The producers are blaming boxing for this game failure

[Keenan G.]

Re: The producers are blaming boxing for this game failure

If Boxing wants more fans they need to show fights on cable TV. UFC has fights on Spike and Versus while Boxing is only HBO and Pay-Per-View

I agree. Need more fights on Cable Tvto stir up interest. Boxing needs to selling itself like UFC. Also, need big time fights atleast once month. Having fighters like Pac Man and Mayweather not fight each other hurts the sport. sigh....

[phillyfan23]

Re: The producers are blaming boxing for this game failure

I used to think that too, but not anymore.
UFC isn't 'real' fighting either. You can't drop a 12-6 elbow, knee a downed opponent, bite, scratch, sack, headbutt or soccer kick.

Even with all of that, a MMA is going to beat a boxer most of the time. As anyone knows, wrestling trumps any sort of striking skills.
I knew a guy once who was 165lbs soaking wet and witnessed him taking down a 250+ biker dude with ease using his highschool wrestling skills.
Once he wrapped himself around him, the big dude couldn't do anything until someone broke them up.

Saying that, it's for that reason I prefer boxing. I like striking. For me, I'd far prefer watching two guys trade hands than roll around on the ground looking for openings for a hammer-punch or submissions.
Think about it. If you saw 2 fights break out on the street with one featuring two guys rolling around on the ground, or the other guys standing and trading, which do you think would attract more attention?
That's why I'm shocked with the popularity of UFC. WAY too many fights are hug fests.
It's also why the people who run boxing need to get their heads out of their butts and work to fix the game.
If they put on monthly boxing cards that featured top contenders against each other, boxing could possibly remove UFC off the map.
But we know it'll never happen.

yes it's not real fighting.....that is why i said it is the closest to real fighting and it's much closer to real fighting than boxing...

wrestling will beat striking most of the time because there are gloves. In real life, one solid bare-knucle punch will result in damage. Not so much with the MMA gloves. wrestling will still win out but not by as much.

that is why MMA forces you to be well versed in striking and grappling. You will never see anymore one-dimensional champions. It's important to be able to wrestle but you need takedown defense to flourish as a striker. Machida , Silva....both have above average takedown defense and they can display amazing striking games. They display a lot of skills that boxing teaches. Foot movement, head movement, counters, straight punches. It's all there.

I also prefer striking over wrestling by far....so people would assume i would prefer boxing. Well it's kind of interesting to see 2 styles match up and the striker avoid the takedowns and pick apart the opponent. you don't have that aspect in boxing.

There will always be snoozefests in MMA and in boxing.....but as a whole mma is more varied, more dynamic, and more unpredictable than boxing. One punch can change the fight in boxing, but that occurs much more in MMA, as well kick, knee, elbows, submissions, slams, etc....you get the point.

I'd love to see boxing return to its glory days....but i dont see it....or at least anytime soon. Even if they do get their act together.....MMA will live on provided they keep their model.

[BoomerSooner420]

Re: The producers are blaming boxing for this game failure

I'm not gonna bother quoting anyone, but all the "mma fighters can beat up boxers" crap, is just that... crap. MMA fighters are better at... wait for it... M M A. Boxers are better at boxing. It's like saying the Miami Heat would beat the Green Bay Packers at basketball, although both are sports, it's 2 totally different things with totally different skills involved. Randy Couture even said, after beating up James Toney in an MMA match (lol), that Toney would whoop him in a boxing match.

I'm not sure why people think they have to like either or, and not both. Probably because, like it's been said here, people think MMA is like "real fighting" even though that couldn't be further from the truth. In a real fight I might kick you in the balls and shove my thumb in your eye until it popped like a grape (theoretically speaking) and maybe even more realistically, the loser would shoot the winner with a 9mm. We've all seen strikers KO wrestlers before as well, so saying that wrestlers always win is equally absurd.

I like to tease my friends who are diehard MMA fans and boxing haters, that MMA is just wrestling with with punches and kicks, and they like to say that boxing is pillow fighting, but in MMA you don't have to get up and keep fighting after getting a concussion and only 10 seconds to recover, and in boxing they don't let you stand over a downed opponent and beat his face in with no time to recover. I actually enjoy both boxing and MMA, but in an argument I will usually side with boxing simply because it's a glaring ignorance for what boxing actually is... a sport, a science, and a discipline. I think the biggest challenge in making a boxing game is the true technical nature of the sport. There's just no way to mask flaws and inaccuracies in a boxing sim.

