Mayweather-Ortiz Sept 16th

[allBthere]

Re: Mayweather-Ortiz Sept 16th

WOW, folks hate Floyd so much they dispute compubox.

don't put words in my mouth bro, I read the post, looked at the stats and saw that it's wrong. On the other hand Some Floyd nuthuggers are saying things like Ortiz landed nothing in the fight - Ortiz landed a few big shots, Floyd even admitted to being hit in his post fight interview, ortiz also landed a couple jabs (they were ineffective landing on the forehead, but that still scores)

Floyd outlanded him and out %aged him - I just saw that compubox was wrong and said as much. I also think Ortiz was losing, but would have nothing in the 4th to have happened to see it go deeper because I think Ortiz was doing better than most of Floyds opponents and landed with some power on occasion.

Whatever though, I used to think compubox/strike was 100% when I was younger, now I don't so that makes me a floyd *****.


Like others I just want pac/floyd to dance, but heard an interesting opinion that one of the reasons it won't happen is because they are the 2 biggest draws in boxing, so when one of them loses you lose one massive draw. One promotion losing a bunch of earning potential. I'm not sure I agree totally with that, but I think it has some truth.

[fistofrage]

Re: Mayweather-Ortiz Sept 16th

What a lot of you fail to realize while waiting for the savior Manny to give Floyd his first L...Marquez gave Manny the fight of his life...twice! Their last fight was only about 3 years ago. I'm sure the third fight will be another brawl. Manny may come out on top because Marquez is now 38, but if Marquez could do that to Pacman, imagine what Floyd would do. Only difference is that Floyd won't take much punishment back, and Floyd is stronger and quicker than Marquez. Manny may be bigger now than he was when he last fought Marquez, but your face face will always be susceptible to getting lumped up, no matter how big you get.

So talk to Floyd, tell Floyd how he'll smash Pac and get him to sign on the dotted line. Use your Pimpin skills to get this done.

[bigeastbumrush]

Re: Mayweather-Ortiz Sept 16th

Floyd could have a rematch with Ortiz and make more in the 2nd fight. He is a master promoter. How the heck could he walk away with 30-40 million for this fight? The casual fan think Floyd took a cheap shot and would come out to see Ortiz get another shot.

Ortiz equal the ultimate underdog and Floyd well is Floyd.

I paid for Mayweather/Ortiz 1 and there's no way I'd pay for another. Makes no sense.

And there is no way they could hype a rematch.

[King_B_Mack]

Re: Mayweather-Ortiz Sept 16th

People still don't get that Floyd is a marketing genius. Actually both camps are geniuses. The fight WILL happen, there's entirely too much money for it not to happen. It's like thinking the NFL lockout would actually continue into the regular season. With all that cash on the line there was absolutely NO WAY that deal wasn't getting done. Same thing here.

Floyd and Pac have taken a fight that would get a lot of buzz for a few weeks prior to the fight and done some big numbers into something that's got years of hype, that'll be marketed as the fight that no one thought would happen, that won't do some big numbers but absolutely astronomical numbers. More and more people are going to pay money clinging to they're belief that Floyd is going to get knocked out by Pacman and they could actually rape people for 70-90 bucks for this fight and get away with it. This fight will make more money than any PPV event in history simply because of the route it took to get made and because Floyd plays the villain so well that people will open up they're wallets just to see a result that more than likely isn't going to happen.

[Bumi]

Re: Mayweather-Ortiz Sept 16th

don't put words in my mouth bro, I read the post, looked at the stats and saw that it's wrong.

Compubox numbers were wrong?

On the other hand Some Floyd nuthuggers are saying things like Ortiz landed nothing in the fight - Ortiz landed a few big shots, Floyd even admitted to being hit in his post fight interview, ortiz also landed a couple jabs (they were ineffective landing on the forehead, but that still scores)

What big shots? At what point, in which round? I'd like to go back and see them for myself. Luckily, I DVR'd the fight for this very reason.

