Boxing Off-Topic

[pk500]

Re: Boxing Off-Topic

i was thinking that too about leonard....lol. i love the guy and he is a legend but i would rather have jones jr. or ward in that spot.

Roy has improved and finally is average. Andre Ward is terrible -- almost as vapid and feckless as Leonard.

Tim Bradley and Paulie Malignaggi are excellent fighters-turned-analysts on ESPN and Showtime, respectively. I also think B-Hop is underrated as hell on the lower-end Golden Boy shows on ESPN. I would love to see B-Hop move with Golden Boy to DAZN. Bank on it, considering he's a part owner of Golden Boy.

There is hope for the disappearance of Sugar Ray. Correct my memory, please, but didn't Haymon hire him for some of the earliest PBC shows on TV? Leonard was just as awful and vanished from PBC telecasts after about six months, if my mind serves me.

Let's hope DAZN follows suit. No one, and I mean NO ONE, tunes in to a fight to listen to Sugar Ray Leonard. He will sell ZERO subscriptions to DAZN, and he's probably costing Eddie Hearn a healthy sum.

[edaddy]

Re: Boxing Off-Topic

Mayweather would destroy Thurman, who isn't that good and is protected by Haymon. Same with Porter, who is just a slightly younger and more fierce version of Marcos Maidana.

Look, I despise Mayweather as a human being. But the dude is the Tom Brady of boxing -- he's ageless. How often did he get hit cleanly in his bouts? Who is the last guy to even buckle him? Shane Mosley in Round 2? Maidana once or twice in their first fight?

You can't measure Mayweather's career mileage by normal standards. He always is in shape. He's still in the gym. He never blew up between fights. I bet he walks around lighter than 160, so he needs to lose 10-12 pounds to make welterweight. Big deal.

Fights against Crawford, Canelo and Spence would be tough for Mayweather, so that's why he'll never take them. But he would be the favorite in all three because Mayweather is the second-best defensive fighter I've seen in my 53 years, behind only Sweet Pea Whitaker.

LOL I hear ya man..I know the last time I saw Mayweather in the ring a amatuer boxer landed 111 shots on him and his accuracy leg and hand speed had diminished..if you want to use the reason that he did in that he wanted to stay in front of him I am.confident he didnt plan for mcgregor to land as many shots..Before that I saw a fighter who went the distance with a faded Berto and who admitted he is no where the fighter he was even two years ago..you combine that with young fast fighters in their prime and your going to see a fighter who people never thought would age.

.Its a fact of the sport I dont care how much he stays in shape your reflexes and speed go from.aging losing muscle fibers and the ability for them to react..thsts physiology my man and it would work for a plodding fighter like george foreman who knew the reality of taking shots as he got older.and relied on power.floyd relies on speed and reflexes..its hard to.see how much he regressed to the average fan but telltale signs like him taking shots in his last 5 fights that wouldnt have come close prior ,resting, staying stationary, and missing shots he connected with ease are little holes that become big holes against a younger skilled fighter


.Canelo has matured and gained experience from that fight..mayweather has added age, inactivity, and diminished reflexes add up that equation..and trust me if tom.brady played a skill position he wouldnt be playing at 40...lol

[JayBee74]

Re: Boxing Off-Topic

Regardless of Lamps' next destination, please, please, PLEASE, DAZN: Get rid of Ray Leonard NOW. Sugar offers absolutely nothing to the telecast than a mastery of the obvious and an unwillingness to have an opinion or insight on anything. He's an empty suit. Horrible.

Didn't see any of the DAZN action over the weekend but Sugar Ray has never been good as an analyst even dating back to his earliest days commenting on Cooney-Norton.

[pietasterp]

Re: Boxing Off-Topic

Caught last three rounds of Andrade, as I also watched ESPN+ card with very fun main event between Brant and Murata, during which tons of leather were traded. Will watch full Andrade fight -- thanks for tip.

Andrade-Canelo is a very good, very real fight now that Canelo is on DAZN. Let's have it in 2019! I'd almost rather see that bout than a third fight with GGG.

Nice to see DAZN sign Buffer and the VERY underrated David Diamante as ring announcers. But yep, Lampley needs to stay in boxing. He's the GOAT of play-by-play ring announcers, and I don't think he's ready to retire, even at age 69.

Brian Kenny is a boxing guy and solid as the lead voice of DAZN. But Lampley would be an upgrade.

Regardless of Lamps' next destination, please, please, PLEASE, DAZN: Get rid of Ray Leonard NOW. Sugar offers absolutely nothing to the telecast than a mastery of the obvious and an unwillingness to have an opinion or insight on anything. He's an empty suit. Horrible.

i was thinking that too about leonard....lol. i love the guy and he is a legend but i would rather have jones jr. or ward in that spot.

Roy has improved and finally is average. Andre Ward is terrible -- almost as vapid and feckless as Leonard.

