EA UFC Retail Impressions Thread

[Thrash13]

Re: EA UFC Retail Impressions Thread

Thanks for all your impressions aholbert32! This looks like a Black Friday purchase for me after going through this topic. I'm sure my son and I will still have a lot of fun with it, but it doesn't sound worthy of $60. And if they release every other year, then getting it later this year won't be too bad.

[Maverick32093209]

Re: EA UFC Retail Impressions Thread

1. This game EASILY takes the cake for the most whining amongst people who have NOT actually played the game.

2. For me I feel bad for you guys. I love that this is not an unrealistic CAF centric game. Using normal fighters requires high degrees of intelligence and strategy. It a different skill then putting together cheap attributes and cheap move sets. I think this might attract a more competitive spirit in online. Which is my primary focus. Most sports games are like that.

btw...anyone remember the last good/competitive fighting game that had CAFs (don't say MK cuz I will laugh you out of town). Does anyone remember the last online sports title that did? And the ones that did...who made more than 10 athletes...does anyone make 10 different RTTS players.

3. Before we ask for a patch...we should just play it first and learn the nuances of the game.

[GameplayDevUFC]

Re: EA UFC Retail Impressions Thread

+ Striking: This is the most fun I've ever had striking in a UFC game. I really feel like the jab is actually effective in this game. Not as effective as it should be (I cant use it solely to keep an agressive fighter off of me) but still good.

I really dont see the AI using crazy strikes that often. I played 20 plus fights yesterday and the craziest punch I saw thrown by the AI was a superman punch.

Really glad to hear this is your impression of the game. It's exactly the same way I feel.

+ Grappling: I actually prefer this Grappling system to any other I've played. You have to actively defend. You cant just hold a button and transition block. You have to see what side a fighter is using to escape and actively block that escape. Same goes for the submissions. I fought Rousey twice and she locked in armbar 3 times. I escaped once and each time it felt like I was working hard to escape.

Again, I agree and I think the more time people put into the game the more they will appreciate it.

- Reversals: Way too many. Part of it is I'm ****ty at reading which side the reversal is going to so I can block it. There are still too many imo. As I get better at grappling hopefully this will go down.

We got this same feedback during internal testing and made the sweeps from guard, full mount and side control twice as easy to defend. It's possible we could have done more, but like you say I'm hoping a little practice will help people shut down the sweeps when warranted.

- MMAi and the AI: Ok so MMAi is in the game....its just not what we thought it was:

Lets take Maia for example. When I fought him, his game plan initially was to take me down and I stopped 3 takedowns in the first round. So he adjusted and decided to strike with me. The problem was I was Robbie Lawler and there is no way Maia would choose to kickbox with Lawler. In real life, he would just try to clinch or attempt more takedowns.

MMAi is not fighters fighting like their real life counterparts. Machida doesnt hang back and counter strike. He only does that if you are being extra aggressive. Rousey clinches a ton but doesnt attempt many throws and tries to get you to the ground with takedowns.

I appreciate the feedback. As you say, what was advertised is there. I've seen it working, and like you said the I does change strategies. I think there's a balance that needs to be struck between being a competitive AI within the mechanics of the game, and being a realistic representation of the real life fighter. Those may not always mesh, and the aggressiveness may fall into that category.

I will try and get a better understanding of some of the ins and out of the AI implementation (I only know it at a high level) and see if I can help you guys formulate some feedback that may make a difference.

So far my take aways are the AI is too aggressive, and that may be a function of stamina tuning and not an AI problem at all. I'd like to get some better take aways than that.

- Aggressiveness - If the demo is aggressiveness at a 10...the retail game is aggressiveness at a 7-8. Its hit or miss. Guys like Machida/Saffedine/Swanson were very aggressive from the first round. But when I fought Ian McCall and Rousey it seemed way more realistic. Especially McCall who used his movement and was truly counter striking.

