2020 Offseason Thread

[Mentch]

Re: 2020 Offseason Thread

Philly trade Ben for Harden would be a huge mistake and add on to their bad moves from the last few years.

Is this a joke? Any rational Sixers fan can tell you straight up that Simmons is the biggest problem with the team. He screws up floor spacing for both Embiid and Horford and is only good in the transition game. Tobias Harris should not be this team's 2nd best player

If this was 20 years ago, Simmons would surely have a place on this Sixers team. However, today's NBA is completely different in terms of how much it revolves around the arc. Harden is literally the perfect solution to this problem and allows Embiid to roam in the post where he's dominant. Do you think Embiid really wants to camp around the 3 point line all the time because of Simmons?

[Mentch]

Re: 2020 Offseason Thread

In what world is Jrue worth 3 firsts and two swaps and RoCo worth 2 firsts.. teams are really out here just saying **** these picks the last couple of years..


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In what world was Robert Covington worth giving up the Rockets' only legitimate big man for? 2 1st round picks is a steal compared to that and what I perceive to be fair value for one of the best wing defenders in the league

[georgiafan]

Re: 2020 Offseason Thread

Is this a joke? Any rational Sixers fan can tell you straight up that Simmons is the biggest problem with the team. He screws up floor spacing for both Embiid and Horford and is only good in the transition game. Tobias Harris should not be this team's 2nd best player

If this was 20 years ago, Simmons would surely have a place on this Sixers team. However, today's NBA is completely different in terms of how much it revolves around the arc. Harden is literally the perfect solution to this problem and allows Embiid to roam in the post where he's dominant. Do you think Embiid really wants to camp around the 3 point line all the time because of Simmons?

Ben can do everything on the court except shoot 3's with rare size and speed. He is all world defender and one of the few guys in the league who can defend 1-5. Yes I do think Embiid wants to camp around the 3 point line because he is out of shape and not motatavted night in and night out.

I'm not trading either of them in this short offseason and when If I have to I would trade Embiid and surround Ben with shooters. After last night the price for Hardin would be crazy high. Who is playing defense for Philly when you trade Ben, Josh Richardson and Thybulle plus multiple 1st?

[ProfessaPackMan]

Re: 2020 Offseason Thread

Rodney Hood opting out and becoming a FA per Woj.

[Mentch]

Re: 2020 Offseason Thread

Ben can do everything on the court except shoot 3's with rare size and speed. He is all world defender and one of the few guys in the league who can defend 1-5. Yes I do think Embiid wants to camp around the 3 point line because he is out of shape and not motatavted night in and night out.

I'm not trading either of them in this short offseason and when If I have to I would trade Embiid and surround Ben with shooters. After last night the price for Hardin would be crazy high. Who is playing defense for Philly when you trade Ben, Josh Richardson and Thybulle plus multiple 1st?

Well considering how much today's NBA revolves around 3 point shooting, that's a pretty bad area to be a huge liability. Embiid has made it known that he prefers banging in the post instead of camping around the 3 point line. That doesn't stop him from doing so since both the Sixers game plan and personnel necessitate the need for him to go out and shoot in order to Simmons to crash the paint, but I think we both know that Embiid's game doesn't really revolve around shooting

I'll obviously give you the defensive abilities of Simmons (or lack thereof for Harden) as a solid reason for turning that offer down from the Sixers side, but I'm not sure that it makes enough of a difference in the end when Harden is a generational offensive talent. This team cannot afford to screw around with Simmons and waste the prime of Joel Embiid with floor spacing issues and lack of ability to run a half court offense efficiently. The time for this team to win is clearly now

[georgiafan]

Re: 2020 Offseason Thread

Well considering how much today's NBA revolves around 3 point shooting, that's a pretty bad area to be a huge liability. Embiid has made it known that he prefers banging in the post instead of camping around the 3 point line. That doesn't stop him from doing so since both the Sixers game plan and personnel necessitate the need for him to go out and shoot in order to Simmons to crash the paint, but I think we both know that Embiid's game doesn't really revolve around shooting

I'll obviously give you the defensive abilities of Simmons (or lack thereof for Harden) as a solid reason for turning that offer down from the Sixers side, but I'm not sure that it makes enough of a difference in the end when Harden is a generational offensive talent. This team cannot afford to screw around with Simmons and waste the prime of Joel Embiid with floor spacing issues and lack of ability to run a half court offense efficiently. The time for this team to win is clearly now

The last several years Philly has done nothing, but make drastic changes all of which are too win now. Just about every move they have made has backfired. If you make the move for Harden your once again shrinking the window you have. Your future assets once again take a big hit as James is 7 years older then Ben. I know they have new people in place so maybe its different. I know I wouldn't trust them to give up that kind of haul it would take and get it right.

