Is ranked still gonna be blind pick?

[Solid_Altair]

Re: Is ranked still gonna be blind pick?

That's a false dichotomy.

What is the third way?

[RetractedMonkey]

Re: Is ranked still gonna be blind pick?

What is the third way?

Quitting out.

[Solid_Altair]

Re: Is ranked still gonna be blind pick?

Quitting out.

Are you serious?

[RetractedMonkey]

Re: Is ranked still gonna be blind pick?

Are you serious?

Yes. If you don't want to mirror match and the person is not switching fighters, you have the option to quit out and find someone who will.

If it counts as a loss to quit out, you don't have a choice. In that case, yes, you're technically right that you're "willing" to mirror match.

[DaisukEasy]

Re: Is ranked still gonna be blind pick?

Are you serious?

Yes, but not really my point.

Anyway,

Player A

Loves playing DC 9/10
Hates mirror matches 10/10

Player B
Loves playing DC 10/10
Hates mirror matches 9/10

They both hate mirror matches and both love playing DC and wouldn't want to switch, yet in this scenario, player B wins the zero-sum game.

[Evil97]

Re: Is ranked still gonna be blind pick?

Yes, but not really my point.

Anyway,

Player A

Loves playing DC 9/10
Hates mirror matches 10/10

Player B
Loves playing DC 10/10
Hates mirror matches 9/10

They both hate mirror matches and both love playing DC and wouldn't want to switch, yet in this scenario, player B wins the zero-sum game.

Not if Player A picks Jones, Gus, etc.

[DaisukEasy]

Re: Is ranked still gonna be blind pick?

Not if Player A picks Jones, Gus, etc.

[Supreme_Bananas]

Re: Is ranked still gonna be blind pick?

It flies over my head too, because I don't understand what you're trying to say. What does player B winning the zero-sum game mean in this case?

[DaisukEasy]

Re: Is ranked still gonna be blind pick?

It flies over my head too, because I don't understand what you're trying to say. What does player B winning the zero-sum game mean in this case?

Altair was saying that you're either willing to switch or willing to mirror match. I said that's a false dichotomy and my example as well as RetractedMonkey's comment show why.

Quitting or waiting for your opponent to switch are options if you're neither willing to switch or play mirrors.


Anyway, can one of you lay out step by step how this double confirmation is supposed to work? I somewhat of an idea and have plenty arguments against it, but I'd like to avoid arguing against a straw man.

[Supreme_Bananas]

Re: Is ranked still gonna be blind pick?

Quitting or waiting for your opponent to switch are options if you're neither willing to switch or play mirrors.

In most fighting games with double pick, quitting out during character selection gives you an automatic loss, and if your opponent isn't willing to switch either until the timer runs out the game will make you fight a mirror match anyway. Neither of those are real options if you ask me, so there is no false dichotomy as far as I'm concerned.

Anyway, can one of you lay out step by step how this double confirmation is supposed to work? I somewhat of an idea and have plenty arguments against it, but I'd like to avoid arguing against a straw man.

As an example, Fight Night Champion had only single confirmation: as soon as both players picked a fighter, the fight would start immediately.

For reasons I can't fathom, the developers made the extremely overpowered Finall Boss of the story mode, Isaac Frost, a playable character in online ranked.

As a result, something called "Ninja Picking" developed. One player would hover over a non-overpowered character, wait for the other to pick a fighter, and then quickly switch Frost before the other player could cancel his selection, resulting in an extremely unfair matchup. It would be like hovering over Sam Alvey in MW, waiting for your opponent to pick Marquardt, then quickly switch to Weidman and starting the match before your opponent could switch.

With double confirmation like in EA UFC2, you would automatically unready if your opponent switched selection, making this tactic impossible. As the name implies, double confirmation means the players need to select a character, then confirm again that this is really the character they want.

[DaisukEasy]

Re: Is ranked still gonna be blind pick?