I can't disagree here, and like I said above I'd like to dive into this more.

GAMEPLAYDEVUFC, All we are asking for is variety and some intelligence from the AI. I know a ton of causal fans love to just strike and do rock and sock em robots all day...give them online and the lower difficulties. The hard core fans just want the normal and higher difficulties. I want Machida to fight smart and sit back. I know some may call it boring but let me tell you...you will have an army of loyal customers if you make the AI more like their real life counterparts.

I hear you. I'm an old school gamer myself and mostly play games offline, and rely on good levels, AI and story to keep me engaged. I understand the experience you want. I haven't played through career yet as I wanted to do it from the comfort of my own couch at home. I'll be experiencing a lot of this at the same time you guys are, and I'll be in here to see how your experience matches with mine.

+Fighting stances and taunts - They stole this from FNC but I love it. They have a ton of different stances in this game and if you dont move the fighters will dance in place and sometimes taunt. The stances were right on.

I can't tell you how happy I am this made it to your list of +'ves. I spent a lot of time working on this system, and I can tell you it's miles ahead of anything Fight Night had. This is one of those things that couldn't have been done on 360/ps3 and it impacts everything from locomotion to striking to lunges. I could go on for hours about this, I'm just happy to hear the work wasn't lost on you.

Thats all for now. I may have more later.

Thanks, looking forward to it.

[belikemike]

Re: EA UFC Retail Impressions Thread

Damn you EA for turning my favorite sport into rock'em sock'em robots and calling it a MMA game.

Thats exactly what I was thinking as well. So disappointed in what they have done. Its a disgrace to MMA.

[The JareBear]

Re: EA UFC Retail Impressions Thread

1. This game EASILY takes the cake for the most whining amongst people who have NOT actually played the game.

2. For me I feel bad for you guys. I love that this is not an unrealistic CAF centric game. Using normal fighters requires high degrees of intelligence and strategy. It a different skill then putting together cheap attributes and cheap move sets. I think this might attract a more competitive spirit in online. Which is my primary focus. Most sports games are like that.

btw...anyone remember the last good/competitive fighting game that had CAFs (don't say MK cuz I will laugh you out of town). Does anyone remember the last online sports title that did? And the ones that did...who made more than 10 athletes...does anyone make 10 different RTTS players.

3. Before we ask for a patch...we should just play it first and learn the nuances of the game.

Nah man, wrong or right, Madden still is the king in that department.

I really wish you would stop labeling people who use CAFs as cheap. Not everyone is just max'd out stat guy. Lot of us create realistic CAFs, even more realistic than the game has them at default.

[The JareBear]

Re: EA UFC Retail Impressions Thread

I appreciate the feedback. As you say, what was advertised is there. I've seen it working, and like you said the I does change strategies. I think there's a balance that needs to be struck between being a competitive AI within the mechanics of the game, and being a realistic representation of the real life fighter. Those may not always mesh, and the aggressiveness may fall into that category.

I find this hard to accept. If it is that hard to mesh together, can you guys look into a "Simulation" mode for those of us that want realistic, strategic, varied styles of fights?

[GameplayDevUFC]

Re: EA UFC Retail Impressions Thread

Thats exactly what I was thinking as well. So disappointed in what they have done. Its a disgrace to MMA.

I can understand why you feel this way. Just to give you some perspective on the other side of the argument, consider the following. It really hit home for me yesterday.

Condit and Thompson were playing the game for the first time. Condit I believe proclaimed himself a gamer, Thompson was not.

Not knowing the controls, they both mashed the face buttons and had a fun initial experience. Thompson ended up winning, and Condit immediately wanted a rematch. This went on literally for hours.

By the end of their play sessions, with some tips from guys who knew the game, they were playing a much more strategic game but still having fun doing so.

Now consider the casual fan who picks up the game. They can have immediate success and fun against their casual friend, but have an incentive to learn the game.