Btw, Ortiz went 0-31 on jabs.

Floyd outlanded him and out %aged him - I just saw that compubox was wrong and said as much. I also think Ortiz was losing, but would have nothing in the 4th to have happened to see it go deeper because I think Ortiz was doing better than most of Floyds opponents and landed with some power on occasion.

Ortiz was doing good you think? I can't say I saw the same. Floyd landed 55% of his power punches in the 4th. He threw somewhere around 70 in the 4th I believe. Can't recall correctly, but I'll take a look when I get home.

[aholbert32]

Re: Mayweather-Ortiz Sept 16th

Floyd could have a rematch with Ortiz and make more in the 2nd fight. He is a master promoter. How the heck could he walk away with 30-40 million for this fight? The casual fan think Floyd took a cheap shot and would come out to see Ortiz get another shot.

Ortiz equal the ultimate underdog and Floyd well is Floyd.

You do realize most people walked away from this fight unhappy, right? Its not like Ortiz was winning the fight in people's eyes. He was down 3-0 when he headbutted Floyd. I havent seen one reporter or news agency demand a rematch and I dont think HBO would be willing to promote it. I'm a diehard and there is no way I would pay for a rematch.

[Bumi]

Re: Mayweather-Ortiz Sept 16th

Btw, why do people keep saying Floyd wont fight Manny? Didn't he already provide proof that he signed his part of the contract, as well as had his fight attire ready for the Pacquiao bout? Fight hype posted the video months ago. Check it out if you get the chance.

Also, how exactly would Floyd know that requesting USADA testing would be a deterrent? And when has Floyd ever ducked an opponent?

If anything, given the histories of the two fighters, the only fighter here avoiding the fight is Pacquiao(or Arum). And I think we all know why.

[aholbert32]

Re: Mayweather-Ortiz Sept 16th

Compubox numbers were wrong?



What big shots? At what point, in which round? I'd like to go back and see them for myself. Luckily, I DVR'd the fight for this very reason.

Btw, Ortiz went 0-31 on jabs.



Ortiz was doing good you think? I can't say I saw the same. Floyd landed 55% of his power punches in the 4th. He threw somewhere around 70 in the 4th I believe. Can't recall correctly, but I'll take a look when I get home.

Round 4. Thats the reason Floyd was against the ropes. Ortiz missed a ton of shots in the 4th but he landed two solid left hands during that round and they hurt Floyd. I'm not saying Ortiz was winning or even had a shot but he did land a few serious shots.

[Bumi]

Re: Mayweather-Ortiz Sept 16th

Floyd wont fight Khan (Khan is going up to 147 yet) and a Ortiz rematch gives him significantly less money. Thats what matters to Floyd. He had the advantage of having other name fighters like Marquez and Mosley to sell his other fights. After the Ortiz debacle, he's painted into a corner. He has to fight Manny or take a significant cut in revenue.

Barring injuries, the fight will happen in May.

Not that he should, but why wont he? He'd make just as much money from a fight with Khan than he did with Ortiz. Plus, given Khans weak chin, it'd probably be easy work.

[aholbert32]

Re: Mayweather-Ortiz Sept 16th

Btw, why do people keep saying Floyd wont fight Manny? Didn't he already provide proof that he signed his part of the contract, as well as had his fight attire ready for the Pacquiao bout? Fight hype posted the video months ago. Check it out if you get the chance.

Also, how exactly would Floyd know that requesting USADA testing would be a deterrent? And when has Floyd ever ducked an opponent?

If anything, given the histories of the two fighters, the only fighter here avoiding the fight is Pacquiao(or Arum). And I think we all know why.

You are only referring to the 1st negotiation. After the Mosley fight, Pac and Floyd negotiated again, Pac agreed to the USADA testing and Floyd backed out. How do I know. Because HBO's Ross Greensburg said as much. Floyd and his people outright lied and said no negotiations took place but Arum, Pac and HBO all confirmed that negotiations were ongoing.

