Combo Spam

[RetractedMonkey]

Re: Combo Spam

75% of the community --- including several 'high level legit players' --- voted for increased stamina tax

https://forums.operationsports.com/f...highlight=poll

The exact solution may not be as easy to identify as head movement --- doesn't mean a solution isn't necessary or worth discussing.

That's bubkis because you can't even see who voted. And NONE of that poll was in regards to "combo spam".

There is a failure to communicate here and it isn't on my end. You guys need to be more receptive to the fact that you might be wrong in some sense. I certainly am open to it. I keep asking for videos or for ANYONE TO PLAY ME.

[ryangil23]

Re: Combo Spam

That's bubkis because you can't even see who voted. And NONE of that poll was in regards to "combo spam".

There is a failure to communicate here and it isn't on my end. You guys need to be more receptive to the fact that you might be wrong in some sense. I certainly am open to it. I keep asking for videos or for ANYONE TO PLAY ME.

Got a YouTube channel or something you can direct us to so we can watch how you play? Maybe you can show everyone what to do. I'm serious btw, I'm always open to learning.

[RetractedMonkey]

Re: Combo Spam

Got a YouTube channel or something you can direct us to so we can watch how you play? Maybe you can show everyone what to do. I'm serious btw, I'm always open to learning.

I don't. I have a few ESFL fights (one that I posted earlier in this topic) but I actually play much more conservatively in those because it's so high risk not to against good players.

But, if you're on XBox I will 100% play and have an open dialogue with you. I have no problem deconstructing my whole playstyle and trying to make other people better. I'm about raising the level of the community, not lowering the level of the game.

[ryangil23]

Re: Combo Spam

I don't. I have a few ESFL fights (one that I posted earlier in this topic) but I actually play much more conservatively in those because it's so high risk not to against good players.

But, if you're on XBox I will 100% play and have an open dialogue with you. I have no problem deconstructing my whole playstyle and trying to make other people better. I'm about raising the level of the community, not lowering the level of the game.

I don't have the game for Xbox right now but I'll watch the one you posted in this thread. I'm sure some of it will still apply to some degree.

[Papadoc60]

Re: Combo Spam

I didn't think this was an issue before, but now I do and it is especially bad at higher weight classes with the delays on head movement. It really starts to feel like it's whoever goes first and doesn't stop after this patch.

The block stat says that the higher the block stat is, the easier it is to counter off of a blocked strike. However, I don't feel like I have ANY opportunity to punch my opponent after blocking their strike. Block is also way too easy to just stand there and hold, I hate it.

[ryangil23]

Re: Combo Spam

I don't. I have a few ESFL fights (one that I posted earlier in this topic) but I actually play much more conservatively in those because it's so high risk not to against good players.

But, if you're on XBox I will 100% play and have an open dialogue with you. I have no problem deconstructing my whole playstyle and trying to make other people better. I'm about raising the level of the community, not lowering the level of the game.

Watched your match on the twitch video. Quite impressive against a tricky counter player. I definitely learned to be more patient after watching and a lot more careful with my kicks. I only play quick match but even against the better players I've noticed a big difference.

I still think stamina is a little too lenient with regards to strike volume but being more patient definitely helps a lot.

[TheShizNo1]

Re: Combo Spam

You guys are having a heated debate while being civil and rational; I'm so proud of you guys

[tomitomitomi]

Re: Combo Spam

I’m still laughing at that guy who quoted me saying that missing single strike jabs and not letting my stamina hit the floor while playing as a stamina king should have left me bone dry.

That open invite is still in place. If any of you want to use these combos against me. Of course I won’t get any takers though.


Sent from my iPhone using Operation Sports

1. I'm laughing at the idea that you found people disagreeing with you about a video game to be a "slap on the face".

2. What is up with you guys and black and white thinking? I said that missing 210 strikes should not leave you full stamina and you go to the opposite end and talk about being bone dry. Again, the combo masters also only throw strikes when they are full stamina and it regenerates faster than the block. They don't throw anything wild they throw the same uppercut-hook stuff you do and you have established how that's fine as long as you throw them at max stamina and use "a stamina king" (read: any viable character on Ranked).

3. "Single jabs". Just like how you supposedly threw only "a grand total of 78" strikes when you actually threw almost 300? Did you even watch your match? You primarily throw combos.