Doc is a smart respected guy lets see what he can do with this team. I'm expecting a good year from Harris as Doc knows him well. I would try and trade Horford however that's easier said then done. Harden is obviously a great offense player he has yet to prove he is a winning player despite all kinds of talent around him during his career.

Do you think a big 4 of Harden, Embiid, Harris and Eric Gordan win a title ? I know I don't and every year you don't win a title with Harden he loses value with his age and contract situation

[ojandpizza]

Re: 2020 Offseason Thread

Is this a joke? Any rational Sixers fan can tell you straight up that Simmons is the biggest problem with the team. He screws up floor spacing for both Embiid and Horford and is only good in the transition game. Tobias Harris should not be this team's 2nd best player

There is give and take here because having two bigs also forces Ben into playing a role he's not suited for. If Ben could play more so like Giannis for example his lack of ability to space wouldn't be an issue anymore. Ben is their best defender, maybe a DPOTY level defender, their best playmaker, and most interchangeable piece position wise. Which of the two ends up being a better fit depends on how the rest of the roster shapes up, if Horford stays keeping Ben over Embiid makes more sense. Embiid and Al don't coexist, but it's also unlikely Harden wouldn't put a low ceiling on Ben as well.

There is too much hesitation in Ben's game paired with Embiid, always trying to get him the ball instead of paying his game. But Embiid doesn't reciprocate that. When he extends high he's not capable of hitting Ben on back cuts, doesn't look to Ben posting a smaller guard, areas where Milwaukee is able to utilize Giannis for example. He's really not even capable of making the correct second pass to someone else, almost always a handoff.

Do you think Embiid really wants to camp around the 3 point line all the time because of Simmons?

Yes I do, it's the biggest hole in Embiid's game right now. He's out of shape, and plays lazy on the floor. He doesn't try to be dominant inside, he doesn't exert the extra effort even when the opportunity presents itself. When healthy he's still only giving 20 great minutes and 10 tired/sloppy minutes a game. He could be the best player in the league, I don't think he wants it. His improvement is trending in the wrong direction.

[areobee401]

Re: 2020 Offseason Thread

Report of Boston "Throwing Kemba At Everybody" in a failed attempt to create a package for Jrue Holiday.

[ojandpizza]

Re: 2020 Offseason Thread

In what world was Robert Covington worth giving up the Rockets' only legitimate big man for? 2 1st round picks is a steal compared to that and what I perceive to be fair value for one of the best wing defenders in the league

That wasn't a good trade either, but for a solid defender Portland could have likely given up less elsewhere IMO. Covington isn't the type of defender to transform a defensive backcourt with CJ and Dame both starting and he doesn't offer anything else outside of that. He has a decent 3 point shot.

If 3 firsts get you a player like Jrue and 2 firsts get you RoCo you either need to give up the 3rd first and find you an All-Star level guy, or just find a significantly cheaper Covington type of guy IMO.

I do think he's a good fit, and a solid rotation player who defends the 3spot well, but it's a 16th pick for an undrafted gritty defender. It's like giving up multiple firsts for Pat Beverly because you want a solid defender at the 1spot.

Mo Harkelss, Royce O'Neal, Justice Winslow, Torrey Craig, Finney-Smith, Jae Crowder, likely all cheaper.

[georgiafan]

Re: 2020 Offseason Thread

Report of Boston "Throwing Kemba At Everybody" in a failed attempt to create a package for Jrue Holiday.

What do you think about something like 6 + Dedmon for Hayward, 14 and 26.

I've seen some rumors/speculation on that and seem likes the kind of deal Atlanta would make. Dedmon's contract for next year is only guaranteed for 1 million so basically a expiring.

[areobee401]

Re: 2020 Offseason Thread

What do you think about something like 6 + Dedmon for Hayward, 14 and 26.

I've seen some rumors/speculation on that and seem likes the kind of deal Atlanta would make. Dedmon's contract for next year is only guaranteed for 1 million so basically a expiring.

All depends on Hayward. Needs to opt-in before 5pm today, or he’s gone, and the Celtics have his cap hit on the books this year. If he does opt-in and Atlanta is a team he’s interested in, I could see something like the deal you propose as a possibility.

[illwill10]

Re: 2020 Offseason Thread

There is give and take here because having two bigs also forces Ben into playing a role he's not suited for. If Ben could play more so like Giannis for example his lack of ability to space wouldn't be an issue anymore. Ben is their best defender, maybe a DPOTY level defender, their best playmaker, and most interchangeable piece position wise. Which of the two ends up being a better fit depends on how the rest of the roster shapes up, if Horford stays keeping Ben over Embiid makes more sense. Embiid and Al don't coexist, but it's also unlikely Harden wouldn't put a low ceiling on Ben as well.

