Boxing Off-Topic

[aholbert32]

Re: Boxing Off-Topic

FLOYD shocked

"His awkwardness and the southpaw's aboility to throw punches from unusual angles troubled Mayweather for the first 3 rounds"

Thats damn near verbatim to what me and PK said. Thats Mayweather saying that. So do we want to keep going with that "He gave away 3 rounds on purposes" theory?

[ggsimmonds]

Re: Boxing Off-Topic

Toney was in the same shape he has been the last 10-15 yrs and in that time he's been in over 10 12 round decisions.

LOL! So now Floyd wanted to Conor to hit him? Word? So Floyd had his hands down in those first 3 rounds?

Floyd wanted Conor to throw punches. Thats a fact and a decent strategy given that Conor has stamina issues. But making an argument that Floyd was so unafraid of Conor's power that he wanted Conor to connect is ****ing ridiculous. He was strictly defense the first 3 rounds. Now maybe it was all in the strategy. Maybe he was facing a guy with a weird stance, well reported power and punches coming from unorthodox angles that he wasnt used too.

The stats dont back that up either. Conor started landing MORE after the fourth round. So when Conor was at the height of his stamina and punching power....Floyd was at his most defensive. Just because he wasnt shoulder rolling doesnt mean he wasnt being defensive. Thats my point.

Floyd's strategy wouldnt work in MMA because he would have had his ****ing head kicked off or body kicked or leg kicked if he just hung against the ropes using a peak a boo style. He wouldnt have even been completely safe from punches because boxing gloves cover significantly more of the head than MMA gloves.

In the end, this is kind of what I expected from most boxing only fans. Some would give Conor his respect while at the same time acknowledging that Floyd dominated the fight as he should. Others werent going to do it unless Conor KO'd the guy.

Dude I'm not an idiot, it was a poor choice of words and you should have known that. No one wants the other guy to land hits on them. He wanted Conor to throw punches. My bad for phrasing it as I did, but jesus it should have been obvious.

As for what you expected, I've already said he actually impressed me all things considered. I'm just not on his dick like you are. He impressed me with his jab and counter punching, but not his power. Take away him running out of gas and his most likely chance at victory from what I saw was winning by points. That is a little funny considering most people felt that was the least likely outcome.

I dont remember it that way. Conor's rabbit/hammer fists came during clinches. I also recall a number of times in the first or second where Floyd hung on the ropes using a peak a boo defense which is the exact opposite of leaning forward.

I cannot speak on it too much, ask the other guy if what I said was what he was trying to say. But I will say you can do both lean forward and peak a boo on the ropes in a single round. Boxers kind of move around right?

"His awkwardness and the southpaw's aboility to throw punches from unusual angles troubled Mayweather for the first 3 rounds"

Thats damn near verbatim to what me and PK said. Thats Mayweather saying that. So do we want to keep going with that "He gave away 3 rounds on purposes" theory?

Now you are taking one line from an article and running with it.

By the way, Floyd did not say the quoted part. That was the reporter. He took a different quote, "He’s a hell of a fighter standing up, kind of shocked me," and connected the dots and ran with it.

A actual quote is this:
“We had a game plan,” Mayweather said, “and our game plan was to take our time, let him shoot all his heavy shots and keep walking him down, keep walking him down, shoot heavy shots to the body, shoot big shots upstairs and my dad thought it was gonna be a little bit earlier, around the seventh [round] or the sixth. But, you know, it took us a little longer than we expected."

He did give away at least 2 rounds on purpose. I watched his press conference where these quotes come from. His plan was to let Conor punch himself out, then go on the attack. He thought once going on the attack he was going to drop him much quicker than he did.
edit: to clarify, I don't know that he gave away the 3rd, I lean towards saying no to that. And he definitely did not give away any rounds after that.

Settle down grasshopper lol

[pk500]

Re: Boxing Off-Topic

"His awkwardness and the southpaw's aboility to throw punches from unusual angles troubled Mayweather for the first 3 rounds"

Thats damn near verbatim to what me and PK said. Thats Mayweather saying that. So do we want to keep going with that "He gave away 3 rounds on purposes" theory?

Anyone who thinks Mayweather gave away rounds on purpose is nuts. Mayweather wanted McGregor to punch himself out. He wanted time to figure out McGregor's style.

But to say he was willing to lose three consecutive rounds to open the fight is preposterous, especially when Mayweather said after the fight that McGregor's boxing skill was "kind of shocking." Come on: This was the best pure boxer of this generation against a guy with limited boxing experience. Mayweather should have been able to win the first three rounds if he was capable.

