2021 Offseason Thread

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  • J_Posse
    Greatness Personified
    • Jun 2005
    • 11255

    #1576
    Re: 2021 Offseason Thread

    Originally posted by ojandpizza
    Think it's far too early to label him as a bust. I think he made some strides as a rookie and didn't even have that bad of a rookie campaign. Every bit as good as guys like Murray, Vassell, Lonnie, looked in their first year or two and I know you aren't/weren't already giving them the bust label.

    Think he was set back some last year on a roster with guys like Edwards, Russell, Beasley, he already wasn't a guy you want to slot at SF to begin with but he ended up basically out of the SG rotation with all those guys, and behind Okogie and Edwards at SF.. Which makes sense.

    Might make more sense for him with Memphis. I'm assuming he'll eat into Grayson Allen's minutes with him gone. And though he will still be competing with Bane, Brooks, Melton, and now Williams, those guys spend lots of time at the 3 and only Brooks is likely to log big starters minutes.
    I meant for Minnesota he was a bust. That doesn't mean he will be unable to figure it out eventually.

    We've seen guys flame out in their first stop in the NBA, yet turn it around and become serviceable.


    All the Spurs guards/wings (minus maybe Walker IV) is ahead of him in their development, so not sure why you've mentioned them.

    And he'll have to really step up to find minutes amongst a good group in Memphis, so there isn't a guarantee he'll catch up or surpass any of them (again, minus Walker IV).



    Official HQ of Bills Backer/Spurs Nation
    Last edited by J_Posse; 08-17-2021, 08:16 PM.
    San Antonio Spurs 5 - Time ('99, '03, '05, '07, '14) NBA Champions

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    • jfsolo
      Live Action, please?
      • May 2003
      • 12965

      #1577
      Re: 2021 Offseason Thread

      It will be stupid if the Lakers bring in another small guard. We need another big and another wing defender.

      Sent from my Pixel 4a using Operation Sports mobile app
      Jordan Mychal Lemos
      @crypticjordan

      Do this today: Instead of $%*#!@& on a game you're not going to play or movie you're not going to watch, say something good about a piece of media you're excited about.

      Do the same thing tomorrow. And the next. Now do it forever.

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      • Smallville102001
        All Star
        • Mar 2015
        • 6542

        #1578
        Re: 2021 Offseason Thread

        Originally posted by cima
        Lakers/Warriors and Bucks/Nets opening night


        Lakers/Nets and Hawks/Knicks Christmas Day
        Didn't know the schedule was out yet.

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        • Smallville102001
          All Star
          • Mar 2015
          • 6542

          #1579
          Re: 2021 Offseason Thread

          Originally posted by jfsolo
          It will be stupid if the Lakers bring in another small guard. We need another big and another wing defender.

          Sent from my Pixel 4a using Operation Sports mobile app
          Yeah I don't get trying to bring in another PG. They are set at PG with Westbrook and Nuun and you could maybe even play THT at PG some. Big is the biggest need. Gasol is washed up should just retire now has been trash for 2 years in a row now and should never see the floor. So than that leaves you with just Howard.

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          • J_Posse
            Greatness Personified
            • Jun 2005
            • 11255

            #1580
            Re: 2021 Offseason Thread

            Originally posted by Smallville102001
            Yeah I don't get trying to bring in another PG. They are set at PG with Westbrook and Nuun and you could maybe even play THT at PG some. Big is the biggest need. Gasol is washed up should just retire now has been trash for 2 years in a row now and should never see the floor. So than that leaves you with just Howard.
            When was Anthony Davis no longer considered a big man?

            And they are likely trying out those guys for contingency purposes. They likelihood that both Nunn and Westbrook play all 82 games isn't high.

            Official HQ of Bills Backer/Spurs Nation
            San Antonio Spurs 5 - Time ('99, '03, '05, '07, '14) NBA Champions

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            • jfsolo
              Live Action, please?
              • May 2003
              • 12965

              #1581
              Re: 2021 Offseason Thread

              Originally posted by J_Posse
              When was Anthony Davis no longer considered a big man?

              And they are likely trying out those guys for contingency purposes. They likelihood that both Nunn and Westbrook play all 82 games isn't high.

              Official HQ of Bills Backer/Spurs Nation
              IMO, AD, Gasol, and Dwight are much more likely than the guards to miss a lot of games given the ages and relative fragility.
              Jordan Mychal Lemos
              @crypticjordan

              Do this today: Instead of $%*#!@& on a game you're not going to play or movie you're not going to watch, say something good about a piece of media you're excited about.

              Do the same thing tomorrow. And the next. Now do it forever.

              Comment

              • ojandpizza
                Hall Of Fame
                • Apr 2011
                • 29807

                #1582
                Re: 2021 Offseason Thread

                Originally posted by J_Posse
                I meant for Minnesota he was a bust. That doesn't mean he will be unable to figure it out eventually.

                All the Spurs guards/wings (minus maybe Walker IV) is ahead of him in their development, so not sure why you've mentioned them.