But it's all off topic, the game has problems that have nothing to do with the real sports of boxing and MMA.

[phillyfan23]

Re: The producers are blaming boxing for this game failure

I'm not gonna bother quoting anyone, but all the "mma fighters can beat up boxers" crap, is just that... crap. MMA fighters are better at... wait for it... M M A. Boxers are better at boxing. It's like saying the Miami Heat would beat the Green Bay Packers at basketball, although both are sports, it's 2 totally different things with totally different skills involved. Randy Couture even said, after beating up James Toney in an MMA match(****), that Toney would whoop him in a boxing match.

I'm not sure why people think they have to like either or, and not both. Probably because, like it's been said here, people think MMA is like "real fighting" even though that couldn't be further from the truth. In a real fight I might kick you in the balls and shove my thumb in your eye until it popped like a grape (theoretically speaking) and maybe even more realistically, the loser would shoot the winner with a 9mm.

I said the best mma fighter will beat the best boxer in real combat.....how is that hard to comprehend? I didn't say that mma fighter will beat a boxer with boxing rules. I said real combat......please don't misunderstand.

In a one on one street fight, Jose Aldo would absolutely murder pacquiao/mayweather. For one, Aldo can kick much better, he can pick up those 2 boxers and slam them on their heads, and then choke them out.

Not a boxing match , not an mma match....but an actual fight. People relate to fighting.....and when they make this comparisonm the mma fighter will win.

In a boxing match, Aldo would get his head taken off and get KOed.....but the point is that's not real fighting...that's boxing. In rela fighting, it would be no contest. THAT is why MMA appeals......

and you said that MMA and real fighting are TOTALLY different things.....come on man....don't be ridiculous. MMA is the closest thing to real fighting......much closer than boxing, karate point competitions, kickboxing, grappling matches, etc. Because it includes nearly all aspects of fighting.

[BoomerSooner420]

Re: The producers are blaming boxing for this game failure

I said the best mma fighter will beat the best boxer in real combat.....how is that hard to comprehend? I didn't say that mma fighter will beat a boxer with boxing rules. I said real combat......please don't misunderstand.

In a one on one street fight, Jose Aldo would absolutely murder pacquiao/mayweather. For one, Aldo can kick much better, he can pick up those 2 boxers and slam them on their heads, and then choke them out.

Not a boxing match , not an mma match....but an actual fight. People relate to fighting.....and when they make this comparisonm the mma fighter will win.

In a boxing match, Aldo would get his head taken off and get KOed.....but the point is that's not real fighting...that's boxing. In rela fighting, it would be no contest. THAT is why MMA appeals......

and you said that MMA and real fighting are TOTALLY different things.....come on man....don't be ridiculous. MMA is the closest thing to real fighting......much closer than boxing, karate point competitions, kickboxing, grappling matches, etc. Because it includes nearly all aspects of fighting.

Sounds good in theory, except that Pac and PBF have speed and footwork that might just keep him from ever even getting close, or maybe he tries to slam them and ends up getting his nose bit off, it's ridiculous speculation.

[phillyfan23]

Re: The producers are blaming boxing for this game failure

Sounds good in theory, except that Pac and PBF have speed and footwork that might just keep him from ever even getting close, or maybe he tries to slam them and ends up getting his nose bit off, it's ridiculous speculation.

lol nose bit off.....happens everyday in street fighting right?

MMA covers MOST aspects of real fighting

Boxing covers ONE aspect of real fighting

and you say it's ridiculous to claim MMA fighters would do better than boxers in real fighting? No....

[eye guy]

Re: The producers are blaming boxing for this game failure

MMA is the closest thing to real fighting......much closer than boxing, karate point competitions, kickboxing, grappling matches, etc. Because it includes nearly all aspects of fighting.

As Mayweather once said, "...jack of all trades, master of none..." and by the way, I don't really like the dude...

Let me ask you this. What is real fighting? You could replace boxing in this 'boxing vs mma' debate with any other discipline, and still have the same outcome. MMA owes everything to it's disciplines, not the other way around.

Boxing has a history that will never be rivalled by MMA and to me, MMA is entertainment, boxing is pure sport.

It's the same as a 'Slamball vs Basketball' debate...