Once they learn the game, they start playing true to the sport, and maybe start to understand and appreciate the sport in a different way. Maybe. That's what I hope for anyway.

Now if they didn't have that initial fun experience, and that initial success, but were rather frustrated, they wouldn't make it to the point where they reach that level of appreciation and understanding of the sport. They would give up and move on to something else.

In that sense I think the game does a service to the sport.

People who understand the sport can get something out of it when they take the time to learn the game, and casuals will come to learn the sport as they improve at the game.

I'm not saying the game is perfect, but there's a reason behind a lot of the design decisions, the layering of depth. And a lot of that has the side effect of bringing more people to a place where they cheer when the fight is on the ground and not boo.

Just my 2 cents.

[Gotmadskillzson]

Re: EA UFC Retail Impressions Thread

1. This game EASILY takes the cake for the most whining amongst people who have NOT actually played the game.

2. For me I feel bad for you guys. I love that this is not an unrealistic CAF centric game. Using normal fighters requires high degrees of intelligence and strategy. It a different skill then putting together cheap attributes and cheap move sets. I think this might attract a more competitive spirit in online. Which is my primary focus. Most sports games are like that.

btw...anyone remember the last good/competitive fighting game that had CAFs (don't say MK cuz I will laugh you out of town). Does anyone remember the last online sports title that did? And the ones that did...who made more than 10 athletes...does anyone make 10 different RTTS players.

3. Before we ask for a patch...we should just play it first and learn the nuances of the game.

You do realize people recreate players in every sports game right ?

1. Look at NBA 2K, the demand for historic players were so great 2K themselves put in old school teams and even Euro teams. And this year they even expanding the Euro teams. But before that, you had members on OS for years who recreated 1980s and 1990s teams.

2. Look at College Hoops 2K8, same thing happened with that game, people recreated historical teams from the 1980s.

3. Look at Madden for the past 4 years. People on OS have recreated classic teams from the 1970s, 1980s and 1990s. People did the same thing with the NCAA Football series.

4. Look at MLB The Show, people are recreating classic rosters from the past.

So CAFS is and always have been HUGE for sports games. You keep on spouting your mouth about being competitive using default fighters. It takes no skill to win online in any sports game.

There is a reason why in every sports game, you see people automatically pick the highest rated team. In FIFA, it is Barcelona, in Madden it is 49ers and Seahawks, in NBA 2K it is the Heat and Thunder, in NCAA it was Alabama and Oregon.

In the UFC games in the past it was always GSP, Brock Lesnar. So instead of you feeling bad for us, we shall all feel bad for you thinking the way you do.

[GameplayDevUFC]

Re: EA UFC Retail Impressions Thread

I find this hard to accept. If it is that hard to mesh together, can you guys look into a "Simulation" mode for those of us that want realistic, strategic, varied styles of fights?

I'm not trying to use it as an excuse, just trying to help people understand why it is the way it is. Nothing about building an AI for a sports game is easy, be it arcade or sim focused.

And to your question, unfortunately I can't talk about future plans for the product at this time. Sorry.

[Phobia]

Re: EA UFC Retail Impressions Thread

I can understand why you feel this way. Just to give you some perspective on the other side of the argument, consider the following. It really hit home for me yesterday.

Condit and Thompson were playing the game for the first time. Condit I believe proclaimed himself a gamer, Thompson was not.

Not knowing the controls, they both mashed the face buttons and had a fun initial experience. Thompson ended up winning, and Condit immediately wanted a rematch. This went on literally for hours.

By the end of their play sessions, with some tips from guys who knew the game, they were playing a much more strategic game but still having fun doing so.

Now consider the casual fan who picks up the game. They can have immediate success and fun against their casual friend, but have an incentive to learn the game.

Once they learn the game, they start playing true to the sport, and maybe start to understand and appreciate the sport in a different way. Maybe. That's what I hope for anyway.