Here's what happened: Mayweather underestimated McGregor's boxing skill. Mayweather also respected McGregor's power too much in the first three rounds, which was unfounded as McGregor never hurt Mayweather even with his best shot.

Mayweather's classic shoulder roll and excellent footwork also were missing in the first three rounds, proof that his skills finally are diminishing. He could have used all of those tactics to force McGregor to punch himself out but didn't. Why? Because Mac's skill and style were better than expected and confusing.

That's what caused Mayweather to lose the first three rounds. Once Mayweather figured out McGregor's style and realized his power was overrated, he went on attack in the fourth round. That accelerated McGregor's fatigue, which led to the inevitable end.

But anyone who says Mayweather deliberately lost the first three rounds is wrong.

And I'm a HUGE boxing fanatic and don't like MMA. But I know what I saw Saturday night, not the "MMA and its fighters suck" narrative that I'm supposed to spew as a boxing fan.

[pk500]

Re: Boxing Off-Topic

He did give away at least 2 rounds on purpose. I watched his press conference where these quotes come from. His plan was to let Conor punch himself out, then go on the attack. He thought once going on the attack he was going to drop him much quicker than he did.
edit: to clarify, I don't know that he gave away the 3rd, I lean towards saying no to that. And he definitely did not give away any rounds after that.

Settle down grasshopper lol

Mayweather is a great counterpuncher. If he wanted McGregor to punch himself out, couldn't he have allowed Mac to let his fists fly and then counter the hell out of him?

That never happened in the first two rounds because McGregor's unorthodox style flummoxed Mayweather, because McGregor's jab was surprisingly effective and because Mayweather had too much respect for McGregor's power.

Mayweather's default style is safety first. That was the case in the first three rounds Saturday night, and that caused him to lose those rounds. He didn't give them away.

[aholbert32]

Re: Boxing Off-Topic

Dude I'm not an idiot, it was a poor choice of words and you should have known that. No one wants the other guy to land hits on them. He wanted Conor to throw punches. My bad for phrasing it as I did, but jesus it should have been obvious.

As for what you expected, I've already said he actually impressed me all things considered. I'm just not on his dick like you are. He impressed me with his jab and counter punching, but not his power. Take away him running out of gas and his most likely chance at victory from what I saw was winning by points. That is a little funny considering most people felt that was the least likely outcome.


I cannot speak on it too much, ask the other guy if what I said was what he was trying to say. But I will say you can do both lean forward and peak a boo on the ropes in a single round. Boxers kind of move around right?


Now you are taking one line from an article and running with it.

By the way, Floyd did not say the quoted part. That was the reporter. He took a different quote, "He’s a hell of a fighter standing up, kind of shocked me," and connected the dots and ran with it.

A actual quote is this:
“We had a game plan,” Mayweather said, “and our game plan was to take our time, let him shoot all his heavy shots and keep walking him down, keep walking him down, shoot heavy shots to the body, shoot big shots upstairs and my dad thought it was gonna be a little bit earlier, around the seventh [round] or the sixth. But, you know, it took us a little longer than we expected."

He did give away at least 2 rounds on purpose. I watched his press conference where these quotes come from. His plan was to let Conor punch himself out, then go on the attack. He thought once going on the attack he was going to drop him much quicker than he did.
edit: to clarify, I don't know that he gave away the 3rd, I lean towards saying no to that. And he definitely did not give away any rounds after that.

Settle down grasshopper lol

LOL. See why do I have to be on his dick because I'm thought he did a good job considering the circumstances?

You mad at me because you phrased something wrong? How is that my fault? I dont know you so all I can go off of is what you say here. Say the **** right and there wont be any misunderstandings.

Yeah, you can do both in a round (peak a boo and move forward) but you can also do one more than the other and Floyd was doing the former much more than he was doing the latter.

I'm no grasshopper. I know my ****. LOL. I'm not new to boxing and I'm not new to MMA been watching one for 30 yrs and one for 20.

[ggsimmonds]

Re: Boxing Off-Topic

Anyone who thinks Mayweather gave away rounds on purpose is nuts. Mayweather wanted McGregor to punch himself out. He wanted time to figure out McGregor's style.

The byproduct of his strategy was surrendering 2 rounds. Its not like he and his dad said "our strategy should be to give him the first two rounds." That would be absurd, but they did settle on a strategy that had that result.

But to say he was willing to lose three consecutive rounds to open the fight is preposterous, especially when Mayweather said after the fight that McGregor's boxing skill was "shocking." Come on: This was the best pure boxer of this generation against a guy with limited boxing experience. Mayweather should have been able to win the first three rounds if he was capable.

