Who's Your MVP? ('Bron or AI)

[Ofizzle]

Re: Who's Your MVP? ('Bron or AI)

P2k I agree with almost everything you said about Iverson. However, his perimeter defense is top notch in the league and you didn't really give him credit for it. Also, you continue to say he's not a winner, but he did win an MVP and took the squad to the finals.

He's a very good off ball defender, but he's only about an average-good on the ball defender, and sometimes gambles too much for steals, reminds me of Rafer on the Raptors in that sense, but that might be why you feel he isn't giving him enough credit defensively. He's a good defender overall, but I wouldn't say top notch, good but not great like a Jason Kidd [in terms of PG's].

Their's guys like Jason Kidd who are amazing on ball defenders, and also great off the ball too, we all know getting steals and blocks doesn't always mean you're playing good defense because some players just gamble a lot. Arenas get steals, but he's a bad on ball defender, but Hughes is a very good on ball and off ball defender, he doesn't lead the league in steals because he goes flying around and missing defessive assignments but because he just does it well.

Neither Nash nor Amare deserves it, in my opinion. They need each other

I agree, though they need Nash because their's no sign of another PG or person who can run an offense on that team, but they need Amare also because without him they have no inside presence at all.

[Ofizzle]

Re: Who's Your MVP? ('Bron or AI)

P2k I agree with almost everything you said about Iverson. However, his perimeter defense is top notch in the league and you didn't really give him credit for it. Also, you continue to say he's not a winner, but he did win an MVP and took the squad to the finals.

He's a very good off ball defender, but he's only about an average-good on the ball defender, and sometimes gambles too much for steals, reminds me of Rafer on the Raptors in that sense, but that might be why you feel he isn't giving him enough credit defensively. He's a good defender overall, but I wouldn't say top notch, good but not great like a Jason Kidd [in terms of PG's].

Their's guys like Jason Kidd who are amazing on ball defenders, and also great off the ball too, we all know getting steals and blocks doesn't always mean you're playing good defense because some players just gamble a lot. Arenas get steals, but he's a bad on ball defender, but Hughes is a very good on ball and off ball defender, he doesn't lead the league in steals because he goes flying around and missing defessive assignments but because he just does it well.

Neither Nash nor Amare deserves it, in my opinion. They need each other

I agree, though they need Nash because their's no sign of another PG or person who can run an offense on that team, but they need Amare also because without him they have no inside presence at all.

[Programmed2Kill]

Re: Who's Your MVP? ('Bron or AI)

P2k I agree with almost everything you said about Iverson. However, his perimeter defense is top notch in the league and you didn't really give him credit for it.

Why does he deserve credit for something that he is not? He is not a great defensive player, plain and simple. People see the steals and think "oh, he is so great on defense"..NO. He is a chance maker with steals and is using his speed instead of using the defense. And alot of times, he takes the chance, misses and the guy he was guarding goes up unguarded and makes the shot. That is not great defense. That is bad defense. You didn't see John Stockton, Maurice Cheeks and Michael Jordan pull stuff like that. LeBron James doesn't pull stuff liek that, either. I don't wanna hear how Iverson is a great defensive player ever again, because it is false.

Also, you continue to say he's not a winner, but he did win an MVP and took the squad to the finals.

I did not say Iverson is not a winner. I said he isn't THAT MUCH of a winner. Besides the Finals run, how much playoff success have the Sixers really had?

Another thing, I believe you guys can win with AI. You won with him before, albeit he was younger and healthier, but he's still dropped 50+ points a few times this season. I kinda believe that you're not really addressing the issue of not having a lot of good players on the Sixers. This is one of their youngest and worst lineups in years since AI has been there. I believe they should keep AI but trade some of the young bucs for some old heads for veteran leadership. You had a great veteran player in Aaron McKie who was a big part of the ECF run in 2001. Other than these things, you hit head on with Iverson.

What the hell? First of all, this may be a young team, but this is not one of the worst lineups they've had since AI's been here. This team can actually shoot and has some athleticism. You are not watching this team if you are saying some junk like that.