Floyd "ducked" Margarito, Cotto and Williams. All were welterweight contenders and Floyd chose to "retire" for 21 months instead of fighting them. When he came back from his "retirement" he chose to fight an undersized Marquez instead of a true welterweight.

[aholbert32]

Re: Mayweather-Ortiz Sept 16th

Not that he should, but why wont he? He'd make just as much money from a fight with Khan than he did with Ortiz. Plus, given Khans weak chin, it'd probably be easy work.

I doubt Khan would take the fight right now because of his close relationship with Pac and I dont think HBO thinks he's ready yet.

[Bumi]

Re: Mayweather-Ortiz Sept 16th

You are only referring to the 1st negotiation. After the Mosley fight, Pac and Floyd negotiated again, Pac agreed to the USADA testing and Floyd backed out. How do I know. Because HBO's Ross Greensburg said as much. Floyd and his people outright lied and said no negotiations took place but Arum, Pac and HBO all confirmed that negotiations were ongoing.

Manny never agreed to full USADA testing. If so, provide the link. I'd love to see it. He and his team wanted to be notified when testers were coming, and they requested a cutoff. Floyd addressed the issue the other night, actually.

His response? "They're lying to y'all man. USADA is right here. They're about to take a sample from me now. Ask them if Pacquiao agreed to testing."

Unless you're referring to Arum claiming they agreed to full testing in July, but that they wanted a different, or "neutral" organization to do the testing. At this time, Floyd had already agreed to fight Ortiz.

Floyd "ducked" Margarito, Cotto

He never ducked Margarito nor Cotto, and if you're a diehard, you know this.

Floyd told Arum he'd fight Margarito for 7 million, but that he wanted 10 million guaranteed for both the Cotto and Hatton fights. Arum only guaranteed him 7 for both, respectively.

Arum also said Floyd asked for 20 million for the Oscar fight. What was Arums response? “That’s not in the cards,” Arum said. “He wants $20 million for the De La Hoya fight? It’s not there. Sometimes, my man, you gotta know when to hold ‘em and when to fold ‘em. We’ll talk about things down the road.”

So, Floyd left. He fought Baldo(who hadn't lost in 8 years, and who people claimed would dominate Floyd with his size. He was also the lineal champ), and followed up with Oscar. His two biggest pay days. He made $8 million from the Baldo fight, and more than three times that for the Oscar fight.

And then there's the issue with the timeline. When Mayweather was scheduled to fight Judah, Margarito was coming off a fourteen month layoff and had just defended his WBO title against dubious challenger, Manuel Gomez.

Margarito would go on to take another ten month hiatus before fighting an, at the time, unknown Joshua Clottey. Margarito was being outclassed early on until Clottey suffered injuries to his hands and had to spend the last two-thirds of the bout just surviving. Margarito would follow the Clottey win with a loss to Paul Williams followed by a comeback blow-out against journeyman Golden Johnson.

Margarito's popularity and credibility as a top challenger amounted to squat until his win over Miguel Cotto. Eight months after Mayweather's retirement.

While Mayweather was chasing the lineal 147 lb. championship and beating Ring Magazine's No. 1 and No. 2 ranked Welterweights at the time, Margarito was well in the background as an inactive fringe champion who was only known among a relative few hardcore fans and had yet to set himself apart.

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As for Cotto? Cotto sat ringside during the Mayweather vs. Gatto fight. At the time, he was ranked #5 by ringside, and had just recently moved to 140. After that fight, his camp never made an offer. He wasn't ready, and the world knew it.

And when he finally had established himself as a legitimate threat at 147, after beating Judah and Mosely, Floyd was involved in the biggest PPV of all time. Could Mayweather have turned down the Oscar and Hatton fights to have it out with Cotto? Of course. But what fighters in history would turn down 20 million dollar checks and mega-events in favor of a third of the money and one-eighth the publicity?