Now if they didn't have that initial fun experience, and that initial success, but were rather frustrated, they wouldn't make it to the point where they reach that level of appreciation and understanding of the sport. They would give up and move on to something else.

In that sense I think the game does a service to the sport.

People who understand the sport can get something out of it when they take the time to learn the game, and casuals will come to learn the sport as they improve at the game.

I'm not saying the game is perfect, but there's a reason behind a lot of the design decisions, the layering of depth. And a lot of that has the side effect of bringing more people to a place where they cheer when the fight is on the ground and not boo.

Just my 2 cents.

Here lies the issue, it is predominantly catered to the "casual" fan. Which is fine, but why is there not means of adjusting via sliders or stats for us hard core "simulation/realism" guys to adjust the game to our preference?

So my point is a little extra labor brings more love instead of excluding a huge party of the sport.

[The JareBear]

Re: EA UFC Retail Impressions Thread

I can understand why you feel this way. Just to give you some perspective on the other side of the argument, consider the following. It really hit home for me yesterday.

Condit and Thompson were playing the game for the first time. Condit I believe proclaimed himself a gamer, Thompson was not.

Not knowing the controls, they both mashed the face buttons and had a fun initial experience. Thompson ended up winning, and Condit immediately wanted a rematch. This went on literally for hours.

By the end of their play sessions, with some tips from guys who knew the game, they were playing a much more strategic game but still having fun doing so.

Now consider the casual fan who picks up the game. They can have immediate success and fun against their casual friend, but have an incentive to learn the game.

Once they learn the game, they start playing true to the sport, and maybe start to understand and appreciate the sport in a different way. Maybe. That's what I hope for anyway.

Now if they didn't have that initial fun experience, and that initial success, but were rather frustrated, they wouldn't make it to the point where they reach that level of appreciation and understanding of the sport. They would give up and move on to something else.

In that sense I think the game does a service to the sport.

People who understand the sport can get something out of it when they take the time to learn the game, and casuals will come to learn the sport as they improve at the game.

I'm not saying the game is perfect, but there's a reason behind a lot of the design decisions, the layering of depth. And a lot of that has the side effect of bringing more people to a place where they cheer when the fight is on the ground and not boo.

Just my 2 cents.

I really think you guys have done a good job laying a foundation as far as the gameplay mechanics and controls. They are in depth and specific. If you know the controls you can formulate a gameplan and fight very realistically and strategically. I am sure user matches will be fantastic between those who know what they are doing.

The main issue is how the A.I. fights, it just needs work. I don't think anyone doubts two users can have very sim matches. A lot of us are the type that play 20+ seasons in Dynasty mode of NCAA or Franchise mode in Madden all year. It is hard to have a deep, rewarding offline experience without competent and realistic A.I.

I appreciate your time. I think it is great you are communicating with us when, really, you don't have to.

[vpizzle28]

Re: EA UFC Retail Impressions Thread

I can understand why you feel this way. Just to give you some perspective on the other side of the argument, consider the following. It really hit home for me yesterday.

Condit and Thompson were playing the game for the first time. Condit I believe proclaimed himself a gamer, Thompson was not.

Not knowing the controls, they both mashed the face buttons and had a fun initial experience. Thompson ended up winning, and Condit immediately wanted a rematch. This went on literally for hours.

By the end of their play sessions, with some tips from guys who knew the game, they were playing a much more strategic game but still having fun doing so.

Now consider the casual fan who picks up the game. They can have immediate success and fun against their casual friend, but have an incentive to learn the game.

Once they learn the game, they start playing true to the sport, and maybe start to understand and appreciate the sport in a different way. Maybe. That's what I hope for anyway.

Now if they didn't have that initial fun experience, and that initial success, but were rather frustrated, they wouldn't make it to the point where they reach that level of appreciation and understanding of the sport. They would give up and move on to something else.

In that sense I think the game does a service to the sport.

