NBA Off Topic Thread

[jeebs9]

Re: NBA Off Topic Thread

The article from ESPN said it only applied for all stars/all nba guys from the previous years. So this is only going to apply to a small amount of people even if it can be enforced.

No one wants to hear stars are out. A great example. LeBron chose to sit out the one Brooklyn game last year. But in the very next game vs the Knicks. He played. I think that's BS. Especially if he didn't have an injury. That sucks for the fan. That's why I give MJ so much credit. He knew it was business. Even when he had a ****ed up knee with the Wizards. He played.

Watching Kawhi rest all season just to get to the playoffs and then get hurt. It makes less sense.

But also I know with everything I said above. It's not going to change anything. These guys can still fake an injury or use some excuse. I think load management is here to stay. Especially with players who have a chronic injury history.

[tru11]

Re: NBA Off Topic Thread

Dudes make a lot of money to be healthy scratches.

People pay a lot to go to games to see these guys that get paid a lot of money being all healthy in street clothes on the bench.




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[dubcity]

Re: NBA Off Topic Thread

That's why I give MJ so much credit. He knew it was business. Even when he had a ****ed up knee with the Wizards. He played.

Kobe too. The idea of playing 82 games a year just isn't a thing anymore, especially among star players. Steph had a decent run of years when he average around 80.

[georgiafan]

Re: NBA Off Topic Thread

If you take a step back its pretty wild to think the biggest issue the NBA has is getting their players to play in games. It's even more frustrating because it's not working as injuries appear to be up from decades ago.

The obvious solution is to cut back on 82 games since it's not even going to affect stats. But that's not going to happen because neither side want to give up the $.

[ProfessaPackMan]

Re: NBA Off Topic Thread

Sheesh:

https://apnews.com/article/houston-rockets-kevin-porter-jr-assault-arrest-f560d0198b148df4817110dd1d0c902c

[J_Posse]

Re: NBA Off Topic Thread

Sheesh:

https://apnews.com/article/houston-r...7110dd1d0c902c

Gross.

They gotta drop the hammer on him and suspend him indefinitely. Disgusting behavior.

Sent from my Pixel 7 using Tapatalk

[ojandpizza]

Re: NBA Off Topic Thread

That's why I give MJ so much credit. He knew it was business. Even when he had a ****ed up knee with the Wizards. He played.

This logic being used in these arguments absolutely annoys the hell out of me though.

We know in today's game players are going to sit out more games with minor injuries, it's too many hundreds of millions at stake for the players, team/owners. If it means missing 2-3 games when someone in the past missed 0 with a minor injury I don't see some giant glaring issue.

But the whole "Jordan played 82 at 40 years old" is such a ridiculous comparison. For one that was his farewell tour. You think many players who miss games now are going to miss games knowing it's their last season ever? (assuming healthy enough to play)... Of course not. Comparing some dude in the heart of his prime in line for another 200m dollar extension isn't even a remotely fair comparison to some dude playing the last year of this entire career. Of course he wasn't going to miss any of those games. Every other player is also likely going to try to play every game they can if they know it's their last year to ever play...

Jordan only played 60 games the year before that.. "But he was injured" yes, just like 95% of the reason these dudes miss time now as well. Injuries. But context is always lost in 1.) anything tied to MJ and 2.) anything people don't like about the current game.

IDK I saw Ty Lue brining this up on All the Smoke, and that's likely in part because his team is one of the rare instances of sitting games actually being abused.. But the comparison is silly. Why would Jordan miss any game he physically could play in knowing he was never playing again?

And I don't mean any of that as a knock on MJ, he rarely missed games his entire career. But that example as a comparison is bogus. Like Jokic missed 4-5 games at the very end of the year this last year for no reason. But they were the 1 seed, they needed to be healthy/rested for a post-season run, him playing wasn't changing their seeding, etc. We have people looking at that through the "MJ played all 82 at 40" lens.. Like the scenarios between those two isn't even remotely comparable lol.

[VDusen04]

Re: NBA Off Topic Thread

And I don't mean any of that as a knock on MJ, he rarely missed games his entire career. But that example as a comparison is bogus. Like Jokic missed 4-5 games at the very end of the year this last year for no reason. But they were the 1 seed, they needed to be healthy/rested for a post-season run, him playing wasn't changing their seeding, etc. We have people looking at that through the "MJ played all 82 at 40" lens.. Like the scenarios between those two isn't even remotely comparable lol.

I think the bold kind of makes his point. Whether it was Jordan's last season or not, he played when healthy, as did the majority of players throughout league history.

