Combo Spam

[tomitomitomi]

Re: Combo Spam

I really dont understand why everyone wants so much stamina tax on pretty much everything.. and then the same people complaining about combo spam being too powerful want the block to be nerfed lmao... i dont understand the logic... does everyone want the meta to be standing there conserving energy... mma isnt about who can conserve the most energy... a game where you just stand there back lunging out of range or holding block until the other guy tires out sounds incredibly boring, and thats exactly what the game would turn into...

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Bunch of strawmans.

1. It is not black and white. Just because I think 140 is way too excessive does not mean I want 14 strikes per round. Believe it or not, there can be a balance between consistent action and meaningful strike selection.

2. Yes long-term stamina management should a part of the game. It might sound crazy but gracefully losing early rounds to get a stamina advantage in later rounds is a commonly used tactic in MMA.

3. Block is quite easy to break through if the guy just holds it. Forced block breaks were intended to be a short-term strategy to finish a rocked guy rather than the norm that it is now. Ideally damage should be dealt by reading your opponent's action and countering it.

4. If the guy excessively backdashes then a good player should be able to just walk him down and force him against the cage where the guy's movement is limited. If they circle away then strikes to that side should deal more damage to punish predictable circling. The obvious counterplay then would be to hit the guy as he is walking in and suddenly there is a compelling mind game going on. This is also basic footsies using fighting game terminology. Also, while people love to use "arcade fighters" as a dirty label, those games actually punish you for excessive and mindless button pressing.

5. No using a lower stamina fighter would just mean that you need to pace yourself and slow the fight down. If the opponent tries to force a higher pace then they should leave themselves more prone for counters. Again, another compelling and meaningful player interaction rather than the constant lopsided coin flips.

[jettosu134408]

Re: Combo Spam

Bunch of strawmans.

1. It is not black and white. Just because I think 140 is way too excessive does not mean I want 14 strikes per round. Believe it or not, there can be a balance between consistent action and meaningful strike selection.

2. Yes long-term stamina management should a part of the game. It might sound crazy but gracefully losing early rounds to get a stamina advantage in later rounds is a commonly used tactic in MMA.

3. Block is quite easy to break through if the guy just holds it. Forced block breaks were intended to be a short-term strategy to finish a rocked guy rather than the norm that it is now. Ideally damage should be dealt by reading your opponent's action and countering it.

4. If the guy excessively backdashes then a good player should be able to just walk him down and force him against the cage where the guy's movement is limited. If they circle away then strikes to that side should deal more damage to punish predictable circling. The obvious counterplay then would be to hit the guy as he is walking in and suddenly there is a compelling mind game going on. This is also basic footsies using fighting game terminology. Also, while people love to use "arcade fighters" as a dirty label, those games actually punish you for excessive and mindless button pressing.

5. No using a lower stamina fighter would just mean that you need to pace yourself and slow the fight down. If the opponent tries to force a higher pace then they should leave themselves more prone for counters. Again, another compelling and meaningful player interaction rather than the constant lopsided coin flips.

All of that is just under the assumption that players are going to fight "sim".... no amount of tuning and changes is going to force another person to play the game the way you think it should be played....thats why no patch is ever going to be good enough and we are going to have a constantly changing meta that is always going to have someone pissed...

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[angel182x]

Combo Spam

This whole thread is ridiculous. Of course angel wants to get rid of combos. All he does is circle behind the black lines and throw jabs until he can use the one combo he knows (overhand, lead uppercut, hook) and hope for a quick KO.

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[emoji23] that is spot on. what’s your GT? i gotta know who you are cus clearly we match up.

also for the record i don’t want combos gone~



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[Boiler569]

Re: Combo Spam

All of that is just under the assumption that players are going to fight "sim".... no amount of tuning and changes is going to force another person to play the game the way you think it should be played....thats why no patch is ever going to be good enough and we are going to have a constantly changing meta that is always going to have someone pissed...

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The assumption is that players will not fight Sim *UNLESS* you force them to do so by introducing elements that rewards sim-fighting; and punishes 'non-sim' fighting.

The franchise is on the right track to creating more of a sim-based game. It can be two steps forward and one step back, though.

As tomitomitomi said (I like this guy) --- it's not black and white. Just b/c we don't want 100, 120, 140 strikes/round ---- doesn't mean we want 20 strikes a round.

Personally my ideal would be (as compared to now):

+10% Perm Stamina Drain on Blocked Strikes

+15% Perm Stamina Drain on ANY type of missed strike (whether lunge, head movement, or just straight-up whiff)


Just that nudge --- 10%, 15%, maybe 20% --- would help SO much, and will still make it a fun game where you can easily throw 60+ strikes per round without too much of a penalty.

Just not 100+
_

[RetractedMonkey]

Re: Combo Spam

[emoji23] that is spot on. what’s your GT? i gotta know who you are cus clearly we match up.

also for the record i don’t want combos gone~



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We have fought like 6 times. It’s mainly Cruz vs Garbrandt but yesterday we played at LHW. You were Saki and I was Gus. Then Jones vs Gus.

To be fair, I don’t have a problem with your play style. I only care if you were trying to get rid combos to suit yourself.