People who understand the sport can get something out of it when they take the time to learn the game, and casuals will come to learn the sport as they improve at the game.

I'm not saying the game is perfect, but there's a reason behind a lot of the design decisions, the layering of depth. And a lot of that has the side effect of bringing more people to a place where they cheer when the fight is on the ground and not boo.

Just my 2 cents.

This was me for UFC 2009. At the time, I had maybe watched 2 fights total on live TV. I didn't even know who Forrest was! LOL. After getting whooped by my manager who loved the UFC, I learned the game and now I am a huge UFC nut. So I get what you are saying. There has to be a balance. If it's to sim, then the casual fan will not buy it, if it's to arcade, then the sim fan will not buy it.

I do agree with adding sliders however. That would make the SIM guys really happy.

Thanks BTW for being so open and honest!

[Maverick32093209]

Re: EA UFC Retail Impressions Thread

@GameplayDev

1. Thanks for being on here
2. I wouldn't even take these dudes serious until the game ACTUALLY comes out
3. I totally get what you guys are trying to do. On some many levels it reflects REAL fighting.
4. My complaints about the demo are subtle. In short based on the demo this was a great job for the first time out (assuming online works).
5. There is definitely a direction to go ( some additional positions and variation on the grappling tree). Striking I think you guys did a great job.
6. Stamina...system seems pretty good based on the demo. MOST MMA athletes can actually go a full 3 rounds. The game ABSOLUTELY punishes you for trying to be too aggressive.
7. Sliders is a great idea...it will shut up most of these peeps in regards to stamina

[reptilexcq]

Re: EA UFC Retail Impressions Thread

So CAFS is and always have been HUGE for sports games. You keep on spouting your mouth about being competitive using default fighters. It takes no skill to win online in any sports game.

There is a reason why in every sports game, you see people automatically pick the highest rated team. In FIFA, it is Barcelona, in Madden it is 49ers and Seahawks, in NBA 2K it is the Heat and Thunder, in NCAA it was Alabama and Oregon.

In the UFC games in the past it was always GSP, Brock Lesnar. So instead of you feeling bad for us, we shall all feel bad for you thinking the way you do.

CAFs has always been a HUGE part of sports game? lol. Pleaaasee..no they're not. The only people that care is the people that want their character to look, act and behave like they do in real life and then fantasizing about using them. It is the same people that can't stand playing competitive games online because certain individuals are not playing the way they want or playing and controlling the character that isn't representative truth to their real life counterpart. So they ended up quitting and go back playing their supposed fantasized career mode where they want to play with characters that play like their real life counterparts. But there is no better SIMULATION than playing real people online...that is the ULTIMATE SIM because nobody is playing the game the same way. So for you to say there is no skills involved in online is ludicrous. As I said before, AI simulation will never match human intelligent and AI is predictable. I get that there are two type of gamers. One that wants to simulate gameplay based on real life characters and then there are those that one the ULTIMATE sim...which is ONLINE gaming. People that favor online gaming are the competitive type. I gather that you're not one of those. You prefer predictable game simulation based on real life which is NOT competitive and required less skills.

[The JareBear]

Re: EA UFC Retail Impressions Thread

@GameplayDev

1. Thanks for being on here
2. I wouldn't even take these dudes serious until the game ACTUALLY comes out
3. I totally get what you guys are trying to do. On some many levels it reflects REAL fighting.
4. My complaints about the demo are subtle. In short based on the demo this was a great job for the first time out (assuming online works).
5. There is definitely a direction to go ( some additional positions and variation on the grappling tree). Striking I think you guys did a great job.
6. Stamina...system seems pretty good based on the demo. MOST MMA athletes can actually go a full 3 rounds. The game ABSOLUTELY punishes you for trying to be too aggressive.
7. Sliders is a great idea...it will shut up most of these peeps in regards to stamina

So, should you not be taken seriously until the game ACTUALLY comes out too? Just wondering if this works both ways...

Wow