Head Movement: Final Boss Thread

[AeroZeppelin27]

Re: Head Movement: Final Boss Thread

Right, the baiting was a big part of how I played FNC... just putting my head at weird angles to see if people would bite and throw... or hanging my head off to a side, throwing a couple feeler jabs, and then slipping to another direction whenever the opponent tried to counter. Maybe pulling back just a little bit and throwing shots and then pulling completely back when the opponent fired back for real to screw with their sense of distance.

All these little nuances that come naturally as you play FNC.... all these things that feel so natural you don't even think about them, are gone in UFC3.

I think it's hard for Solid_Altair to appreciate subtleties like this because he didn't play FNC in its heyday. I picked the game up on midnight launch and played it for the better part of 3-4 years and at certain points was ranked in the top 200 players online. But I think these subtleties are easy to dismiss if you didn't experience them firsthand, and it's easy to point at the flaws and inconsistencies of the physics-based system and just say "Look, we have it better now. Everything is 100% consistent and fair."

While it's hard to argue that more consistency isn't better, I don't think the current system is a straight upgrade from FNC's head movement system. It's like a sidegrade. Each system had pros and cons. I would've preferred FNC's physics based approach, tuned more carefully for balance, and tuned for consistency, while also allowing us to do it while moving.

Instead we got a completely rebuilt system that threw the FNC system out the back door, and while the current system is good and has its own unique merits, I don't feel it fills the void left by FNC's system.

You've perfectly articulated the points I've tried to make about how FNC's system worked, felt, and the benefits of it over the current system. Seriously, thank you.

This is spot on. Spot on.

[Phillyboi207]

Re: Head Movement: Final Boss Thread

Not its meta.

When it comes to coaxing the opponent into doing or not doing specific things, there is much more variety and specificity in UFC 3.

The extra degrees (360) in FNC give the impression that there is much more going on in the meta than there actually is.

What???

You definitely have to explain that one because it makes 0 sense.

[Phillyboi207]

Re: Head Movement: Final Boss Thread

How would you argue to GPD that an 8-way system gives users more functionality than they currently have with the 4-way system? I very much like the idea of an 8-way discrete system as a compromise if 360 degrees can't be done, but I think GPD might argue (and Solid_Altair also) that the current 4-way system provides the same functionality as an 8 way system, but just doesn't "feel" quite as fluid. I think they'd argue that you'd only be getting an aesthetic boost that wouldn't actually affect gameplay. I don't fully agree with that, but I'm posing the counter-arguments to you so that you can address them. GPD is a reasonable guy, he just wants to understand how an 8 way or 360 system provides concrete gameplay value that the current system doesn't.

One example I gave privately is that if I'm crouching and a fighter throws a knee or an uppercut at me in UFC3, I'm as good as dead. But in real life, I'd be able to pivot my head to the left or right, WHILE retaining my crouch, and then spring forward from the crouch for a powerful counter.

In UFC3, something like this is totally impossible. You'd have to cancel your crouch and swing your head fully to the left or right, opening you up to an uppercut/hook combo. If we could retain the crouch we'd be able to dodge the linear strike and the rounded strike.

But I think there are more gameplay scenarios like this I'm not thinking of.

I think we could start with this video

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=IeTgrmLUJuU

Giving us 8 directions allows for smaller slips inbetween the larger ones and would allow for more fluid chaining of slips which is crucial when dodging combos. For specific stuff the jab-cross spam would be much easier to deal with if we could simply move our head off the centerline slightly and allow smaller recovery/start up frames for smaller movement.

It also allows us to disguise slip patterns better. We can bait/punish specific strikes easier if we could go all the way left but then chain it to a left/back diagonal angle allowing an extra second to counter.

It would work almost the same as now but more fluid chaining, more angles to slip from, and hopefully be much responsive if smaller slips have less start up

[Haz____]

Re: Head Movement: Final Boss Thread

Well what exactly then?

Stationary, fluid, & smooth, 360° realistic head movement.

Not its meta.

When it comes to coaxing the opponent into doing or not doing specific things, there is much more variety and specificity in UFC 3.

The extra degrees (360) in FNC give the impression that there is much more going on in the meta than there actually is.

What are you even talking about man......

The incredible complexity and nuance of the FNC system has been simplified into guessing what your opponent is gonna do and flicking up or down. That's just not how headmovement works IRL, and is so much more simplified than what you can do in FNC, and even what you can do with the UFC 2 stationary head movement. You've taken ~unlimited variables and reduced them into Rock. Paper. or Scissors.

It also allows us to disguise slip patterns better. We can bait/punish specific strikes easier if we could go all the way left but then chain it to a left/back diagonal angle allowing an extra second to counter.

It would work almost the same as now but more fluid chaining, more angles to slip from, and hopefully be much responsive if smaller slips have less start up

I do this alll the time in UFC 2. In my Head movement guide I call this technique, the "Lean Rock". And you can slip so many strikes by subtley changing the angle of a lead lean.



---------------------------------------------------------------------

Can I do this in EA UFC 3? ;Utilizing frames/modes to slip 5 punches in a row.

<iframe width="560" height="315" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/1VsgQKJkf54" frameborder="0" gesture="media" allow="encrypted-media" allowfullscreen></iframe>

No. You can't do this in EA UFC 3.

[MartialMind]

Re: Head Movement: Final Boss Thread

Can I do this in EA UFC 3?

<iframe width="560" height="315" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/1VsgQKJkf54" frameborder="0" gesture="media" allow="encrypted-media" allowfullscreen></iframe>

Yes. You CAN do that in UFC 3.