Tim Bradley and Paulie Malignaggi are excellent fighters-turned-analysts on ESPN and Showtime, respectively. I also think B-Hop is underrated as hell on the lower-end Golden Boy shows on ESPN. I would love to see B-Hop move with Golden Boy to DAZN. Bank on it, considering he's a part owner of Golden Boy.

There is hope for the disappearance of Sugar Ray. Correct my memory, please, but didn't Haymon hire him for some of the earliest PBC shows on TV? Leonard was just as awful and vanished from PBC telecasts after about six months, if my mind serves me.

Let's hope DAZN follows suit. No one, and I mean NO ONE, tunes in to a fight to listen to Sugar Ray Leonard. He will sell ZERO subscriptions to DAZN, and he's probably costing Eddie Hearn a healthy sum.

Good side-topic: announcing/broadcasting teams! Although that's a bit off-topic, isn't it? Oh, wait....

I've sorta made my feelings on Lampley clear prior, so I won't rehash. In short, I don't hate the guy, but I don't particularly like him either, and I don't find him to be an appealing play-by-play fight announcer. He's been doing it a long time and has a familiar voice; that's about as far as it goes for me. In the all-time category, I'd put Barry Tompkins in front of Lampley for sure, and probably Al Albert as well.

As I've mentioned prior, I think Showtime has the best 3-man team in boxing with Mauro Renallo, the always avuncular Al Bernstein (seriously, is there a more likeable guy in broadcasting?), and the (surprisingly) excellent Paulie Malignaggi. I wouldn't replace any guy on that team with anyone else, and they have fun chemistry to boot.

I generally hate Max Kellerman, but as long as he is strictly talking about boxing, I think he's good. I've never cared for Roy Jones although he does occasionally bring interesting fighter-perspective counter-points to Jim and Max. His insights are good, I just don't think they're conveyed all that effectively. Emanuel Steward was great (RIP); HBO never figured out how to properly replace him on their broadcasts.

I think Ray Leonard is universally disliked as an analyst, which is entirely justified. Tim Bradley I would agree is not bad, and I also agree that B-Hop is pretty good as well. I think Antonio Tarver is pretty good as well, although I haven't seen him on a broadcast in a while. And honestly, although I know a lot of people will (probably rightfully) disagree, for entertainment purposes, I like Teddy Atlas doing color. He is knowledgeable and will point out things I don't notice, but his heavy Brooklyn accent and penchant for over-statement and extreme opinions are understandably chafing to some (many, probably). He also strikes me as a bit of an a-hole, which probably doesn't help his cause.

Re: ring announcers, I was wondering why I hadn't seen Michael Buffer on any broadcasts in forever, I guess I know why now. Ring announcers are irrelevant to me unless it's Buffer or the classy Jimmy Lennon, Jr. And even then, it's more the comfort of a familiar face/voice than anything. David Diamante is not bad but his hair is too much of a distraction for me; he looks like he should be fronting a White Zombie cover band or something.

[pk500]

Re: Boxing Off-Topic

Teddy is from Staten Island, not Brooklyn. That mistake could get you shivved in the City!

I never liked Tarver. Thought he was pretty vapid and liked to talk about his career far too much during broadcasts. You don't see Tarver anymore on TV because he was arrested for domestic battery in August for punching his 18-year-old stepson in the face, although I think Showtime was phasing him out for the far-superior Malignaggi by that time.

http://www.tmz.com/2018/08/15/antonio-tarver-arrested-for-domestic-battery/

Malignaggi is the best ex-fighter in the analysis game, and only Tim Bradley and B-Hop are remotely close.

[JayBee74]

Re: Boxing Off-Topic

Malignaggi is the best ex-fighter in the analysis game, and only Tim Bradley and B-Hop are remotely close.

I agree except for Bradley. Ward is very good too (IMO).

[JayBee74]

Re: Boxing Off-Topic

Good side-topic: announcing/broadcasting teams! Although that's a bit off-topic, isn't it? Oh, wait....
I generally hate Max Kellerman, but as long as he is strictly talking about boxing, I think he's good.

I think I'm one of the few OSers that actually like First Take with Stephen A and Kellerman, but Max is opinionated to the point of being obnoxious most of the time unlike his persona when analyzing boxing.

[pk500]

Re: Boxing Off-Topic

I agree except for Bradley. Ward is very good too (IMO).

There's a reason HBO doesn't use Ward for ringside analysis and instead puts him on the host desk -- he's worse than Roy Jones. That's saying something.

DAZN should move Ray Leonard into the Ward role. A handsome retired champ who looks good in front of the camera, smiles and has nothing to say from the host desk -- that's Andre Ward.

To each their own, brother!

[pk500]

Re: Boxing Off-Topic

I think I'm one of the few OSers that actually like First Take with Stephen A and Kellerman, but Max is opinionated to the point of being obnoxious most of the time unlike his persona when analyzing boxing.

Max used to be spectacular on HBO Boxing. Now he's just decent because he's become a complete HBO shill and a servant to the narrative.