                Official HQ of Bills Backer/Spurs Nation
                I brought them up specifically because I felt there was a relevance to me saying it was too early to call Culver a bust. Yes they are ahead of him NOW, but were they ahead of him 1 year or 2 years into their careers? That was my point, that you likely wouldn't be calling a young Spur a bust as quickly as you are Culver.

                Murray first two years - 6/4/2
                Lonnie first two years - 6/2/1
                Vassell rookie year - 6/3/1
                Culver first two years - 8/3/1, rookie year 9/3/2

                I think it's unlikely unless he really improves that he makes the same strides those guys do over the next couple of years, I was just trying to say if you're looking at him the same way you would a Spurs young piece you'd see why I think the bust label might be a little too pre-mature, especially for a guy who hasn't even played 100 games yet and had season sending surgery last year.

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                • J_Posse
                  Greatness Personified
                  • Jun 2005
                  • 11255

                  #1583
                  Re: 2021 Offseason Thread

                  Originally posted by jfsolo
                  IMO, AD, Gasol, and Dwight are much more likely than the guards to miss a lot of games given the ages and relative fragility.
                  True, but don't they still have a free two - way slot and could conceivably still sign a developmental, project or cheap big for depth?

                  Plus, Russ isn't a spring chicken either and could easily miss extended time.
                  Originally posted by ojandpizza
                  I brought them up specifically because I felt there was a relevance to me saying it was too early to call Culver a bust. Yes they are ahead of him NOW, but were they ahead of him 1 year or 2 years into their careers? That was my point, that you likely wouldn't be calling a young Spur a bust as quickly as you are Culver.

                  Murray first two years - 6/4/2
                  Lonnie first two years - 6/2/1
                  Vassell rookie year - 6/3/1
                  Culver first two years - 8/3/1, rookie year 9/3/2

                  I think it's unlikely unless he really improves that he makes the same strides those guys do over the next couple of years, I was just trying to say if you're looking at him the same way you would a Spurs young piece you'd see why I think the bust label might be a little too pre-mature, especially for a guy who hasn't even played 100 games yet and had season sending surgery last year.
                  All those Spurs players (minus Vassell) were drafted later or much later than Culver, started most of their rookie year in the G - League (again, minus Devin) and showed competency in some area (defense, playmaking, etc) when given a chance.

                  Culver was given NBA minutes much sooner and didn't show enough to warrant further minutes his second year.

                  He's still young, but needs to improve his three - point shooting, career 28.8% is worse than DeJounte's, who is considered a non - shooter, and become an even average playmaker (he's pretty terrible as of now).

                  He & Lonnie are most comparable, but even Lonnie has shown himself to be a more competent three - point shooter and flashes of a 2nd or 3rd scoring option.

                  Lonnie's porous defense, lack of feel and tentativiness are holding him back.

                  Official HQ of Bills Backer/Spurs Nation
                  Last edited by J_Posse; 08-18-2021, 12:40 PM.
                  San Antonio Spurs 5 - Time ('99, '03, '05, '07, '14) NBA Champions

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                  • ProfessaPackMan
                    Bamma
                    • Mar 2008
                    • 63852

                    #1584
                    Re: 2021 Offseason Thread

                    Originally posted by J_Posse
                    Culver was given NBA minutes much sooner and didn't show enough to warrant further minutes his second year.

                    He's still young, but needs to improve his three - point shooting, career 28.8% is worse than DeJounte's, who is considered a non - shooter, and become an even average playmaker (he's pretty terrible as of now).

                    Official HQ of Bills Backer/Spurs Nation
                    Was that because of injuries/other factorsor because he was given ample time/opportunity and didn’t showcase it at all regardless of who was coaching there? I didn’t watch nor follow Minnesota closely over the last 2 years so I don’t know the answer to this.
                    #RespectTheCulture

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                    • ojandpizza
                      Hall Of Fame
                      • Apr 2011
                      • 29807

                      #1585
                      Re: 2021 Offseason Thread

                      Originally posted by J_Posse

                      Culver was given NBA minutes much sooner and didn't show enough to warrant further minutes his second year.

                      He's still young, but needs to improve his three - point shooting, career 28.8% is worse than DeJounte's, who is considered a non - shooter, and become an even average playmaker (he's pretty terrible as of now).

                      He & Lonnie are most comparable, but even Lonnie has shown himself to be a more competent three - point shooter and flashes of a 2nd or 3rd scoring option.

                      Lonnie's porous defense, lack of feel and tentativiness are holding him back.

                      Official HQ of Bills Backer/Spurs Nation
                      He actually did though. He was playing 22 minutes a night averaging 8/5/1 before injuring his ankle this past year, and started about half of those games. Sat like 20 games with injury, came back on a minute restriction, and then went back and forth from playing limited minutes and sitting games until ultimately shutting it down for surgery a whole 2 months later.