4. Me playing you wouldn't prove anything.
A. I'm from Europe so there's going to be ping.
B. I don't do it myself so my poor imitation would not give an accurate representation.
C. You've shown you can stream so just record a VOD of you playing ranked and dismantling fools. You will run up to those guys and you can show us plebs how a real master striker deals with it. The guy you fought showed up on MMAFRoO's latest video and he fought nothing like how he fought you. Maybe it's because he didn't want to stand and trade with a Cody Garbrandt as Cruz? :hmm: Nah probably just that he knew about your sick defense skills.
D. I'm on PS4.
E. Just because you beat me (or I beat you) it doesn't prove anything by itself. You could win for a plethora of reasons other than whether I was trying to do combos. Even if the tactic stopped working against the top 0.01% of the player base it is still a massive headache for others, including the other top 5%. If the best players force each other to slow their pace down then what is wrong with making it so that the excessive volumes go down across the board? It does not affect you at all since you think you are already being very methodical and efficient.

5. Try to actually argue your points rather than belittling and being condescending. Nobody takes your comment about wanting to improve the community seriously when you all you do is strawman, exaggerate, condescend, ignore and seriously tell people to "git gud" when they disagree with you about something.

You only have 2:30 minutes to play. You better be able to pack some punishment in there.

So why do the devs keep nerfing sway strike damage and headkick whiff punishment damage? Remember in the beta how people used to complain about constant rocks? You can obviously increase the potential damage but that got ruined because people were throwing 110 sway strikes a round with the burden of outplay on the defender.

Also, I have no idea where you got this narrative that people are opposed to real time rounds. No wonder you are getting all confused.

The main reason all this talk is BS is because stamina DOES get drained. Even if it didn’t, if its easily counterable (which it IS), there is no issue. I have yet to see any gameplay of this, only end game stats which say almost nothing about what really happened in the match.

Except you did not lose any stamina whatsoever in your fight. To prematurely counter-argue your point of how you are just so skilled that you expertly managed your stamina with the efficient 28% hit rate, why is the stamina then a complete non-factor at the highest levels? Why even have it in the game if it's so easily trivialized? I haven't watched every ESFL fight but barely anyone ever tries to win by getting a stamina advantage. If even 5% is a big deal like your comrade here said then you elite players should try to work towards that. But you don't. Similarly, why can't the fellow elite guy punish you for missing 3/4 of your strikes?

I have no interest in this being a 100% sim experience. My main concern is fun.

Neither do I. This again goes back to the black and white thinking y'all are keen on. The issue with high volume is not just that it is unrealistic but more importantly that it is is unfun to play against and dumbs the game down. Obviously nobody wants a game where headkicks finish the fight 90% of the time or a guy can lay and pray on you for 25 minutes.

Anyone that thinks the stamina is in need of MORE taxing isn't at a level of skill to know any better, cry about it all you want but when good people play each other if one develops even a 5% stamina advanantage its already a stupidly hard fight to win.

PS. Don't expect anyone to post a video of what they like to proclaim that would be way to easy.

Hey pal. First and foremost: Why did you play so differently against your buddy than you did vs MMAFRoO, on your YouTube and streams? Just wondering.

Here's an example fight where you threw 127 strikes per round and the only reason you're even remotely gassed is because you got dropped 5 times. Also, throughout the fight there are numerous occasions where you throw strikes at Dillashaw's block and your stamina is back to full before his block is fully back. For comparison, in your fight with Monkey you threw a more reasonable 82 strikes per round, although the numbers got deflated by the brief ground game.

Also, if we used montage clips to determine what a sports game should be like then the average basketball field goal would be a slam dunk or a sick 360 ankle breaker crossup 3 from half court. Hardly an accurate representation. Obviously combos should exist in the game but they should not be the go-to move every time because doing that is tiring fam.

Also, you CANNOT have a simulation experience with half time rounds. You guys are trying to base a sim style gameplay tweak off an inherently arcade system. Your baseline for changes should be appealing for real time clock to be the main setting.

The fact that none of you have identified that shows how off base you are.

For what it is worth, I have been advocating real time rounds since Undisputed 09. I would personally either do real time rounds or get rid of 3-round-fights as I think the current 3-round-fights are too short to make adjustments.

RetractedMonkey in a nutshell.

[Find_the_Door]

Re: Combo Spam

<iframe src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/wVo5ghYttkw" allow="autoplay; encrypted-media" allowfullscreen="" frameborder="0" width="560" height="315"></iframe>

Combo Spam

Thanks for proving my point visually! Combos are typically used with tremendous timing and either are high risk or high reward. There's just as many that throw combos and gas themselves for the remainder of the flight. Their pace slows considerably.