And then you say you wanna trade the young guys(the only players keeping us from being down there with the Hornets) and trade them for older players for some leadership??? So you want to destroy our salary cap situation all over again liek Larry Brown did? C'mon man...stop it. Stop the madness. You have no idea what you are talking about. Stick with the Bobcats, dude.

He's still my favorite player ever, so you can call me a homer.

You are a homer.

[Programmed2Kill]

Re: Who's Your MVP? ('Bron or AI)

P2k I agree with almost everything you said about Iverson. However, his perimeter defense is top notch in the league and you didn't really give him credit for it.

Why does he deserve credit for something that he is not? He is not a great defensive player, plain and simple. People see the steals and think "oh, he is so great on defense"..NO. He is a chance maker with steals and is using his speed instead of using the defense. And alot of times, he takes the chance, misses and the guy he was guarding goes up unguarded and makes the shot. That is not great defense. That is bad defense. You didn't see John Stockton, Maurice Cheeks and Michael Jordan pull stuff like that. LeBron James doesn't pull stuff liek that, either. I don't wanna hear how Iverson is a great defensive player ever again, because it is false.

Also, you continue to say he's not a winner, but he did win an MVP and took the squad to the finals.

I did not say Iverson is not a winner. I said he isn't THAT MUCH of a winner. Besides the Finals run, how much playoff success have the Sixers really had?

Another thing, I believe you guys can win with AI. You won with him before, albeit he was younger and healthier, but he's still dropped 50+ points a few times this season. I kinda believe that you're not really addressing the issue of not having a lot of good players on the Sixers. This is one of their youngest and worst lineups in years since AI has been there. I believe they should keep AI but trade some of the young bucs for some old heads for veteran leadership. You had a great veteran player in Aaron McKie who was a big part of the ECF run in 2001. Other than these things, you hit head on with Iverson.

What the hell? First of all, this may be a young team, but this is not one of the worst lineups they've had since AI's been here. This team can actually shoot and has some athleticism. You are not watching this team if you are saying some junk like that.

And then you say you wanna trade the young guys(the only players keeping us from being down there with the Hornets) and trade them for older players for some leadership??? So you want to destroy our salary cap situation all over again liek Larry Brown did? C'mon man...stop it. Stop the madness. You have no idea what you are talking about. Stick with the Bobcats, dude.

He's still my favorite player ever, so you can call me a homer.

You are a homer.

[Programmed2Kill]

Re: Who's Your MVP? ('Bron or AI)

I'm done with the Iverson conversation. I mentioned him being black twice that's all. No racial thing at all, I'm black so obviously I'm not racist against my own race. I listed things that people over the course of his career have criticized him about. And why does P2K keep saying "You Iverson fans." Aren't you an Iverson fan yourself? On the Garnett thing, this might sound kind of ridiculous (forgive me for saying it), but I do think Iverson is on the same level as Garnett. Hear me out first, they both have MVP trophies, both put up gaudy stats, but Garnett hasn't taken them to the Finals and Iverson has, that's it I'm done. I just wanted to say that and see what you guys think. Let's get back to talking about what player should win the MVP award.

I say "You Iverson fans" because you are Iverson fans solely, or Iverson fans first and Sixer fans second. I'm a Sixer fan first and that will always be the case. I like Iverson, I wouldn't say I'm a fan..nowhere near a big fan.

And if you think Garnett and Iverson are on the same level right now....lol man....wow.

[Programmed2Kill]

Re: Who's Your MVP? ('Bron or AI)

I'm done with the Iverson conversation. I mentioned him being black twice that's all. No racial thing at all, I'm black so obviously I'm not racist against my own race. I listed things that people over the course of his career have criticized him about. And why does P2K keep saying "You Iverson fans." Aren't you an Iverson fan yourself? On the Garnett thing, this might sound kind of ridiculous (forgive me for saying it), but I do think Iverson is on the same level as Garnett. Hear me out first, they both have MVP trophies, both put up gaudy stats, but Garnett hasn't taken them to the Finals and Iverson has, that's it I'm done. I just wanted to say that and see what you guys think. Let's get back to talking about what player should win the MVP award.

I say "You Iverson fans" because you are Iverson fans solely, or Iverson fans first and Sixer fans second. I'm a Sixer fan first and that will always be the case. I like Iverson, I wouldn't say I'm a fan..nowhere near a big fan.