                      His shooting has been awful, even from the free throw line so that's something that might never develop into a plus level ability for him. I wasn't trying to compare him to any of those guys directly, just saying that I felt like had this been a Spurs guy I don't think you would be so quick with the bust label.
                      Last edited by ojandpizza; 08-18-2021, 01:41 PM.

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                      • Majingir
                        Moderator
                        • Apr 2005
                        • 47678

                        #1586
                        Re: 2021 Offseason Thread

                        Masai said as part of the tampering investigation, he gave in his phone.

                        I swear, if one of the only times the NBA comes down on anyone for any kind of tampering, it happens to be the Raptors of all teams....

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                        • J_Posse
                          Greatness Personified
                          • Jun 2005
                          • 11255

                          #1587
                          Re: 2021 Offseason Thread

                          Originally posted by ojandpizza
                          He actually did though. He was playing 22 minutes a night averaging 8/5/1 before injuring his ankle this past year, and started about half of those games. Sat like 20 games with injury, came back on a minute restriction, and then went back and forth from playing limited minutes and sitting games until ultimately shutting it down for surgery a whole 2 months later.

                          His shooting has been awful, even from the free throw line so that's something that might never develop into a plus level ability for him. I wasn't trying to compare him to any of those guys directly, just saying that I felt like had this been a Spurs guy I don't think you would be so quick with the bust label.
                          He is a bust as far as Minnesota is concerned, OJ.

                          Injuries can derail anyone's development track, just look at Murray (ACL), Vassell (COVID) & Walker (Meniscus tear) for example.

                          Again, I'm not knocking him or saying he will be unable to get things back on track.

                          Still, he didn't work out in his first stop and he is so far a bust.

                          None of the Spurs guards/wings are top 10 picks, so the expectations are much different. The only one who could be in the same boat is Walker IV.

                          And even he was selected 11 spots later than Culver.

                          Official HQ of Bills Backer/Spurs Nation
                          San Antonio Spurs 5 - Time ('99, '03, '05, '07, '14) NBA Champions

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                          • ProfessaPackMan
                            Bamma
                            • Mar 2008
                            • 63852

                            #1588
                            2021 Offseason Thread

                            So why be so quick to call him a bust then? Lol

                            We all sit and preach patience with players but then are quick to call them a bust after 5 mins. If you’re a bust, you’re a bust but I’ve never heard of calling someone a bust and then be like “Nevermind, he’s not a bust anymore”. What’s the point of that?

                            Edit: I do acknowledge that it didn’t work out in Minnesota, I’m moreso arguing against calling him a bust so quickly.
                            Last edited by ProfessaPackMan; 08-18-2021, 02:59 PM.
                            #RespectTheCulture

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                            • ojandpizza
                              Hall Of Fame
                              • Apr 2011
                              • 29807

                              #1589
                              Re: 2021 Offseason Thread

                              I mean it's obvious he isn't going to work with Minny, they've traded him now so there is no arguing that anyways. But to say he didn't work out because he was a bust for them, idk about that. After drafting him they acquired DLo and Beasley, so his role was already going to take a big hit compared to his expectation on draft night for a couple of years regardless. Then they land number 1 and take Edwards. Is he a bust for having more ready to contribute guys, and a number 1 pick, ahead of him at that point?

                              Like is Mo Bamba a bust already because he was playing behind Vuc these past couple of years? If Okongwu doesn't see much time again next year because of Capela and Collins is he then a bust too? If Toppin doesn't play much behind Randle? And so on...

                              It's not like he was there 5 years with tons of chances to showcase he wasn't a bust. Just 7 games into his rookie year Minnesota decided to start him, found his groove by the end of December when they started playing him 30+ minutes a night. Had an 11 game run scoring double digits averaging 16/5/2 over that stretch. I know he was somewhat worth mentioning because Jeebs was in here talking about him and Wiggins back then. Just a few games later trade for DLo and Beasley, then covid ended the season, then they draft Edwards, then he gets hurt. And now he's a bust?

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                              • J_Posse
                                Greatness Personified
                                • Jun 2005
                                • 11255

                                #1590
                                Re: 2021 Offseason Thread

                                Originally posted by ProfessaPackMan
                                So why be so quick to call him a bust then? Lol

                                We all sit and preach patience with players but then are quick to call them a bust after 5 mins. If you’re a bust, you’re a bust but I’ve never heard of calling someone a bust and then be like “Nevermind, he’s not a bust anymore”. What’s the point of that?

                                Edit: I do acknowledge that it didn’t work out in Minnesota, I’m moreso arguing against calling him a bust so quickly.
                                It is just like how Chauncey Billups was a bust until he wasn't. Not a difficult concept to grasp especially for a guy drafted one spot out of the top 5.

                                And I think Minnesota is "giving up" on him too soon, but they have a logjam at the SG position and needed to clear up some space.

                                They felt Culver was the most expandable even though they spent a top 10 pick on him (and he's only going into his 3rd year).

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                                San Antonio Spurs 5 - Time ('99, '03, '05, '07, '14) NBA Champions

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