Fighter AI Realism vs Difficulty

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  • AeroZeppelin27
    MVP
    • Nov 2017
    • 2287

    #631
    Re: Fighter AI Realism vs Difficulty

    Originally posted by aholbert32
    This. It would have to work though. FNC had the slider and it didnt do enough imo.
    I swear that slider only worked on counterstrikers haha. I could get sweet pea to throw 30 a round. Tops. JCC too.

    But Mike, Lennox, Cotto and all them boys didn't seem to change much at all.

    But out of all the sliders. Output is the one I want the most. Is sacrifice a goat for an output slider.

    Comment

    • johnmangala
      MVP
      • Apr 2016
      • 4525

      #632
      Re: Fighter AI Realism vs Difficulty

      Output slider is needed as well. For both striking and grappling.

      We should get vulnerability and frame advantage meters in practice too.
      I find it odd that practice mode even lost it's reset button in the menu.

      The AI is programmed for the meta. Playing against the AI or watching it with these meters would reveal a lot.

      I think an accuracy slider would can affect issues regarding hit detection and tracking. Maybe tweaking this could lead to actual accuracy changes being incorporated into the base game to fix the magnetism.

      Comment

      • AeroZeppelin27
        MVP
        • Nov 2017
        • 2287

        #633
        Re: Fighter AI Realism vs Difficulty

        Originally posted by aholbert32
        Just ignore the noise man.....

        Regarding Holdsworth, its a tough one. He doesnt have a custom template so we have to find one that matches his style. We also have very little tape on him. The devs could give him a sub specialist template but that makes him a bit too one sided imo.

        That makes sense.
        Whatabout Jacares template? He has a unique doesn't he?

        I find Jacares AI will freely kick because it wants you to take it down, and will box, but his ultimate goal is get top position and dominate you.

        But he still mixes up his striking and grappling fairly well, whilst shooting more TDs and attempting more subs than Holdsworths current AI.

        Of course his denial rates would have to drop (or is that affected by his top game stat?)

        Just a suggestion though, like I said before I haven't watched enough of Holdsworth. It's not like his current AI has to change.

        Comment

        • johnmangala
          MVP
          • Apr 2016
          • 4525

          #634
          Re: Fighter AI Realism vs Difficulty

          The AI should never be godlike, unless with sliders. Default difficulties should have realism at it's root.

          Otherwise what's the point? We'd just develop unrealistic habits and tendencies. Which is what you see now.

          You don't need to make the AI godlike for a challenge. This can be done by programming in better tactics and adaptations. Making the AI unrealistically difficult is not a good default. You could achieve that effect with tweaked sliders.

          All the AI's (especially Legendary) should be realistic at it's core.

          Comment

          • aholbert32
            (aka Alberto)
            • Jul 2002
            • 33106

            #635
            Re: Fighter AI Realism vs Difficulty

            Originally posted by AeroZeppelin27
            That makes sense.
            Whatabout Jacares template? He has a unique doesn't he?

            I find Jacares AI will freely kick because it wants you to take it down, and will box, but his ultimate goal is get top position and dominate you.

            But he still mixes up his striking and grappling fairly well, whilst shooting more TDs and attempting more subs than Holdsworths current AI.

            Of course his denial rates would have to drop (or is that affected by his top game stat?)

            Just a suggestion though, like I said before I haven't watched enough of Holdsworth. It's not like his current AI has to change.
            Yeah, I'm going to take a second look at it. I couldnt find a perfect fit. With that said, its funny that we are paying so much attention to someone who hasnt fought in 4 yrs.

            Keep them coming. If someone feels off when you face them, make sure you post it here.

            Comment

            • aholbert32
              (aka Alberto)
              • Jul 2002
              • 33106

              #636
              Re: Fighter AI Realism vs Difficulty

              Originally posted by AeroZeppelin27
              I swear that slider only worked on counterstrikers haha. I could get sweet pea to throw 30 a round. Tops. JCC too.

              But Mike, Lennox, Cotto and all them boys didn't seem to change much at all.

              But out of all the sliders. Output is the one I want the most. Is sacrifice a goat for an output slider.
              I always use Sweet pea and thats why i never saw the slider work. Skynet and the team have been surprising me with stuff so maybe they will add it. Keep in mind, that we are running out of major gameplay patches so it may be tough to get it in.

              Comment

              • johnmangala
                MVP
                • Apr 2016
                • 4525

                #637
                Re: Fighter AI Realism vs Difficulty

                Originally posted by aholbert32
                I always use Sweet pea and thats why i never saw the slider work. Skynet and the team have been surprising me with stuff so maybe they will add it. Keep in mind, that we are running out of major gameplay patches so it may be tough to get it in.
                Why don't fighters like Dillashaw, Cruz, etc switch stance more and fight like they do in real life?

                In EA UFC 1 we could at least shift any strike pretty much but it was removed all together, now not even Dillashaw can do that. He got signature lunges and the taunt but the AI rarely utilizes either, especially taunts.

                Comment

                • AeroZeppelin27
                  MVP
                  • Nov 2017
                  • 2287

                  #638
                  Re: Fighter AI Realism vs Difficulty

                  Originally posted by johnmangala
                  Why don't fighters like Dillashaw, Cruz, etc switch stance more and fight like they do in real life?

                  In EA UFC 1 we could at least shift any strike pretty much but it was removed all together, now not even Dillashaw can do that. He got signature lunges and the taunt but the AI rarely utilizes either, especially taunts.

                  I too would like to see fighters with A) a high switch rating or B) are known for switching switch far more often.