We can talk about all the millions at stake and there's validity there when a player's health is at significant risk. I'd understand someone opting not to try to repeat Isiah Thomas' sprained ankle performance in the '88 Finals. Otherwise though, the money these teams and players are making is based upon the concept of people wanting to see the best in the world play, whether in person or elsewise. So it makes complete sense to me that the league would attempt in intervene upon an emerging culture of stars just taking random games off for general rest.

I see it as the league trying to get ahead of something that was probably only to get uglier with time. To bring back Michael Jordan as a comparison, even when the Pistons were in the midst of a total rebuild, you could count on fans selling out the Palace when the Bulls came to town because folks knew they were going to be able to see Michael Jordan play. It might even be one of the Pistons' only nationally televised games as well. That was good for the Pistons, good for the league, and good for the fans.

Unfortunately, you can't really count on that same reliability and dependability with a number of today's stars. It's pretty wack place to be as fans, where buying tickets suddenly becomes a gamble with less-than-stellar odds.

[ojandpizza]

NBA Off Topic Thread

I think the bold kind of makes his point. Whether it was Jordan's last season or not, he played when healthy, as did the majority of players throughout league history.

No, the bold is more in line with what you’re saying here and the rest of your post. That part has validity because it’s true that MJ (or insert other player) played more games where they could play than todays players..

That farewell tour point made is picking the extreme example in an attempt to trigger hot-takey driven arguments between two things that aren’t really comparable. If this was the last season of Joker’s career he wouldn’t have sat those last few games when seeding was set, probably wouldn’t have sat them regardless if they weren’t the 1 seed.. If LeBron was hanging it all up this year he plays that Nets game regardless of the foot because it’s his last year ever…. And so on for whatever other player as well.

It’s just an outlier of an example to trigger response in situations that aren’t comparable. Jordan playing 60 games the year before that proves the opposite, and while those missed games are related to injury so are 95+% of missed games now.. we just have expert fans who think they know more about those injuries than team doctors, trainers, coaches, and the player who actually has the injury. And ignore all context when trying to make a point against the modern NBA..

We can talk about all the millions at stake and there's validity there when a player's health is at significant risk. I'd understand someone opting not to try to repeat Isiah Thomas' sprained ankle performance in the '88 Finals. Otherwise though, the money these teams and players are making is based upon the concept of people wanting to see the best in the world play, whether in person or elsewise. So it makes complete sense to me that the league would attempt in intervene upon an emerging culture of stars just taking random games off for general rest.

There is validity beyond just that because currently the leagues best players are staying better and for longer. If sitting games with minor injuries, sitting a back to back after coming back from an injury, sitting a couple games after seeding is set in stone shows correlation to increasing All-Star level players careers 3-4 years then those games are proving to be worth it. That’s beneficial to the player, the team, the owner, the league overall, and the fans… if the money is based on the concept of seeing the best in the world then missing a couple extra games a year with the reward being an extra maybe 250 games overall is a massive net win.

Sure there are other factors involved in increased longevity. Better doctors, equipment, training, travel, etc… but all that goes hand in hand with recovery as well. You can’t pinpoint exactly which provides more, but being precautionary is part of that equation regardless.

Those players also probably took more **** back then to “heal” faster too.. stuff that is more easily and readily tested against now and is on banned PED lists but was once upon a time legal.. but that’s a separate argument all together. NBA players now have access to better legal medicine for sure, but the **** that really works is now banned and tested against also..

I see it as the league trying to get ahead of something that was probably only to get uglier with time. To bring back Michael Jordan as a comparison, even when the Pistons were in the midst of a total rebuild, you could count on fans selling out the Palace when the Bulls came to town because folks knew they were going to be able to see Michael Jordan play. It might even be one of the Pistons' only nationally televised games as well. That was good for the Pistons, good for the league, and good for the fans.

Unfortunately, you can't really count on that same reliability and dependability with a number of today's stars. It's pretty wack place to be as fans, where buying tickets suddenly becomes a gamble with less-than-stellar odds.

But let’s be honest how many players are actually just missing games for no reason at all?

And how much of this is from the outlier situation (Kawhi and the Clippers) vs the league as a whole? This is just like when Harden and Houston were outliers for their play-style and and bending league rules but fans tried their damndest to act like every team was playing exactly like Houston and every team had a James Harden.

And let’s be honest again how much of this whole issue is also just ridiculously over-exaggerated ?

On average All-Star caliber players miss about 4 more games than the 2000s, and 8 more games than the 90s.. You could say a couple of games a year of that difference is sitting with minor (but legit) injuries, a couple a year sitting a back to back, a couple a year from seeding.. so the actual sitting for no reason difference is what, 2-3 games? And that’s assuming that number isn’t already ridiculously inflated from outliers like Kawhi, Ben Simmons, Kyrie who’ve sat substantially more random non-injury related games over the past few years than the other players..