In most fighting games with double pick, quitting out during character selection gives you an automatic loss, and if your opponent isn't willing to switch either until the timer runs out the game will make you fight a mirror match anyway. Neither of those are real options if you ask me, so there is no false dichotomy as far as I'm concerned.

You don't actually lose if you quit during character select. So waiting until the timer runs out, hoping your opponent switches so you gain the upper hand and then leaving before the time runs out is a viable third option.

So again, it's a false dichotomy.

With double confirmation like in EA UFC2, you would automatically unready if your opponent switched selection, making this tactic impossible. As the name implies, double confirmation means the players need to select a character, then confirm again that this is really the character they want.

That's what I thought. This doesn't at all address let alone solve the issue of both players repeatedly trying to counter-pick each other to gain an advantage until the timer runs out.

[Evil97]

Re: Is ranked still gonna be blind pick?

You don't actually lose if you quit during character select. So waiting until the timer runs out, hoping your opponent switches so you gain the upper hand and then leaving before the time runs out is a viable third option.

So again, it's a false dichotomy.

If a person backs out during player selection, they should get a loss and the other gets the win. It's the only way double confirmation would work.

[Solid_Altair]

Re: Is ranked still gonna be blind pick?

Yes. If you don't want to mirror match and the person is not switching fighters, you have the option to quit out and find someone who will.

If it counts as a loss to quit out, you don't have a choice. In that case, yes, you're technically right that you're "willing" to mirror match.

And we all agree it should result in aloss, right? Otherwise, mirrors would be the least of our concerns.

[Acebaldwin]

Re: Is ranked still gonna be blind pick?

Blind picks is the way to go, stop it you all. If you wanna win that much, just stick to those OP fighters, but I think this time around it'll be much more balance overall except for Flyweight so it really won't matter as much. Mirror match sucks, but that's the price to pay for not having counter picks over and over again.

And by counter picks, I don't necessarily mean a fighter who has a higher overall, but a fighter who's strengh is ideal against your fighter's weaknesses. Or possibly a fighter that has better grappling than your grappler, making him have a advantage from the get go for exemple.

I like thinking on my feet without having the info given to me on a silver platter, which is why it's always fun going in blind and having to base a gameplan with who you have on hand. That and hidden meters would make it so you'd have to think on your own instead of basing it all on what you would'nt see irl.

I'm still pissed about it, yeah.

Jazz, you are banned from Montreal from now on, I'll start making rounds with posters of your face as soon as the game releases. (this man is the one to blame!) With no further explanation, you'll just start getting stinky eyes from everyone in the streets, like ("what is he to blame for? :O could it be? omg, no way")

So it's either hidden meters, or say bye-bye to that delicious poutine, brother.

[Evil97]

Re: Is ranked still gonna be blind pick?

Blind picks is the way to go, stop it you all. If you wanna win that much, just stick to those OP fighters, but I think this time around it'll be much more balance overall except for Flyweight so it really won't matter as much. Mirror match sucks, but that's the price to pay for not having counter picks over and over again.

And by counter picks, I don't necessarily mean a fighter who has a higher overall, but a fighter who's strengh is ideal against your fighter's weaknesses. Or possibly a fighter that has better grappling than your grappler, making him have a advantage from the get go for exemple.

I like thinking on my feet without having the info given to me on a silver platter, which is why it's always fun going in blind and having to base a gameplan with who you have on hand. That and hidden meters would make it so you'd have to think on your own instead of basing it all on what you would'nt see irl.

I'm still pissed about it, yeah.

Jazz, you are banned from Montreal from now on, I'll start making rounds with posters of your face as soon as the game releases. (this man is the one to blame!) With no further explanation, you'll just start getting stinky eyes from everyone in the streets, like ("what is he to blame for? :O could it be? omg, no way")

So it's either hidden meters, or say bye-bye to that delicious poutine, brother.

I'm not going to stop. It's not about winning or having information. It's about giving people the freedom to comfortably utilize the entire roster.