                  Currently, in my experience, guys like TJ, Bones, Max, Ferguson and Reem only really switch their stance if your damaging their lead leg.

                  Occasionally they'll switch if you do and even rarer still they'll just switch.

                  So its definitely something I'd like to see more AI's do if they do it IRL, but I'd also assume its been toned back because of the way the AI would coooonstantly switch with little ryhme or reason in UFC 2.

                  Comment

                  • AeroZeppelin27
                    MVP
                    • Nov 2017
                    • 2287

                    #639
                    Re: Fighter AI Realism vs Difficulty

                    Originally posted by aholbert32
                    Yeah, I'm going to take a second look at it. I couldnt find a perfect fit. With that said, its funny that we are paying so much attention to someone who hasnt fought in 4 yrs.

                    Keep them coming. If someone feels off when you face them, make sure you post it here.
                    Haha that's a good point.
                    I guess he's just easier than say, asking for Machida to change, which would require a new AI template almost.

                    Whereas I'm sure there's already one in play that would fit Holdsworth well.

                    Another AI that either needs a better template or even a unique IMO is Cro Cop, he just feels off.
                    He's uses a lot of combos and only sends question mark kicks high, he doesn't circle left at all really either.

                    However I'm having a hard time thinking of a good replacement. For some reason Rockholds striking template, without the grappling and with his Q kick rates removed and replaced with the rear high kick sounds good in my head.

                    But I don't think it really works like that does it?

                    I'd love to see him use more single strike cross counters and high kicks, basically using his real life double attack tactic, not throw combos often at all because he didn't really in MMA (especially back then)

                    I'd also love to see him have a large tendency to circle left, but also utilise it to counter, he does this IRL, circle left then lunge back out of distance once the inevitable heavy right comes in and pop off a cross counter.

                    If I come across an AI I think would fit him better ill post it. Do we know what one he currently uses?

                    His current AI might feel better if the ? Kick is removed (I've never seen him use it IRL personally) would that make him use the rear roundhouse instead?

                    Comment

                    • AeroZeppelin27
                      MVP
                      • Nov 2017
                      • 2287

                      #640
                      Re: Fighter AI Realism vs Difficulty

                      Originally posted by aholbert32
                      I always use Sweet pea and thats why i never saw the slider work. Skynet and the team have been surprising me with stuff so maybe they will add it. Keep in mind, that we are running out of major gameplay patches so it may be tough to get it in.
                      Sweet Pea was such a beeeast in FNC. Even at WW. For some reason EVERY time I played JCC vs Sweet Pea it'd turn into this crazy slow staring fest full of shoulder fakes and pure counterstriking.

                      Didn't matter which side I was on either, they'd both fight like that. Easily my favourite FNC matchup. I was also fond of Pea vs Duran, you could land some beautiful counters on that madman, and he'd just eat them and keep breaking your ribs. Good times!

                      Skynet did say we hadn't seen the last of sliders a while ago (in this thread I'm pretty sure) so that's a good sign.

                      Comment

                      • johnmangala
                        MVP
                        • Apr 2016
                        • 4525

                        #641
                        Re: Fighter AI Realism vs Difficulty

                        Which is why I am saying more sliders like movement speed, accuracy, output, and editable fighter templates etc would allow for more player control. There could be a slider that controls switch stance frequency etc.

                        I want the return of fully shiftable techniques, in regards to footwork. For the AI to fully fight like those fighters in real life they would need to be able to freely shift through techniques.



                        Multidirectional sprint could achieve this.

                        Right now they only have the lunges, most of the switch strikes were eliminated even.

                        Wonderboy can shift some strikes like his stationary body and leg kicks. Holloway can shift his straight into a jab. That's about it for shift strikes like EA UFC 1.

                        In EA UFC 1 it was fully shiftable, it what was unique to that game imo and it was removed completely like the parries instead of refining them.

                        Those were tools to deal with evasive or aggressive opponents, but they were eliminated rather than improved.




                        Comment

                        • Phillyboi207
                          Banned
                          • Apr 2012
                          • 3159

                          #642
                          Re: Fighter AI Realism vs Difficulty

                          John EVERYONE in this topic wants more custumization. Right now the focus is on making the best out of what we do have and you spamming this topic just makes it harder to read for the Devs.

                          Go fight some AI and give feedback on specific tendencies. Devs are aware we’d like even more control for sliders/ratings

                          Comment

                          • AeroZeppelin27
                            MVP
                            • Nov 2017
                            • 2287

                            #643
                            Re: Fighter AI Realism vs Difficulty

                            Ever since the latest tuner I've had AIs standup from Guard that wouldn't normally/shouldn't.

                            Specifically Cain Velasquez and Khabib.
                            Philly mentioned Khabib doing this the other day too so ill back that up and say I've had it too.

                            Comment

                            • pdandy
                              Rookie
                              • Dec 2009
                              • 343

                              #644
                              Re: Fighter AI Realism vs Difficulty

                              Pro AI no slider changes.
                              Khabib vs. Conor (me)

                              Just saw the same thing happen. Khabib was postured up in full guard and landing a lot of his shots because I couldn't guess the block correctly. Then he decides to standup.

                              Another thing was when Khabib got back clinch, he just stood there and denied all transitions. Didn't bother to strike or attempt any transitions.

                              Comment

                              • MeowingForVengeance
                                Pro
                                • May 2016
                                • 576

                                #645
                                Re: Fighter AI Realism vs Difficulty

                                Originally posted by pdandy
                                Another thing was when Khabib got back clinch, he just stood there and denied all transitions. Didn't bother to strike or attempt any transitions.
                                I've noticed this one, too.

                                Comment

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