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[Trillz]

Re: Combo Spam

We have fought like 6 times. It’s mainly Cruz vs Garbrandt but yesterday we played at LHW. You were Saki and I was Gus. Then Jones vs Gus.

To be fair, I don’t have a problem with your play style. I only care if you were trying to get rid combos to suit yourself.


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sometimes you cant inside fight when a guy blasts a combo every second when you get into range and have no stamina loss.

[RetractedMonkey]

Re: Combo Spam

sometimes you cant inside fight when a guy blasts a combo every second when you get into range and have no stamina loss.

Okay, then do it to me. I’m asking ANYONE to replicate this with me. If it’s that much of an issue someone should be able to run me down with combos, yes?


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[1stChrisso]

Re: Combo Spam

The franchise is on the right track to creating more of a sim-based game. It can be two steps forward and one step back, though.

Actually it is not! It is one step forward, one step back. I don't see major improvements towards sim tbh. It is more of a Tekken clone. I hate it!

[WarMMA]

Re: Combo Spam

Okay, then do it to me. I’m asking ANYONE to replicate this with me. If it’s that much of an issue someone should be able to run me down with combos, yes?


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Um what does that have to do with anything? The point is about the stamina and how ppl can throw all these strikes without losing a much long term stamina at all between rounds. Thats bs.

[RetractedMonkey]

Re: Combo Spam

Um what does that have to do with anything? The point is about the stamina and how ppl can throw all these strikes without losing a much long term stamina at all between rounds. Thats bs.

It has a lot to do with it considering you guys all have different things to say about it. Some of you have an issue with stamina, others the combos themselves being OP, and some want both changed.

Even if you just wanted a drastic stamina change it still matters. The big fuss is that people can just walk you down with combos without running out of long term stamina (something that isn’t even necessarily true). This means you inherently believe combos are overpowered and you probably have a difficult time countering them if you think a stamina nerf is needed. That is unless you’re looking at it from a purely realism stand point. In that case I wholly disagree.

This is a game and I have no desire to be limited to 40 strikes a round, especially with an accelerated clock being the base option selected. Stamina is already in a good place if you know what you’re doing, which clearly many of you do not. I know it sucks being told that and you think I’m just some jagov telling you that gitting gud is the answer, but it really is.

Blocking these shots will certainly drain their stamina and to be straight up told by you guys that it won’t is like a slap in the face. You’re literally injecting your own reality in the face of objective reality. Play with some lower tier guys and you’ll see how stamina really plays a role even if you aren’t throwing heat. And if you’re basing this off Ultimate Team, quit playing it and pick a mode that doesn’t suck.

The amount of people I run into in quick match that think they’re gonna just throw straights or hooks over and over is insane. I have no doubt this actually works against worse players because they wouldn’t keep doing it if it didn’t and you guys wouldn’t be complaining.

This game will never be what you want it to be. Time to buckle down.


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[bmlimo]

Re: Combo Spam

It has a lot to do with it considering you guys all have different things to say about it. Some of you have an issue with stamina, others the combos themselves being OP, and some want both changed.

Even if you just wanted a drastic stamina change it still matters. The big fuss is that people can just walk you down with combos without running out of long term stamina (something that isn’t even necessarily true). This means you inherently believe combos are overpowered and you probably have a difficult time countering them if you think a stamina nerf is needed. That is unless you’re looking at it from a purely realism stand point. In that case I wholly disagree.

This is a game and I have no desire to be limited to 40 strikes a round, especially with an accelerated clock being the base option selected. Stamina is already in a good place if you know what you’re doing, which clearly many of you do not. I know it sucks being told that and you think I’m just some jagov telling you that gitting gud is the answer, but it really is.

Blocking these shots will certainly drain their stamina and to be straight up told by you guys that it won’t is like a slap in the face. You’re literally injecting your own reality in the face of objective reality. Play with some lower tier guys and you’ll see how stamina really plays a role even if you aren’t throwing heat. And if you’re basing this off Ultimate Team, quit playing it and pick a mode that doesn’t suck.

The amount of people I run into in quick match that think they’re gonna just throw straights or hooks over and over is insane. I have no doubt this actually works against worse players because they wouldn’t keep doing it if it didn’t and you guys wouldn’t be complaining.

This game will never be what you want it to be. Time to buckle down.


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Can you put a video of your gameplay?

[RetractedMonkey]

Combo Spam

Can you put a video of your gameplay?

Look up the ESFL on twitch. I’m LemusKhan. I just fought at ESFL 8 (which you can find in the videos section, one of the last fights) and threw a grand total of like 78 strikes to win a three round decision.

I can also play you if you’re on Xbox.

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[RetractedMonkey]

Re: Combo Spam

https://www.twitch.tv/videos/243043350

Starts at 2:09:00

[Find_the_Door]

Re: Combo Spam

No one said you had to be limited to any number of strikes. What we're campaigning for is that you should have to pick your shots accordingly. If you whiff on strikes by not managing distance properly then yes you should be punished. If you are made to miss via evasion then yes you should be punished.

You're literally arguing for mindlessness if you oppose the above suggestions.

[Paledude45]

Re: Combo Spam

I need to see a video of this combo spam because I don't know how you would define it. Usually if someone just stands in front of me throwing non stop combos I can usually counter.