[phillyfan23]

Re: The producers are blaming boxing for this game failure

As Mayweather once said, "...jack of all trades, master of none..." and by the way, I don't really like the dude...

Let me ask you this. What is real fighting? You could replace boxing in this 'boxing vs mma' debate with any other discipline, and still have the same outcome. MMA owes everything to it's disciplines, not the other way around.

Boxing has a history that will never be rivalled by MMA and to me, MMA is entertainment, boxing is pure sport.

It's the same as a 'Slamball vs Basketball' debate...

Fighting is something between 2 people trying to impose their will and force using any means necessary.....

Now please...list as many aspects of real fighting that you can list and count how many of those are found in MMA and how many are found in boxing.

theyre both sports AND entertainment. But that is not what i am trying to point out. What makes you think MMA isn't a sport by the way??

Yes you are right....if I replace MMA vs Wrestling.....MMA will win, if i replace MMA vs taekwondo, MMA will win. That is why MMA has that appeal. It covers most areas of fighting. You prove my point here....

master of none jack of all trades.....for the most part yes, although there are quite a few fighters mastering their one art and adding other disciplines to round out their game.

Not debating history.....boxing has the best history as far as all of the combat sports. I never argued that point....I am just pointing out why a lot of people are starting to turn from boxing into MMA. A good MMA fighter has the tools to totally exploit a good boxer. The MMA fighter has options. The boxer has one and only way.The MMA fighter is fighting the olympic wrestling champion, I better train my takedown defense and use my decent striking to KO him.

The MMA fighter faces Mike Tyson.....I better train my jiu-jitsu and take downs. Let him miss that first punch, bring him to the ground and choke him till he falls asleep.

That is the appeal of MMA.....


Why is that so hard to understand? Or a better question might be" Why is that so hard to accept ??

[Money99]

Re: The producers are blaming boxing for this game failure

I totally get what you're saying phillyfan23.
The MMA fighter is certainly better equipped for 'real' combat.

I admire the training and knowledge MMA guys have. It's awesome.
I just don't care for submissions and ground fighting. It's not nearly as entertaining as when two guys stand and bang.

Some UFC fights have been terrific in this regard. Quinton Jackson, Chuck Lidell, Carwin, Tank Abbot, they've have and have had a few beauties.

But guys like John Fitch drive me nuts.
I guess the same could be said for some boxers like Cory Spinks who can't punch their way out of a paper bag.

I just wonder if UFC can earn the same long history that boxing enjoys. I'm not sure it can and it's for a simple reason; because boxing is so simple.
With MMA, there's almost too many dynamics. And it's a bit too easy to negate someone's striking abilities.
With boxing, guys are using the same simple tools. And we've seen some classic bouts over the years between boxers and punchers. There's too many variables in UFC to earn those 'classic' bouts. One where two guys wage a war over 12-15 rounds. You don't get that in MMA either. When guys get gassed, they simply lay on each other. In boxing, someone's getting knocked Spark out.

But who knows? Maybe 50 years from now, UFC might earn that same nostalgia that boxing has. I just wonder if all those guys wearing chin-strap beards, Chinese letter tatto's and drinking Mountain Dew are going to grow and mature with the sport as well.

[TheShizNo1]

Why can't boxing and MMA be talked about without bringing the other up?

[phillyfan23]

Re: The producers are blaming boxing for this game failure

I totally get what you're saying phillyfan23.
The MMA fighter is certainly better equipped for 'real' combat.

I admire the training and knowledge MMA guys have. It's awesome.
I just don't care for submissions and ground fighting. It's not nearly as entertaining as when two guys stand and bang.

Some UFC fights have been terrific in this regard. Quinton Jackson, Chuck Lidell, Carwin, Tank Abbot, they've have and have had a few beauties.

But guys like John Fitch drive me nuts.
I guess the same could be said for some boxers like Cory Spinks who can't punch their way out of a paper bag.

I just wonder if UFC can earn the same long history that boxing enjoys. I'm not sure it can and it's for a simple reason; because boxing is so simple.
With MMA, there's almost too many dynamics. And it's a bit too easy to negate someone's striking abilities.
With boxing, guys are using the same simple tools. And we've seen some classic bouts over the years between boxers and punchers. There's too many variables in UFC to earn those 'classic' bouts. One where two guys wage a war over 12-15 rounds. You don't get that in MMA either. When guys get gassed, they simply lay on each other. In boxing, someone's getting knocked Spark out.

