Guys, please let me help you get accustomed to the new update.

[SteveM584]

Re: Guys, please let me help you get accustomed to the new update.

"You don't have to punish everything" is so key to remember. Sometimes the punishment IS just to let them swing at air or hit your arms, don't take too much damage, and let them waste their stamina. When I get in trouble is when I just want to punish them early and often and I get caught trying to back lunge out of pressure too much or something. Planting my feet and blocking a couple shots and throwing a quick body knee or lead body book after their combo will slow them down quickly.

When guys charge forward with combos I think that is the most important thing to remember with the changes to head movement. You aren't going to land massive counters every single time you make them miss. Drag them into the second round and chances are you will be at a massive stamina advantage and can start to open up. "combo spam" is only a problem if you are unwilling to play strategically. Sure, if you insist on trading early you will get overwhelmed by Conor players and their 5 punch super powerful combos. Stay conservative early though and focus on making them miss as much as you can without taking any risks.

[Rack Attack]

Re: Guys, please let me help you get accustomed to the new update.

Body shots are very risky against combinations because they are ultimately slow compared to combo/hook spam. Combos are way too fast in this game & pace isn't even close to being realistic as every fighter throws faster than JJ did against Penne. But it's not big issue and i'm okay with that because last patch was huge improvement.

I’m sorry sir, but that is just not true. Do you have any idea how fast the jab-lead body hook combo is? I will admit the rear body hook is extremely slow when you just throw it out there naked, but if you minor slip to either side it will come out 10x faster. Don’t be so quick to dismiss the advice because you have a huge problem with defending “combo spam”. And tbh this combo spam that people keep mentioning is just not real. It is so easy to read someone’s patterns after their first couple of combo attempts. You have to be unpredictable, don’t throw so many 4 punch combinations. It just doesn’t work, never has. People who complain about it just have a huge problem with defense.

[ImAnOlogist]

Re: Guys, please let me help you get accustomed to the new update.

This issues here are the skill level required and the risk reward.

Combos are more stamina efficient than a simple retreat option. That's ridiculous.

Timing the head movement(which is in a great place now) requires way more skill than mashing a few buttons.

The retreat stamina drain isn't just from holding. As soon as you initiate you lose a chunk of perm stam which is crazy.

Right now the game makes defense take a lot of skill. That's fine but offense takes very little. Just mix up different hard combos.

I just want the jab to no longer break the block (or at least cut its effectiveness in half).

I know this probably sounds crazy to you since you're in the top 1 percentile when it comes to skill but the majority of players can't do what you do lol. We also don't have gaming monitors and the rendered 60 FPS which helps with reacting

The point of the Jab is to directly set up other strikes. Jabs open you up. Jabs should in every form break the block and even more so than they do. Blocking is too strong in my opinion.

[Phillyboi207]

Re: Guys, please let me help you get accustomed to the new update.

The point of the Jab is to directly set up other strikes. Jabs open you up. Jabs should in every form break the block and even more so than they do. Blocking is too strong in my opinion.

Agreed on jabs setting things up

Jabs do not, never have, and never will break someone's block down. A jab can set up strikes in a variety of ways including stunning opponents, setting a tempo/rhythm to your strikes, giving a false sense of security to strikes as well. It doesn't power through anyone's guard or make anyone over commit to blocking it.

Show me any footage you can find of someone's jab actually breaking down a fighters guard. I've seen jabs being used as a measuring stick, or jabs being used to draw out a counter or reaction. But jabs alone cannot break a guard. It's not enough power in the strike itself.

[ImAnOlogist]

Re: Guys, please let me help you get accustomed to the new update.

Agreed on jabs setting things up

Jabs do not, never have, and never will break someone's block down. A jab can set up strikes in a variety of ways including stunning opponents, setting a tempo/rhythm to your strikes, giving a false sense of security to strikes as well. It doesn't power through anyone's guard or make anyone over commit to blocking it.

Show me any footage you can find of someone's jab actually breaking down a fighters guard. I've seen jabs being used as a measuring stick, or jabs being used to draw out a counter or reaction. But jabs alone cannot break a guard. It's not enough power in the strike itself.

The game doesn't mechanically have anything else to open up someones guard. Because the block works like a force field you can't get your arms through or around it in it's current state, there is no other way. The jab is the only thing you can use to keep the block bar moving. The blocking bar regenerates far too fast for other strikes to make any sort of impact, and on top of the head health being nearly infinite in some guys. I just do see any other way unless we re-vamp striking again.

[Dankoz]

Re: Guys, please let me help you get accustomed to the new update.

I’m sorry sir, but that is just not true. Do you have any idea how fast the jab-lead body hook combo is? I will admit the rear body hook is extremely slow when you just throw it out there naked, but if you minor slip to either side it will come out 10x faster. Don’t be so quick to dismiss the advice because you have a huge problem with defending “combo spam”. And tbh this combo spam that people keep mentioning is just not real. It is so easy to read someone’s patterns after their first couple of combo attempts. You have to be unpredictable, don’t throw so many 4 punch combinations. It just doesn’t work, never has. People who complain about it just have a huge problem with defense.