There is too much hesitation in Ben's game paired with Embiid, always trying to get him the ball instead of paying his game. But Embiid doesn't reciprocate that. When he extends high he's not capable of hitting Ben on back cuts, doesn't look to Ben posting a smaller guard, areas where Milwaukee is able to utilize Giannis for example. He's really not even capable of making the correct second pass to someone else, almost always a handoff.



Yes I do, it's the biggest hole in Embiid's game right now. He's out of shape, and plays lazy on the floor. He doesn't try to be dominant inside, he doesn't exert the extra effort even when the opportunity presents itself. When healthy he's still only giving 20 great minutes and 10 tired/sloppy minutes a game. He could be the best player in the league, I don't think he wants it. His improvement is trending in the wrong direction.

I remember him saying he only wants to get around 32 minutes a game and would complain if he went over. I don't think he is a self motivated player. He needs to be apart of a culture that pushes its players to be at their best. Philly lacked leadership. It has been mainly Ben and Joel just trying to get theirs and being passive when the ball isn't going through them.

[Mentch]

Re: 2020 Offseason Thread

The last several years Philly has done nothing, but make drastic changes all of which are too win now. Just about every move they have made has backfired. If you make the move for Harden your once again shrinking the window you have. Your future assets once again take a big hit as James is 7 years older then Ben. I know they have new people in place so maybe its different. I know I wouldn't trust them to give up that kind of haul it would take and get it right.

Doc is a smart respected guy lets see what he can do with this team. I'm expecting a good year from Harris as Doc knows him well. I would try and trade Horford however that's easier said then done. Harden is obviously a great offense player he has yet to prove he is a winning player despite all kinds of talent around him during his career.

Do you think a big 4 of Harden, Embiid, Harris and Eric Gordan win a title ? I know I don't and every year you don't win a title with Harden he loses value with his age and contract situation

The last several years Philly has done nothing, but make drastic changes all of which are too win now. Just about every move they have made has backfired. If you make the move for Harden your once again shrinking the window you have. Your future assets once again take a big hit as James is 7 years older then Ben. I know they have new people in place so maybe its different. I know I wouldn't trust them to give up that kind of haul it would take and get it right.

Doc is a smart respected guy lets see what he can do with this team. I'm expecting a good year from Harris as Doc knows him well. I would try and trade Horford however that's easier said then done. Harden is obviously a great offense player he has yet to prove he is a winning player despite all kinds of talent around him during his career.

Do you think a big 4 of Harden, Embiid, Harris and Eric Gordan win a title ? I know I don't and every year you don't win a title with Harden he loses value with his age and contract situation

Yes, I fully believe that is a championship level roster and immediately makes the Sixers a threat on the level of the Bucks and Celtics. You have to realize that Simmons is required to crash the paint constantly in order to even necessitate a threat that he could score in a half court offense. I agree these previous win now moves haven't totally paid off, but they were all calculated risks for talented players and real difference makers. They've at least shown willingness to push the chips in, which I think is the more important attribute

Horford probably isn't getting traded with his contract. Harden did have the Durant led Warriors on the ropes in the playoffs and is the closest that any team was to beating those Warriors at full strength. These are the types of players you sell out for, even if he is 31

Your analysis makes some sense in terms of maintaining a future, but do you truly believe that this Sixers team will be more successful in the post season long term with Simmons or Harden? I know which one I'm taking my chances with

[ojandpizza]

Re: 2020 Offseason Thread

Would be a great trade if there was someone at 6 Boston wanted.. I feel like their reasoning to move up would be to land Wiseman or maybe even Ball as they can afford to be slow with them.. 6 doesn't seem super appealing unless one of them drops. Boston could use that cap relief, and I even think Dedmon is a decent fit for them, but I would still want just a bit more if I'm Boston and Atlanta probably wouldn't/shouldn't give up Huerter.

If Golden State were to strike out trading their pick how unlikely would it be for them to trade Wiggins and 2 for Hayward 14,26,30? Hayward fits them a bit better but also he's expiring money who Golden State could reload with by trading at the deadline.

In the Atlanta deal I'm assuming Boston drafts Avdija, Hayes?

[georgiafan]

Re: 2020 Offseason Thread

Your analysis makes some sense in terms of maintaining a future, but do you truly believe that this Sixers team will be more successful in the post season long term with Simmons or Harden? I know which one I'm taking my chances with

I think it would be close to a draw for me so in the end I take Ben and his youth. I don't believe Harden will ever be a #1 on a team that wins the title. He doesn't seem like the kind of player who would get the best out of Embiid either. If I ever trade either of them I would be getting assets not giving away additional ones.

On another another note I'm not buying Rondo to Atlanta talk which is we are going to offer him a 2 year and 15 million deal. It seems like a leverage move by his agent. We need help in making the playoffs not someone who disappears in the regular season. His leadership would be nice though I'm just not paying him that much.