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All this "ducking" nonsense didn't come about until after Floyd left top rank. What are Margo and Cotto? Top rank fighters.

and Williams. All were welterweight contenders and Floyd chose to "retire" for 21 months instead of fighting them. When he came back from his "retirement" he chose to fight an undersized Marquez instead of a true welterweight.

I guess he shouldn't fight Pac then, being that Pac is undersized and not a "true" welterweight. Funny, isn't it? Floyd isn't too big for Pacquiao, but he's too big for Marquez(who was p4p #2 at the time), yet they're the same size.

Also, he never ducked Williams. Williams and Floyd were in the same division for all of 5 months. And if you wish to say Floyd ducked Williams, then so did everyone else at WW, including Manny.

[wyrm187]

Re: Mayweather-Ortiz Sept 16th

nah floyd never ducked anyone lol, looks like you need to get your head out from between money's legs bumi, lol just sayin

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2009/writers/chris_mannix/09/17/mayweather-marquez/index.html

[aholbert32]

Re: Mayweather-Ortiz Sept 16th

Pac has said it himself in several interviews that he is willing to take the USADA. He actually said it during 24/7 and an ESPN interview if I recall. I dont have the time or inclination to look both of those things up but I remember them. Also I like how you ignored the fact that Floyd outright lied about there never being negotiations. Now why would he do that?

I'll go one by one:

Cotto: Your dates are messed up. Cotto had got the biggest win of his career in Nov 2007 against Mosley. Floyd fought Hatton in Dec 2007. He could have easily fought Cotto after that fight and if I recall Merchant mentioned Cotto in the post fight interview. Floyd chose to "retire". Thats a duck.

Williams: They were in the for 2 years 2006-2008 and one of the reasons Paul left welterweight was because he couldnt get any of the marquee guys to fight him. Paul is another guy who was coming off of his biggest win (Margarito) when Floyd chose to "retire". Thats a duck.

I'll give Floyd a pass on Margarito because he was chasing the De la Hoya fight during that time.

The difference between Pac and Marquez is Pac is a proven 147. He's won fights there. Marquez jumped two weight classes for that fight.

[Bumi]

Re: Mayweather-Ortiz Sept 16th

Pac has said it himself in several interviews that he is willing to take the USADA. He actually said it during 24/7 and an ESPN interview if I recall. I dont have the time or inclination to look both of those things up but I remember them. Also I like how you ignored the fact that Floyd outright lied about there never being negotiations. Now why would he do that?

Doesn't matter what he tells to the media, if he had agreed to it, he would have signed the dotted line. And I know for a fact he never agreed to USADA testing because Arum came out in July and flat out stated they didn't want USADA doing the testing.

Lets no get into the lies aspect of it. "I'm scared if needled." Enough said.

Cotto: Your dates are messed up. Cotto had got the biggest win of his career in Nov 2007 against Mosley. Floyd fought Hatton in Dec 2007. He could have easily fought Cotto after that fight and if I recall Merchant mentioned Cotto in the post fight interview. Floyd chose to "retire". Thats a duck.

Yea, Cotto's biggest win came a month prior to Floyd's retirement. No ducking involved. Interpret as you may, but Cotto had his chance and his camp never sought out the fight. He didn't want it. He would have been destroyed.

Williams: They were in the for 2 years 2006-2008 and one of the reasons Paul left welterweight was because he couldnt get any of the marquee guys to fight him. Paul is another guy who was coming off of his biggest win (Margarito) when Floyd chose to "retire". Thats a duck.

Williams deserved a fight? Moreover, if everyone was avoiding Williams(and I don't blame them, he certaintly wasn't a conventional WW in terms of size), then how did Floyd duck him? Didn't Manny publicly avoid a fight with Williams?

The difference between Pac and Marquez is Pac is a proven 147. He's won fights there. Marquez jumped two weight classes for that fight.

Sicnce Manny is a legit and proven WW, then he's too big for Marquez, correct?