And if you think Garnett and Iverson are on the same level right now....lol man....wow.

[3rdAnswer]

Re: Who's Your MVP? ('Bron or AI)

Why does he deserve credit for something that he is not? He is not a great defensive player, plain and simple. People see the steals and think "oh, he is so great on defense"..NO. He is a chance maker with steals and is using his speed instead of using the defense. And alot of times, he takes the chance, misses and the guy he was guarding goes up unguarded and makes the shot. That is not great defense. That is bad defense. You didn't see John Stockton, Maurice Cheeks and Michael Jordan pull stuff like that. LeBron James doesn't pull stuff liek that, either. I don't wanna hear how Iverson is a great defensive player ever again, because it is false.





I did not say Iverson is not a winner. I said he isn't THAT MUCH of a winner. Besides the Finals run, how much playoff success have the Sixers really had?





What the hell? First of all, this may be a young team, but this is not one of the worst lineups they've had since AI's been here. This team can actually shoot and has some athleticism. You are not watching this team if you are saying some junk like that.

And then you say you wanna trade the young guys(the only players keeping us from being down there with the Hornets) and trade them for older players for some leadership??? So you want to destroy our salary cap situation all over again liek Larry Brown did? C'mon man...stop it. Stop the madness. You have no idea what you are talking about. Stick with the Bobcats, dude.





You are a homer.

When I said trade some young heads I only meant one or two of them. Isn't AI the oldest on the team?

When I said the team wasn't that good, I meant that they are REALLY young and underdeveloped. Now, if you give this team only one more year, they'd be a top team in the East, but they are almost too young. And once they really develop, AI will be damn near gone like he is.



I'm a homer

[3rdAnswer]

Re: Who's Your MVP? ('Bron or AI)

Why does he deserve credit for something that he is not? He is not a great defensive player, plain and simple. People see the steals and think "oh, he is so great on defense"..NO. He is a chance maker with steals and is using his speed instead of using the defense. And alot of times, he takes the chance, misses and the guy he was guarding goes up unguarded and makes the shot. That is not great defense. That is bad defense. You didn't see John Stockton, Maurice Cheeks and Michael Jordan pull stuff like that. LeBron James doesn't pull stuff liek that, either. I don't wanna hear how Iverson is a great defensive player ever again, because it is false.





I did not say Iverson is not a winner. I said he isn't THAT MUCH of a winner. Besides the Finals run, how much playoff success have the Sixers really had?





What the hell? First of all, this may be a young team, but this is not one of the worst lineups they've had since AI's been here. This team can actually shoot and has some athleticism. You are not watching this team if you are saying some junk like that.

And then you say you wanna trade the young guys(the only players keeping us from being down there with the Hornets) and trade them for older players for some leadership??? So you want to destroy our salary cap situation all over again liek Larry Brown did? C'mon man...stop it. Stop the madness. You have no idea what you are talking about. Stick with the Bobcats, dude.





You are a homer.

When I said trade some young heads I only meant one or two of them. Isn't AI the oldest on the team?

When I said the team wasn't that good, I meant that they are REALLY young and underdeveloped. Now, if you give this team only one more year, they'd be a top team in the East, but they are almost too young. And once they really develop, AI will be damn near gone like he is.



I'm a homer

[Yosemite Dan]

Re: Who's Your MVP? ('Bron or AI)

You doubt the sixers would be much worse? You kidding, take AI off that team, and you have a bunch of no names, that wouldnt be better then the Bobcats. AI is having a great and gives the sixers there ONLY chance in winning a game. And no way Steve Nash is front runner, he has too many good players around him, Amare would get it before him, hes having a dominate year.

I'm not gonna get into this Iverson thing except for this. He's not an untouchable for the Sixers but I've never heard contenders clamoring to get him which says enough about what other teams think about him. Maybe his team would learn to play like a team rather than wait for Iverson to dribble 20 seconds off the shot clock before taking a contested jump shot or drive into a clogged lane hoping he draws a foul. Either way he's successful taking whatever rhythm his team has right out of the game. The Raptors are sure playing alot better after VC left for basically nothing. Sometimes it's addition by subtraction.

