. In Game 3, the Raptors couldn’t get a good shot off out of a fourth quarter timeout while trailing by three with under a minute left, and most critically, weren’t prepared to double-team James when the Cavs chose to inbound the ball from under their own basket (rather than at half-court, as Casey was anticipating) out of a timeout with eight seconds left.

James would take the ball the length of the floor and hit his now iconic fading, one-legged, game-winning bank shot.

According to multiple sources the confusion and subsequent lack of execution on the final play was another log on the fire. After the game, Ujiri stormed into the Raptors dressing room at Quicken Loans — just out of sight of most of the players but not out of earshot — and rebuked Casey in the coach’s office for failing to double-team James. Ujiri didn’t reserve his frustration for just Casey – he also tore into the officials in the hallway as well. But observers noted that the intensity was more than typical for Ujiri, who can run hot at the best of times.

Casey had also asked for a 2 year extension 3 months ago but after what happened against Cleveland I think Ujiri would only be willing to go one year at the most and that wouldn't sit well with Casey IMO.

[King_B_Mack]

Re: 2017-2018 Off-Season Thread

I just don’t see a replacement level coach that’s going to do a better job. Keeping the same players and firing the coach gets them nowhere IMO. If they continue to make more big moves I’ll understand, but moving some of those guys and letting Casey develop the younger ones would have been a better move IMO.

I think my issue overall is, it’s not Casey’s fault he’s running into LeBron James. And then Love plays well it’s double trouble. He’s lost a job because a player on the other team, and when LeBron is scoring like that, on shots like that, it wouldn’t matter who he had defending him or who the coach was. It’s not so much that he shouldn’t be let go, but it feels like the reasoning is a little unjustified. Feels like someone has to take the fall for management/fans sake, so he gets to be the lucky guy.


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Again though, this is not JUST about LeBron and this series. This is about a core that has been together for 6 years and has done nothing. You can't keep getting embarrassed in the playoffs every year and expect to keep a job. In 2014 as the 3rd seed in the conference they couldn't get it done in the first round against the Nets. 2015 they get swept out of the first round by the Wizards as the 4th seed. 2016 as the 2nd seed they struggled the whole way. They needed 7 games to get by the 7 seed Indiana, 7 to get by the Heat in the second round and then could only muster 2 wins against the Cavs before losing the final 2 games of the series in the conference finals. 2017 they get swept out of the second round by the Cavs and now this year's debacle. At a certain point something has to change there and the GM isn't going to fire himself, getting rid of players isn't really easy, but firing a head coach is. Especially when the team rolls over and quits in the final game of the series.

[Majingir]

Re: 2017-2018 Off-Season Thread

Another thing about Casey is that the Magic could be where he ends up. Their GM used to be on the Raptors and their team is in need of a coach. Not to mention having Biyombo and Ross, 2 guys Casey is also familiar with.

Orlando Raptors coming up lol


And assuming the Raptors coach isn't an internal candidate or someone like Becky Hammon, there's a chance their new coach could've had NBA head coaching experience elsewhere. In Raptors history, Lenny Wilkens is the only coach they've had who had coached multiple full seasons before coaching the Raptors. He most recently coached the Atlanta Hawks before joining the Raptors, and during his time there got swept by Jordans Bulls multiple times. Budenholzer being a rumored name seems fitting lol.

[RedSceptile]

Re: 2017-2018 Off-Season Thread

I still don't understand Raptors fans who think Budenholzer would be a bad pick up? I mean he literally took a team of literal who's to the first seed in the East and implemented an amazing offense and very good defense at the same time. I mean it's not like he got fired in Atlanta, he left because he didn't want to experience that rebuild. But sure I guess, he can be boring and go elsewhere. Because being boring has ever been this bad thing (see: Greg Popovich). But no, one of the most sought after coaches this off season because of his ability would be a bad fit.

Y'all are funny.

[ggsimmonds]

Re: 2017-2018 Off-Season Thread

I just don’t see a replacement level coach that’s going to do a better job. Keeping the same players and firing the coach gets them nowhere IMO. If they continue to make more big moves I’ll understand, but moving some of those guys and letting Casey develop the younger ones would have been a better move IMO.

I think my issue overall is, it’s not Casey’s fault he’s running into LeBron James. And then Love plays well it’s double trouble. He’s lost a job because a player on the other team, and when LeBron is scoring like that, on shots like that, it wouldn’t matter who he had defending him or who the coach was. It’s not so much that he shouldn’t be let go, but it feels like the reasoning is a little unjustified. Feels like someone has to take the fall for management/fans sake, so he gets to be the lucky guy.


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Its not that he was fired because he kept losing to LeBron James though. He was fired because his team always rolled over for LeBron.

More than anything want Toronto needs is a culture change.

Hypothetically you can do that by bringing in a new coach or acquiring a certain type of player who can change the team culture.

But as it happens, its a easier sell to go the coaching route.

[SPTO]

Re: 2017-2018 Off-Season Thread

I still don't understand Raptors fans who think Budenholzer would be a bad pick up? I mean he literally took a team of literal who's to the first seed in the East and implemented an amazing offense and very good defense at the same time. I mean it's not like he got fired in Atlanta, he left because he didn't want to experience that rebuild. But sure I guess, he can be boring and go elsewhere. Because being boring has ever been this bad thing (see: Greg Popovich). But no, one of the most sought after coaches this off season because of his ability would be a bad fit.

Y'all are funny.

Well another reason why Raptors fans are leering of Budenholzer is that we've seen this movie before. He basically went down the same road that the Raptors have gone through. It's like replacing the guy with another guy who did the exact same thing.

[ProfessaPackMan]

Re: 2017-2018 Off-Season Thread

Situations weren’t anywhere near the same though.

Y’all might as well not hire anyone then.