Mayweather said that he could have outboxed him and won every round on points like he normally does but he felt the fans deserved to see him go for the KO after the Manny fight.

Here's what happened: Mayweather underestimated McGregor's boxing skill, which was enough to carry the first three rounds. Mayweather also respected McGregor's power in the first three rounds, which was unfounded as McGregor never hurt Mayweather even with his best shot.

Those two occurrences caused Mayweather to lose the first three rounds. Once Mayweather figured out McGregor's style and realized his power was overrated, he went on attack in the fourth round. That accelerated McGregor's fatigue, which led to the inevitable end.

But anyone who says Mayweather deliberately lost the first three rounds is wrong.

And I'm a HUGE boxing fanatic and don't like MMA. But I know what I saw Saturday night, not the "MMA and its fighters suck" narrative that I'm supposed to spew as a boxing fan.

You are wrong, plain and simple. Here is what happened according to Floyd's post fight press conference:

Floyd had no desire to have this fight go the distance. His goal was a stoppage.

As such he adopted a strategy for the fight that he felt would best allow for a stoppage. Namely, allowing Conor to tire himself out, then Floyd going on the attack and teeing off on an exhausted fighter.

Floyd acknowledged that it lasted longer than he anticipated. His camp expected the fight to end in the 6th or 7th, but Conor showed better defense than expected.

Now here is what I don't understand. Neither of these scenarios portray one fighter in a better/worse light than the other, so why the argument over it?

[aholbert32]

Re: Boxing Off-Topic

The byproduct of his strategy was surrendering 2 rounds. Its not like he and his dad said "our strategy should be to give him the first two rounds." That would be absurd, but they did settle on a strategy that had that result.


Mayweather said that he could have outboxed him and won every round on points like he normally does but he felt the fans deserved to see him go for the KO after the Manny fight.




You are wrong, plain and simple. Here is what happened according to Floyd's post fight press conference:

Floyd had no desire to have this fight go the distance. His goal was a stoppage.

As such he adopted a strategy for the fight that he felt would best allow for a stoppage. Namely, allowing Conor to tire himself out, then Floyd going on the attack and teeing off on an exhausted fighter.

Floyd acknowledged that it lasted longer than he anticipated. His camp expected the fight to end in the 6th or 7th, but Conor showed better defense than expected.

Now here is what I don't understand. Neither of these scenarios portray one fighter in a better/worse light than the other, so why the argument over it?

Ehhhhh...

One of them portrays Floyd as unconcerned about Conor no matter what he presented.

The other one credits Conor for coming with an awkward style, acknowledges that Floyd had trouble with it for 9 minutes and then adjusted like the all time great he is.

[ggsimmonds]

Re: Boxing Off-Topic

LOL. See why do I have to be on his dick because I'm thought he did a good job considering the circumstances?

That is what gets me. I also think he did a good job considering the circumstances! But you seem to get overly defensive of criticism on Conor. How dare I question his power!

You mad at me because you phrased something wrong? How is that my fault? I dont know you so all I can go off of is what you say here. Say the **** right and there wont be any misunderstandings.

Nah I ain't mad. You just saw "wanting Conor to hit him" and ran with that, disregarding most of what I said. Like claiming Floyd was moving forward just as much in the Berto fight which is pure fiction.

This part of our exchange is about punching power only, so let me repost this:
Let me close on this, forget what he did in mma. Based on the boxing match we saw, Conor's power is very little. He wasn't following through on punches. If your position is that had he followed through his punches they would have power behind them that is fine, but then I don't know why you disagreed with me to begin with.

Yeah, you can do both in a round (peak a boo and move forward) but you can also do one more than the other and Floyd was doing the former much more than he was doing the latter.

Like I said, I can't speak on it to much. I am not trying to carry another guy's torch. What I will say is in response to most rabbit punching coming in the clinch. When do clinches happen? One they get tangled up inside right? Floyd lowering his head led to them getting tangled up quite a bit right? So we are both correct, I say it was when floyd came in with his head low, you say clinching but we are mostly describing the same event. Agreed?

I'm no grasshopper. I know my ****. LOL. I'm not new to boxing and I'm not new to MMA been watching one for 30 yrs and one for 20.

The grasshopper comment was only in regards to how you jumped all over that article.

But again, you go ahead and find that one line to cling to while not acknowledging the bulk of my comments (like maybe Floyd did not say what you think he did? not important huh?)

Mayweather is a great counterpuncher. If he wanted McGregor to punch himself out, couldn't he have allowed Mac to let his fists fly and then counter the hell out of him?

That never happened in the first two rounds because McGregor's unorthodox style flummoxed Mayweather, because McGregor's jab was surprisingly effective and because Mayweather had too much respect for McGregor's power.