As for Nash, the Suns are a completely different team with him in the lineup. He goes at a frenetic pace, has great shot selection and uncanny ablilty to find the open man even for a point guard. Every great team has great players around them. Would you have said the same about the Suns players last year? Jordan had Pippen and Rodman, does that mean he didn't deserve MVP. Nash makes the good players on his team great and is their true leader as emphasized by the Suns recent bad play. That is the definition of a MVP, not the stat line. Amare needs Nash more than Nash needs Amare. Iverson apparently needs no one.

[Yosemite Dan]

Re: Who's Your MVP? ('Bron or AI)

You doubt the sixers would be much worse? You kidding, take AI off that team, and you have a bunch of no names, that wouldnt be better then the Bobcats. AI is having a great and gives the sixers there ONLY chance in winning a game. And no way Steve Nash is front runner, he has too many good players around him, Amare would get it before him, hes having a dominate year.

I'm not gonna get into this Iverson thing except for this. He's not an untouchable for the Sixers but I've never heard contenders clamoring to get him which says enough about what other teams think about him. Maybe his team would learn to play like a team rather than wait for Iverson to dribble 20 seconds off the shot clock before taking a contested jump shot or drive into a clogged lane hoping he draws a foul. Either way he's successful taking whatever rhythm his team has right out of the game. The Raptors are sure playing alot better after VC left for basically nothing. Sometimes it's addition by subtraction.

As for Nash, the Suns are a completely different team with him in the lineup. He goes at a frenetic pace, has great shot selection and uncanny ablilty to find the open man even for a point guard. Every great team has great players around them. Would you have said the same about the Suns players last year? Jordan had Pippen and Rodman, does that mean he didn't deserve MVP. Nash makes the good players on his team great and is their true leader as emphasized by the Suns recent bad play. That is the definition of a MVP, not the stat line. Amare needs Nash more than Nash needs Amare. Iverson apparently needs no one.

[3rdAnswer]

Re: Who's Your MVP? ('Bron or AI)

Iverson needed the 6th Man of the Year, Defensive Player of the Year, and the Coach of the Year.

[3rdAnswer]

Re: Who's Your MVP? ('Bron or AI)

Iverson needed the 6th Man of the Year, Defensive Player of the Year, and the Coach of the Year.

[bubbachuck]

Re: Who's Your MVP? ('Bron or AI)

I would say Garnett is the best all-around player in the league hands down. But as far as taking over a game, he is no better than iverson. Garnett is a consitant type of stat guy. he will get 20+ points and 12+ boards in a game but he will do it consitantly in every quarter. He does not have as much of a "killer instinct" as Iverson does. This shows by the amount of success he has had in this league.

And to get back to the topic, i think Shaq should win MVP hands down. I am sick of the league giving the award to that guy that does it for one year. The man is a champion and truely makes whatever team he is on better. He should win it every year and this one is NO exception. I wish i had a couple of votes in this becuase i would give them all to Shaq Oneal.

[bubbachuck]

Re: Who's Your MVP? ('Bron or AI)

I would say Garnett is the best all-around player in the league hands down. But as far as taking over a game, he is no better than iverson. Garnett is a consitant type of stat guy. he will get 20+ points and 12+ boards in a game but he will do it consitantly in every quarter. He does not have as much of a "killer instinct" as Iverson does. This shows by the amount of success he has had in this league.

And to get back to the topic, i think Shaq should win MVP hands down. I am sick of the league giving the award to that guy that does it for one year. The man is a champion and truely makes whatever team he is on better. He should win it every year and this one is NO exception. I wish i had a couple of votes in this becuase i would give them all to Shaq Oneal.

[3rdAnswer]

Re: Who's Your MVP? ('Bron or AI)

And to get back to the topic, i think Shaq should win MVP hands down. I am sick of the league giving the award to that guy that does it for one year. The man is a champion and truely makes whatever team he is on better. He should win it every year and this one is NO exception. I wish i had a couple of votes in this becuase i would give them all to Shaq Oneal.

I do believe in that. While he's not the same player he was in the past, he still is the "most valuable" player in the league.