But who knows? Maybe 50 years from now, UFC might earn that same nostalgia that boxing has. I just wonder if all those guys wearing chin-strap beards, Chinese letter tatto's and drinking Mountain Dew are going to grow and mature with the sport as well.

\

it will be hard to have boxing history.....but we'll all be too old to care when that answer arrives. My original point is the real combat aspect....that is one reason why people get attracted to MMA.

People have different tastes and that's great too, you don't care too much for submissions, I feel that is awesome to watch. Wrestling can be good too.
.....Me I loathe watching Fitch and GSP who do nothing but get on top of guys and win by points. But if the wrestling is used to get people down on the ground and attack them viciously ( Jon Jones) it can be very entertaining.

Negating the striking game....about that...if you've noticed striking has really made its return to MMA the past 5 years as people have really concentrated on takedown defense. One of the best strikers in MMA ( machida) has one of the best defenses for takedowns and can impose his will striking. Same with Liddell in his heyday....he feasted on wrestlers. But then couldn't deal with the better strikers who came up in the sport.

Both sports have their safety fighters and fight not to lose instead of to win......they're the snoozeers really.

I really hope Boxing makes its return.....they can start by getting pac-may signed up, and let these corrupt promoters simply expire....I want another tyson to come thru, and i want another Ali- Frazier.....a Duran-hagler-hearns-leonard quartet....it'd be awesome! hopefully sooner than later

[yankeesgiants]

Re: The producers are blaming boxing for this game failure

Why can't boxing and MMA be talked about without bringing the other up?

Because you have hardliners on each each side saying mine is better then yours. Boxing is 2 guys showing one descipline. MMA is a battle of 2 guys showing the descipline of there choice. Which is better is subjective at best. In other words, "too each his own".

The real arguement is which business model is the best going forward. MMA is winning that right now.

[BoomerSooner420]

Re: The producers are blaming boxing for this game failure

lol nose bit off.....happens everyday in street fighting right?

MMA covers MOST aspects of real fighting

Boxing covers ONE aspect of real fighting

and you say it's ridiculous to claim MMA fighters would do better than boxers in real fighting? No....

"Nose bit off" was meant to be just as ridiculous as the argument, but you obviously miss the point, again and again.

And here's some proof that most MMA fighters are glass-jawed clowns. Hmm, I wonder what 1 Pacman skull-fracturing left hand would do to them?

<IFRAME height=390 src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/T14JMqi4qr8" frameBorder=0 width=480 allowfullscreen></IFRAME>

Better hope those wrestling skills pay off...

[phillyfan23]

Re: The producers are blaming boxing for this game failure

"Nose bit off" was meant to be just as ridiculous as the argument, but you obviously miss the point, again and again.

And here's some proof that most MMA fighters are glass-jawed clowns. Hmm, I wonder what 1 Pacman skull-fracturing left hand would do to them?

<IFRAME height=390 src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/T14JMqi4qr8" frameBorder=0 width=480 allowfullscreen></IFRAME>

Better hope those wrestling skills pay off...

let us just agree to diagree.....

you believe boxers are superior fighters.
I believe MMA has superior fighters.

case closed.

[yankeesgiants]

Re: The producers are blaming boxing for this game failure

"Nose bit off" was meant to be just as ridiculous as the argument, but you obviously miss the point, again and again.

And here's some proof that most MMA fighters are glass-jawed clowns. Hmm, I wonder what 1 Pacman skull-fracturing left hand would do to them?

<IFRAME src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/T14JMqi4qr8" frameBorder=0 width=480 height=390 allowfullscreen></IFRAME>

Better hope those wrestling skills pay off...

Your hero pacman dissagrees with you

http://espn.go.com/blog/mma/post/_/id/311/manny-pacquiao-on-mma

Pacquiao was asked by a fan during an ESPN Sports Nation Chat if he would ever try MMA and his thoughts on the sport, his response:

“It’s too violent for me but it’s a sport that should be recognized. It’s a great sport but not the sport for me.”


Thanks for playing though

On a serious note, Pacquiao gets it. Boxing & MMA need each other. Even Dana White of all people recognize that. Hardline MMA fans need to stop gloating because it can go as fast as it came. Hardline boxing fans need to face facts that boxing has a business model problem that plagues it's future.