Mayweather's default style is safety first. That was the case in the first three rounds Saturday night, and that caused him to lose those rounds. He didn't give them away.

We are not on complete opposite extremes here. I agree that Conor's unorthodox style perplexed Floyd more than usual. I don't know that Floyd would admit it, but I think he would also agree. That is partly why Conor lasted longer than Floyd was expecting.

Floyd always tends to be a conservative in the early rounds of fights, but it was much more pronounced in this match. There is little doubt his opponent was the reason why.

Lets reframe the discussion to see if we can reach agreement. Floyd did not give away the first two rounds, but he was not concerned with winning them. Subtle difference but perhaps a worthwhile distinction?

[bigeastbumrush]

Re: Boxing Off-Topic

I disagree with PK that his style was similar in the Berto fight (I was wrong about the Pac fight). With the exception of a few short stints on the ropes, he didnt use the shoulder roll much. He was actually more active and willing to stay in the middle of the ring. He looked a step slower in my opinion when it came to reaction time.

I question if you even watched the whole fight. First you say he gave away the first 3 rounds but now he was leading "head first" in those rounds? Was he active or not in those rounds? Was he leading or not?

Also I like how you ignored my statement about the 7th round earlier. Plenty of people (including Showtime) gave him that round. Floyd had adjusted and was moving forward that entire round. He threw 50 plus punches....but many had Conor winning that round. So what was the excuse for that round?

Leading head first =/= being active

Floyd gave Conor a target behind his guard so that he would punch himself out. Coupled with the obvious fact that Floyd wasn't swinging back shows that it was a designed strategy, not happenstance.

I didn't even address the 7th round thing because you have me confused with someone who said Conor wouldn't even win a round. I never said that.

"His awkwardness and the southpaw's aboility to throw punches from unusual angles troubled Mayweather for the first 3 rounds"

Thats damn near verbatim to what me and PK said. Thats Mayweather saying that. So do we want to keep going with that "He gave away 3 rounds on purposes" theory?

I knew you would do this

What you quoted was the words of the writer of the article who never stepped foot in the ring. Are we cherrypicking writers now?

This is what Floyd actually said:

“He’s a hell of a fighter standing up, kind of shocked me,” Mayweather admitted during the post-fight press conference.

The writer gave an observance.
The fighter gave a compliment.

Neither had an effect on what transpired in the ring or what the punch stats revealed.

[ggsimmonds]

Re: Boxing Off-Topic

Ehhhhh...

One of them portrays Floyd as unconcerned about Conor no matter what he presented.

The other one credits Conor for coming with an awkward style, acknowledges that Floyd had trouble with it for 9 minutes and then adjusted like the all time great he is.

Fair point, but the synopsis comes from Floyd.

But the other one is still wrong. Guys Floyd explicitly stated what his strategy was. Now not only does that strategy match what we saw, it is a reasonable strategy. (you said that yourself)

Is your position that Floyd lied about his strategy and didn't want to admit that he straight lost rounds to Conor?

[aholbert32]

Re: Boxing Off-Topic

That is what gets me. I also think he did a good job considering the circumstances! But you seem to get overly defensive of criticism on Conor. How dare I question his power!


Nah I ain't mad. You just saw "wanting Conor to hit him" and ran with that, disregarding most of what I said. Like claiming Floyd was moving forward just as much in the Berto fight which is pure fiction.

This part of our exchange is about punching power only, so let me repost this:
Let me close on this, forget what he did in mma. Based on the boxing match we saw, Conor's power is very little. He wasn't following through on punches. If your position is that had he followed through his punches they would have power behind them that is fine, but then I don't know why you disagreed with me to begin with.


Like I said, I can't speak on it to much. I am not trying to carry another guy's torch. What I will say is in response to most rabbit punching coming in the clinch. When do clinches happen? One they get tangled up inside right? Floyd lowering his head led to them getting tangled up quite a bit right? So we are both correct, I say it was when floyd came in with his head low, you say clinching but we are mostly describing the same event. Agreed?


The grasshopper comment was only in regards to how you jumped all over that article.

But again, you go ahead and find that one line to cling to while not acknowledging the bulk of my comments (like maybe Floyd did not say what you think he did? not important huh?)


We are not on complete opposite extremes here. I agree that Conor's unorthodox style perplexed Floyd more than usual. I don't know that Floyd would admit it, but I think he would also agree. That is partly why Conor lasted longer than Floyd was expecting.

Floyd always tends to be a conservative in the early rounds of fights, but it was much more pronounced in this match. There is little doubt his opponent was the reason why.