[Haz____]

Re: Head Movement: Final Boss Thread

Yes. You CAN do that in UFC 3.

No you can't.

Not with any fighters in the beta you couldn't.

You don't move fluidly enough to do this. The animation just delayed jerks from 1 point of angle to the next with no fluidity or smoothness.

I literally wrote the guide on head movement in UFC 2. I know the movements, the patterns, the frames like the back of my hand. Guys who are waaaay better than me can attest to just how friggin hard it is to connect cleanly on me in that game.

All I should have to do is move my knowledge of patterns and movement from the left stick to the right. But when I do the same exact motions in UFC 3, it doesn't work.

It can't be done in UFC 3.

[Phillyboi207]

Re: Head Movement: Final Boss Thread

Regarding moving the stick 30% vs going 100% whilst keeping the analogue 1 / 0 system as opposed to a 360 volleyball system:



Final point, going into the coloured / safe zones makes your counters deliver with damage whereas staying in the centre zone keeps them regular.

Where the colour starts, your 1 / 0 system kicks in.

Not sure if this is a good solution but it could very well be an improvement in terms of giving us more control.

Also, really struggling to remember if we are forced to go through centre line when switching so can't answer your question Solid. I do recall being annoyed that punches force your head back to centre though.

If we go with the 4 direction system, the amount we move the stick should correspond to how far our character's head moves, a quick flick should be a 100% movement to the edge of that character's head zone so a slip.

Can we have GPD see this please???(Posting again because I think we all can agree this is much better than the current system)

I think this is a very fair compromise. It’s still more movement and control but isnt changed drastically. Also need to remove when punches knock you back to centerline. If you get staggered sure but if you roll with /away from a punch you should be able to still use head movement.

To compensate for the buff to head movement just make it so that you’re at a huge disadvantage in terms of GA. Also chaining sways should take some long term stamina (head movement rating would dictate how quickly stamina depletes)

Anyone disagree with this?

[aholbert32]

Re: Head Movement: Final Boss Thread

The devs say it can be done and they are playing the final game so I'll go with their word right now. Well see when the game is released.

I dont know if I would describe that clip as "fluid or smooth" but I wouldnt describe the head movement in 3 as that either.

[Solid_Altair]

Re: Head Movement: Final Boss Thread

Yes, on paper. But no, not really.

Yes, since specific leans avoid specific punches, doing a certain lean over and over again invites your opponent to throw the type of strike that would beat said lean. That type of baiting doesn't exist in FNC because it's not a rock-paper-scissors system.

But no, it's not even remotely close to FNC because you cannot lean into angles that threaten specific punches. You can't lean forward to throw off your opponents distance gauging. You can't drop your guard and slowly move your head inviting offense, then dodge on reaction and counter. You also can't corner yourself and invite your opponent to gas himself out while you turtle up with head-movement while blocking and plenty more.

For the nth time, head-movement is significantly more nuanced than UFC3s variant. It's not bad, just incomplete.



I'm sorry, but you don't know what you're talking about.

1- Would you prefer if the ducking in the game looked like putting the head forward?

2- Would you prefer if we could block while slipping in UFC 3? (I'm on the fence about this, myself.)

These are the only things actually missing in UFC 3, from the stuff you've mentioned. They're not eve close to providing as much meta complexity as the stuff we have in UFC 3.

[DaisukEasy]

Re: Head Movement: Final Boss Thread

You leaned back on his uppercut, leaned left, right and back on straights in a rhythmic fashion and then countered. Pretty sure that's possible in UFC3 Haz..

The timing of your inputs would just feel off because it's not as responsive. But technically you could produce the exact same visual with preemptive rather than reactive inputs.

[Solid_Altair]

Re: Head Movement: Final Boss Thread

You leaned back on his uppercut, leaned left, right and back on straights in a rhythmic fashion and then countered. Pretty sure that's possible in UFC3 Haz..

The timing of your inputs would just feel off because it's not as responsive. But technically you could produce the exact same visual with preemptive rather than reactive inputs.

And the directions would have to be correct.

[MartialMind]

Re: Head Movement: Final Boss Thread

You leaned back on his uppercut, leaned left, right and back on straights in a rhythmic fashion and then countered. Pretty sure that's possible in UFC3 Haz..

The timing of your inputs would just feel off because it's not as responsive. But technically you could produce the exact same visual with preemptive rather than reactive inputs.

I'd argue strongly that those slips he posted from UFC2 were also preemptive and not reactive.... Just far easier to pull off something like that in UFC2 than in UFC3, and i'm perfectly fine with that.

[Phillyboi207]

Re: Head Movement: Final Boss Thread

I'd argue strongly that those slips he posted from UFC2 were also preemptive and not reactive.... Just far easier to pull off something like that in UFC2 than in UFC3, and i'm perfectly fine with that.

I’d love to hear that argument.

How can you predict mid combo?

It’s a combination of both. Right now we can only predict

[RetractedMonkey]

Re: Head Movement: Final Boss Thread

I'd argue strongly that those slips he posted from UFC2 were also preemptive and not reactive.... Just far easier to pull off something like that in UFC2 than in UFC3, and i'm perfectly fine with that.

They are preemptive. He said so himself in another topic that he has premade patterns for headmovement.

You can absolutely do that same slipping motion in UFC 3, effectively that is. No, it doesn't look the same and it doesn't play off the exact same mechanics, but you can slip 5 punches in a row while stationary.

[sumera]

Re: Head Movement: Final Boss Thread

Very wonderful forum.