[Find_the_Door]

Re: Combo Spam

Also, you CANNOT have a simulation experience with half time rounds. You guys are trying to base a sim style gameplay tweak off an inherently arcade system. Your baseline for changes should be appealing for real time clock to be the main setting.

The fact that none of you have identified that shows how off base you are.

Literally I addressed that in this thread that it is accelerated clock which makes matters even worse.

But you'd rather spew opinion than actually read and respond.

[RetractedMonkey]

Re: Combo Spam

I'm belittling you because you guys come at this with an obvious bias of not experiencing proper play at the highest levels. When someone ranked higher than me (like Kenetic) says something, I shut the hell up and listen. You'd do well to practice that.

You referencing the head movement nerf as evidence that the devs want less punishment packed in the rounds is flawed. They did that because the head movement allowed players to gain an absurd advantage and force a gameplay style on people (something that "combo spam" doesn't do to good players no matter how often it crushes you). It had nothing to do with limiting the amount of damage down overall. What a massive leap in logic.

My 78 strikes quote was a mistype. In reality I was talking about landed strikes. There is nothing wrong with missing most of my strikes if what I'm throwing is mainly double jabs at full stamina and allowing it to fully regenerate before doing it again.

Mac was playing differently because we were in a high stakes match in the ESFL to determine our new rank in the league. I've already explained that but you clearly have no desire to actually listen. You want to bombard people with your viewpoint.


Also, if that quote of you was posted in here and not somewhere else, I apologize for the oversight, however you can see how I would with the sheer amount of text you're throwing at me.

[RetractedMonkey]

Re: Combo Spam

Literally I addressed that in this thread that it is accelerated clock which makes matters even worse.

But you'd rather spew opinion than actually read and respond.

You didn't "address" anything. If you actually read my posts you would realize I was using your quote to bounce my rebuttal off of. A lot of projection going on here.

Your experiences are also moot because you're basing them solely off the Nog brothers. That limits your breadth of gameplay and is enough to get you locked away in a padded cell in some countries.

[Find_the_Door]

Re: Combo Spam

You didn't "address" anything. If you actually read my posts you would realize I was using your quote to bounce my rebuttal off of. A lot of projection going on here.

Your experiences are also moot because you're basing them solely off the Nog brothers. That limits your breadth of gameplay and is enough to get you locked away in a padded cell in some countries.

No I use other fighters occasionally as well when I can't find fights. Guys like Lombard and Romero are able to throw at an absolutely mind boggling pace considering these rounds are halved and still not gas.

I'd be more than happy to fight you whenever regardless of this thread. I'm on PS4.

[MaccaC]

Re: Combo Spam

Hey pal. First and foremost: Why did you play so differently against your buddy than you did vs MMAFRoO, on your YouTube and streams? Just wondering.

Here's an example fight where you threw 127 strikes per round and the only reason you're even remotely gassed is because you got dropped 5 times. Also, throughout the fight there are numerous occasions where you throw strikes at Dillashaw's block and your stamina is back to full before his block is fully back. For comparison, in your fight with Monkey you threw a more reasonable 82 strikes per round, although the numbers got deflated by the brief ground game.
.

you're basically making our point for us, thats vs Kizzler someone I know and we have quick matches where no one really cares who wins and loses, the same volum of strikes aren't thrown in ESFL because its a higher level and people care more and its too risky. I'm not going to risk getting knocked down 5 times vs someone in ESFL.

I also dont care about how I play in ranked its not a measure of me as a player I played afro the other day and beat him with Aljo sterling throwing between a conservative and medium amount of strikes.

There is no hard and fast rule of what "too many" strikes are just what you want them to be.

[RetractedMonkey]

Re: Combo Spam

Let me add that there is NO issue with the block not recharging faster than my stamina. That's the WHOLE REASON the block doesn't go up. To give you time to regen and keep firing. The block breaks down like that so you cant just hold it without getting clobbered and even then it's tough to keep it down and land good damage sometimes without losing a ton of stamina.

You have to ACT. You cannot be purely defensive in that way. You must lunge or sway or fire back. Note that you will often be at a greater stamina advantage than the guy who just wasted theirs hitting your block. SO then attack the body or work on breaking their block down. Their stamina goes much slower when holding block, so YOU have the advantage after blocking. Blowing your stamina on a block against a high level player is a death sentence.

It's evident you guys are sitting there and taking the first punch(es) of a combo and trying to fire back and getting blasted by the rest of the combo. Then you decide to block every punch and do nothing. Total skill deficit issue here.