Lets reframe the discussion to see if we can reach agreement. Floyd did not give away the first two rounds, but he was not concerned with winning them. Subtle difference but perhaps a worthwhile distinction?

Nah. No one is being overly defensive. I just think its silly as **** to discount someone's power based off one fight. Especially when this guy has shown KO power in another sport. I would never say a kickboxer who has 20 KOs from punches in Kickboxing has no power simply because he fought in MMA and didnt hurt or KO his opponent in one fight. If you want to go that route..have at it but I'm going to tell you that you are wrong just like I did.

Again....you wrote it and are upset because I jumped on something YOU wrote. If you didnt mean to say that, cool. But I'm going to respond to what you wrote. Now that you clarified you made a mistake, I'm off that. But YOU made the mistake.

[Jukeman]

Boxing Off-Topic

Floyd (and I quote Conor) "Fought like a Mexican"


As for Conor's power, most of that was showcased against smaller featherweights...Which was not even his natural class.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[ggsimmonds]

Re: Boxing Off-Topic

Nah. No one is being overly defensive. I just think its silly as **** to discount someone's power based off one fight. Especially when this guy has shown KO power in another sport. I would never say a kickboxer who has 20 KOs from punches in Kickboxing has no power simply because he fought in MMA and didnt hurt or KO his opponent in one fight. If you want to go that route..have at it but I'm going to tell you that you are wrong just like I did.

Again....you wrote it and are upset because I jumped on something YOU wrote. If you didnt mean to say that, cool. But I'm going to respond to what you wrote. Now that you clarified you made a mistake, I'm off that. But YOU made the mistake.

KO power in a different sport using 4 ounce gloves.

Reposting my initial comment since it started this exchange:

Conor's hyped punching power. His power was nonexistent. I expected it to a degree, earlier in the thread I pointed out that MMA guys don't hit as hard as boxers, but even I was surprised how slappy many of his shots were. His jab was by far his best punch. I don't think Floyd ever felt threatened by Conor's power

What part of that was wrong? Following your kickboxer example, I never said he would have no power, I would only say he showed no power in that fight.

"But I'm going to respond to what you wrote."
lol, but you are being highly selective of what you respond to.

[aholbert32]

Re: Boxing Off-Topic

Leading head first =/= being active

Floyd gave Conor a target behind his guard so that he would punch himself out. Coupled with the obvious fact that Floyd wasn't swinging back shows that it was a designed strategy, not happenstance.

I didn't even address the 7th round thing because you have me confused with someone who said Conor wouldn't even win a round. I never said that.




I knew you would do this

What you quoted was the words of the writer of the article who never stepped foot in the ring. Are we cherrypicking writers now?

This is what Floyd actually said:


The writer gave an observance.
The fighter gave a compliment.

Neither had an effect on what transpired in the ring or what the punch stats revealed.

But you are someone who said that Floyd gave him the rounds he won because of inactivity and the 7th is arguably a round he won...while Floyd was active.

Man, I dont need to cherrypick writers. I didnt even look for that article. Jaybee posted that here. Goes to show that I'm not the only one that observed him having trouble with Conor's style. With that said, Floyd didnt say it so I concede that point.

[aholbert32]

Re: Boxing Off-Topic

KO power in a different sport using 4 ounce gloves.

Reposting my initial comment since it started this exchange:

Conor's hyped punching power. His power was nonexistent. I expected it to a degree, earlier in the thread I pointed out that MMA guys don't hit as hard as boxers, but even I was surprised how slappy many of his shots were. His jab was by far his best punch. I don't think Floyd ever felt threatened by Conor's power

What part of that was wrong? Following your kickboxer example, I never said he would have no power, I would only say he showed no power in that fight.

"But I'm going to respond to what you wrote."
lol, but you are being highly selective of what you respond to.

Lets not do that. I can go to a few points that I made that you straight up ignored but thats understandable. We are writing alot.

Speaking of that, my response was:

"Floyd Mayweather is perhaps the worst boxer to try to show you hit with power. He's been fought 50 times and has maybe been rocked 4 or 5 times and 3 of those were before he became a defensive master later in his career. Also, Conor landed the straight a number of times and a couple of uppercuts that landed strongly."

Basically I disagreed with you. I dont think it was "nonexistant" and I gave examples where I though Conor showed some power. I also stated that Floyd is EXTREMELY hard to hurt. Later, I stated that Floyd didnt start walking him down until the 4th and that Conor's stamina would likely affect his power. Now if you dont agree that stamina affects someones power, we can agree to disagree.

My point was his power was there but Floyd strategy and skill made it not as effective as it would be.