Not to mention in some instances we see that this works. On top of the longevity thing. That Nets game Jeebs pointed out was a back to back where Bron was dealing with a foot injury that bugged him all playoffs, AD had just missed 20 straight games and he sat, and KD and Kyrie weren’t expected to play. (Kyrie ended up playing).. I’m not sure many if any team doctors are clearing them for back to backs in that situation knowing they need them healthy for a late season push to climb from 13th to 7th..

So worst case scenario some fans who bought tickets feelings are hurt, reward is they ultimate did stay healthy (enough anyways) to make that run and get all the way to the WCF, Joker sat those late games and was fresh in the playoffs and won a ring, Heat coasted all regular season and the result was getting to the finals again… there is just little to prove that the fans feelings win out in this situation, especially compiled with the longevity aspect on top of it all.

And again the perceived difference in games from angry fans who want a reason to complain about the modern NBA and what that difference actually is are really far apart.. as a most issues fans complain about… if the real argument is Joel Embiid missed like 3 games he could have played compared against ***insert random MVP from 30 years ago*** then is this really as big of an issue as people insist? Of course not.

[tru11]

Re: NBA Off Topic Thread

Mj played 82 games 9 times in his 15 year career.

2nd year he played 18 games due to a broken leg.
5th year he played 81 games.
8th year 80 games.
9th year 78 games.
10th year 17 games when he came from baseball late in the season.
14th season at age 39 played 60 games before sitting out due to a leg injury.

The fact that he played 82 games at age 40 has little to do with a farewell tour and everything to do with the man simply playing when he can play.

He said himself that fans pay good money to see him play, thus if he can play he will play.
He backed that up by playing.

If players back in the days could do it then players of today should be able to do it as well.

Circumstances are much better today, yet people have gotten so much softer while making that much more money.
Quite hilarious to say the least…




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[dubcity]

Re: NBA Off Topic Thread

In general I question the validity of "not playing = staying healthy" as a concept/philosophy. Load management, bubble wrap, whatever.

I would rather players play limited minutes instead of taking games off completely. It's a long season, and post-season added on is a ton games (assuming they go deep), but the constant stop/start and ramping up is where injuries happen.

Kawhi sitting out tons of games did not protect him from another serious injury, but who actually believed it would? And a guy like Russell Westbrook will play game after game forever, in spite of past serious injuries and surgeries. It's just a different mindset.

[VDusen04]

Re: NBA Off Topic Thread

On average All-Star caliber players miss about 4 more games than the 2000s, and 8 more games than the 90s..

Is this statistic for real? Or just a shot from the hip? Are all-stars really missing an average of eight more games than stars of the '90s?! Because that'd be wild, and all the more reason for the league to tune in and take notice.

The question I imagine the league had to ask itself at some point is how far is too far? With every couple of years gone by, it seems more and more reasons emerge to excuse players from actually participating in games. General fatigue, the back end of a back-to-back, seeding reasons, preventative rest. I think it's fair for the league and fans to wonder how far this was going to go before any sort of regulation was instituted.

Could there have been other routes taken? Less games? Absent star rainout bonuses for fans who bought tickets to marquee games? Sure. But the league seems to have started by taking the path of least resistance. So in the meantime, I find it relatively acceptable for the NBA to institute guidelines to ensure that its players are playing the games they're being paid to play.

[ojandpizza]

NBA Off Topic Thread

Mj played 82 games 9 times in his 15 year career.

2nd year he played 18 games due to a broken leg.
5th year he played 81 games.
8th year 80 games.
9th year 78 games.
10th year 17 games when he came from baseball late in the season.
14th season at age 39 played 60 games before sitting out due to a leg injury.

The fact that he played 82 games at age 40 has little to do with a farewell tour and everything to do with the man simply playing when he can play.

He said himself that fans pay good money to see him play, thus if he can play he will play.
He backed that up by playing.

If players back in the days could do it then players of today should be able to do it as well.

Circumstances are much better today, yet people have gotten so much softer while making that much more money.
Quite hilarious to say the least…




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None of this is what I’m arguing against..

Again my post isn’t a knock on MJ or stating that he would miss games if not healthy. My post has nothing at all to do with how many games MJ played throughout his career, has nothing to do with my point. My point is what little the comment has to do with current players.

And I never stated MJ only played 82 games because of his farewell tour. He always played when healthy enough to play. I’m saying other players who might miss random games wouldn’t miss those same games on THEIR farewell tour. So the comparison is useless in that sense to bring up what MJ did at 40 because any player playing his last season is going to play every game he possibly can. Everything I’ve typed had very little to do with MJ and everything to do with the situation. It’s pointless because these same players missing a handful of games in their prime aren’t missing those games either at 40 (if they can play). So the comparison of MJ at 40 vs some guy in line for a 200mm extension if he’s stays healthy right now is pointless.