HBO has a storytelling narrative before each fight that it rams down the viewers' brain. It's even worse when there's a 24/7 show before the fight. Fighter X will be speedy, Fighter Y will hammer away because of his tough upbringing in the 'hood, etc.

And Max continues to push that narrative even when the results in the ring don't match it. HBO and Max continued to foist the canard that Chocolatito was among the world's best after his loss and that Golovkin hasn't lost any of his power or speed from 2012 during recent bouts featuring both.

It's annoying and insulting to the viewers.

Showtime does a GREAT job at adapting its narrative as events unfold in the ring, probably because Al Bernstein is the best, no-bullsh*t fight analyst alive. And Steve Farhood isn't far behind. Both are better than anyone HBO can offer.

[JayBee74]

Re: Boxing Off-Topic

And Max continues to push that narrative even when the results in the ring don't match it. HBO and Max continued to foist the canard that Chocolatito was among the world's best after his loss and that Golovkin hasn't lost any of his power or speed from 2012 during recent bouts featuring both.

Even after Rungvisai pulverized Chocolatito in the rematch? As to GGG many fans thought that Kellerman was very partial to Canelo.

I remember the entire crew of Lampley, Merchant, and Max loved Pavlik but after Hopkins not so much. Lampley has always been a fanboy of Oscar and Gatti.

To each their own, brother!

Exactly. I could not disagree with you more PK particularly lumping Ray's broadcast skills in with Ward's.

[JayBee74]

Re: Boxing Off-Topic

Derevyanchenko is only a mild underdog against Daniel Jacobs this Saturday night. I wish I had waited to cancel by HBO.

[pietasterp]

Re: Boxing Off-Topic

Derevyanchenko is only a mild underdog against Daniel Jacobs this Saturday night. I wish I had waited to cancel by HBO.

Will be interesting to see the likely 'last ever' boxing show on HBO. They probably won't get too mushy but Lampley will definitely address it.

[pietasterp]

Re: Boxing Off-Topic

Teddy is from Staten Island, not Brooklyn. That mistake could get you shivved in the City!

Ouch. Huge faux pas on my part. I suppose I'm not welcome to wear my "Wu Tang" gear any more... (note: I don't own any Wu Tang gear)

I think I'm one of the few OSers that actually like First Take with Stephen A and Kellerman, but Max is opinionated to the point of being obnoxious most of the time unlike his persona when analyzing boxing.

It's hard to know if that's a show persona or what, but I think Max's decline in boxing analysis seems to coincide with his rise on ESPN. Maybe that's just my imagination, though.

Max used to be spectacular on HBO Boxing. Now he's just decent because he's become a complete HBO shill and a servant to the narrative.

HBO has a storytelling narrative before each fight that it rams down the viewers' brain. It's even worse when there's a 24/7 show before the fight. Fighter X will be speedy, Fighter Y will hammer away because of his tough upbringing in the 'hood, etc.

And Max continues to push that narrative even when the results in the ring don't match it. HBO and Max continued to foist the canard that Chocolatito was among the world's best after his loss and that Golovkin hasn't lost any of his power or speed from 2012 during recent bouts featuring both.

It's annoying and insulting to the viewers.

Showtime does a GREAT job at adapting its narrative as events unfold in the ring, probably because Al Bernstein is the best, no-bullsh*t fight analyst alive. And Steve Farhood isn't far behind. Both are better than anyone HBO can offer.

I completely agree with this entire post. Perfectly encapsulates what I think I've been trying to formalize in my thoughts in prior posts.

I definitely remember when Max used to criticize HBO's coziness with certain promoters, even while on the HBO air. Those days are long gone...

[pk500]

Re: Boxing Off-Topic

Exactly. I could not disagree with you more PK particularly lumping Ray's broadcast skills in with Ward's.

OK, mea culpa time for me. Last night I watched part of the Superfly 3 card from last month on HBO, with Ward handling analysis with Max and Lampley. This was the first time I've heard Ward do ringside analysis instead of being the co-host, and he was solid. MUCH better than Ray Leonard.

I still think Paulie is the gold standard, and I like what Tim Bradley's doing at ESPN. But Ward offered solid insight and analysis on the Superfly 3 card.

Hands up: I was wrong about SOG.

[pietasterp]

Re: Boxing Off-Topic

I was watching a replay of an old "ShoBox: The Next Generation" card last night, and I realized I forgot to mention how excellent Raul "El Diamante" Marquez is as a color guy. Maybe one of the best fighter-turned-analysts out there. He really points out a lot that I'm missing and picks up on a lot of subtleties during a fight. Unfortunately, he mostly does the Spanish-language broadcasts on Showtime, so I rarely get him on any fights I'm watching, but Showtime could easily rotate in (or even go to 4-man on occasion) Marquez for Paulie once in a while for a nice change of pace. Although Paulie is great.

And as pk500 mentioned above, I also neglected to mention how good the veteran Steve Farhood is. Showtime really has an embarrassment of riches in their boxing broadcaster roster right now.