It’s like “Embiid sat 5 games for rest and MJ played all 82 at 40 this league is a joke”… if this was Embiid’s last season he wouldn’t miss those 5 games for rest either, that’s my point. That’s why it’s a horrible example. If Embiid had no injury history he’d probably play 82 every year as well. It’s different for different players.

Whether players today “can” do it is irrelevant. Owners and trainers aren’t going to want them to play with any minor injuries along the away. It makes no sense. They have hundreds of millions tied into these players, not 5 million, players are in line for hundreds of millions, not 5 million. It’s completely different.

And players are lasting longer now, and healthier/rested teams are making deeper playoff runs. There is no reason for any of this to change other than a few fans hurt feelings..

And again, we are taking single digit differences in games. The arguments against all this are acting like healthy players are randomly sitting 20 games and that every player from yesteryear played all 82 every season. That’s ridiculously far from reality.

Parts of the reason “circumstances are better” is because teams value not playing their stars with nagging injuries in a meaningless game in December. Again proof is in the boom in longevity. Would be stupid to go backwards because a fan bought a ticket and got his feelings hurt.

Not that I’m against the rule change. If this change weeds out a few of the random “rest” games where teams just randomly sit healthy stars then I’m all for it. But people need to realize that’s like 2-3 games a year, so expecting this rule to really change much is false hope and pointless. Again it’s a rule that’s been implemented that’s going to change nothing but people who don’t want to analyze it deeper are just like “finally they are doing something”.. they aren’t changing a damn thing to a degree that it will matter.

[ojandpizza]

NBA Off Topic Thread

Is this statistic for real? Or just a shot from the hip? Are all-stars really missing an average of eight more games than stars of the '90s?! Because that'd be wild, and all the more reason for the league to tune in and take notice.

The question I imagine the league had to ask itself at some point is how far is too far? With every couple of years gone by, it seems more and more reasons emerge to excuse players from actually participating in games. General fatigue, the back end of a back-to-back, seeding reasons, preventative rest. I think it's fair for the league and fans to wonder how far this was going to go before any sort of regulation was attempted.

I'm not saying we'd hit some sort of catastrophic level when it came to missed games, but I am saying it's probably wise for the league to address this before leaving the door open for us to eventually head that way.

Could there have been other routes taken? Less games? Absent star rainout bonuses for fans who bought tickets to marquee games? Sure. But I imagine the league's not ready to go there. So in the meantime, I find it relatively acceptable for the NBA to institute guidelines to ensure that its players are playing the games they're being paid to play.

It’s real if the page I read it on was legit [emoji23]. But again, how much Kawhi, PG, Ben Simmons, Kyrie inflates that number since they are all All-Stars is fair to question. That 8 games could be like 3. And we know teams/coaches sit stars when the playoff seeding is final and that has nothing to do with the players being “soft” and everything to do with trying to get a ring. Right or wrong that inflates that number as well and isn’t something really in the players mentality. Imagine Joker gets hurt last game of the season so everyone who bought a ticket is happy, no ring.

To your last point, I’m not against the rule. I just don’t think it actually does anything other than make those happy who complain about it now..

And my overall point was more so the MJ at 40 thing, because I’ve seen that quote posted about 200 times since Ty Lue said it, and I don’t think it’s relevant because I don’t know many, if any, healthy players will just sit games on their farewell tour. Again, not a knock to MJ, we all know he’s going for 82 regardless when he is able.

[ojandpizza]

Re: NBA Off Topic Thread

In general I question the validity of "not playing = staying healthy" as a concept/philosophy. Load management, bubble wrap, whatever.

I would rather players play limited minutes instead of taking games off completely. It's a long season, and post-season added on is a ton games (assuming they go deep), but the constant stop/start and ramping up is where injuries happen.

Kawhi sitting out tons of games did not protect him from another serious injury, but who actually believed it would? And a guy like Russell Westbrook will play game after game forever, in spite of past serious injuries and surgeries. It's just a different mindset.

I don’t disagree with any of this but my overall point is more so Kawhi is not the norm either. People act as if Kawhi’s situation represents everyone else who misses games situation and that’s not the case. That’s my biggest issue with the overall thought process behind the whole argument is people act as if everyone is doing what Kawhi is doing. It’s the extreme case example to make a point that largely doesn’t apply elsewhere. Not nearly to that agree anyways.

It’s the exact same situation as when everyone wanted a bunch of universal rule changes because watching Harden + Houston was awful basketball from a viewer standpoint. So they acted like it was a league wide problem that needed to be resolved instead of acknowledging that they were a massive outlier.