I'll admit i was wrong about it. That combo seems to be incredibly fast, never even thought about trying it before your great advice. Now it's way easier to deal against combo spam, thanks about tip boss!

[ZombieRommel]

Re: Guys, please let me help you get accustomed to the new update.

This issues here are the skill level required and the risk reward.

Combos are more stamina efficient than a simple retreat option. That's ridiculous.

Timing the head movement(which is in a great place now) requires way more skill than mashing a few buttons.

The retreat stamina drain isn't just from holding. As soon as you initiate you lose a chunk of perm stam which is crazy.

Right now the game makes defense take a lot of skill. That's fine but offense takes very little. Just mix up different hard combos.

I just want the jab to no longer break the block (or at least cut its effectiveness in half).

I know this probably sounds crazy to you since you're in the top 1 percentile when it comes to skill but the majority of players can't do what you do lol. We also don't have gaming monitors and the rendered 60 FPS which helps with reacting

Maybe I am biased because a lot of this comes easily to me, that's a fair point.

I just get frustrated when I read posts by players requesting things that I know will objectively make the game worse at a high level (between players of equal skill) like an additional tax on blocked strikes, when the tools to make people gas out are already there and already being abused by some of the better defensive players in the game.

I truly don't know what the offense vs defense meta looks like at average levels of play, but at high levels, you simply cannot come forward stupidly or else you get gassed out and blown up.

You are right that timing the head movement requires more skill than mashing buttons... but isn't this somewhat true to reality?

It takes more skill to be Anderson Silva than it takes to be Chris Leben. Am I wrong? It takes more skill to read and predict an opponent than it does to just throw bombs at the air and hope one lands. But doing the latter is also far more dangerous IRL and in the game.

The important thing to me is that answers to aggression EXIST in the game. When the head movement spamming was at its peak, we legit had no good, safe answers to it, and that really bothered me. We had to play a guessing game, choose a power strike and hope we guessed right and it landed.

We have answers to aggression now. It's just up to the players to use them. We have a great back lunge that evades power shots almost 100%. We have a hugely improved head movement system. The major back lean evades power shots 100%. The minor slip into the straight shuts down the poke style aggression very hard.

The tradeoffs you make for coming forward and throwing are enormous, BUT it's up to the defender to capitalize on those tradeoffs.

About the jab's ability to break the block -- it's really not that potent unless you are walking forward with your block up, in which case you take take additional block damage. If you're standing still or going backward you don't take much penetration at all. And IF you are taking block penetration because the aggressor is being sneaky, that's what lunges, head movement, and the new fast retreat are for (the fast retreat is probably the best for staccato block break combos).

There is a great danger in making the game too turtly and making defense too easy. Look at For Honor - a potentially great game, ruined because the developers made blocking and parrying super powerful. This became what the reddit community called "the turtle meta."

To an extent we had that in UFC2 with the out-of-control parries where throwing a single jab could result in you getting head kicked into doom.

Defense right now takes some skill to pull off, but it's highly effective once you master it. The skill ceiling on the defense of UFC2 was incredibly low and amounted to "Hold high block and mash punch buttons to get parries".

I really, really don't want to go backward.

I'm trying to help intermediate players get to grips with the defensive tools because they DO work extremely well.

I think fighters with high stamina stats and/or the perk (the one the Diaz bros have) could probably use some sort of nerf, though, because they are exceedingly hard to gas out even when doing everything right defensively.

But against most fighters it is balanced IMO.

All this said, I am open to some of Martial's ideas regarding adjusting the ability to unrealistically pursue with strikes, but these are nuanced solutions.

Simply draining someone's stamina for hitting the block is ham-fisted, knee-jerk, and will make the game worse.

In other words, I'm not fighting against the idea of making offense more measured, but it has to be done the right way. We need a scalpel for this, not a hammer.

Some of the intermediate players having trouble with defense right now will eventually become advanced players, and the 'advanced' meta needs be fair, too, or else players will get there and simply quit the game.

[Phillyboi207]

Re: Guys, please let me help you get accustomed to the new update.

The game doesn't mechanically have anything else to open up someones guard. Because the block works like a force field you can't get your arms through or around it in it's current state, there is no other way. The jab is the only thing you can use to keep the block bar moving. The blocking bar regenerates far too fast for other strikes to make any sort of impact, and on top of the head health being nearly infinite in some guys. I just do see any other way unless we re-vamp striking again.

A simple 4 strike hard combo breaks block.

either 3 straights and a round strike or 3 round strikes in a straight.

The issue is that currently you can simple 1-1-2-3 and get through a guard.

What I'm proposing would force people to have to commit to combos full of hard strikes to break block

So a 2-5-2-3 or 3-4-3-2.

If someone throws a jab it has other intentions but breaking block isn't one of em.

I know this would buff block a bit so I think adding a little more bleed through overall would be a fair trade off. You should be scared to eat hard shots with your arms.

[ImAnOlogist]

Re: Guys, please let me help you get accustomed to the new update.

A simple 4 strike hard combo breaks block.

either 3 straights and a round strike or 3 round strikes in a straight.

The issue is that currently you can simple 1-1-2-3 and get through a guard.

What I'm proposing would force people to have to commit to combos full of hard strikes to break block

So a 2-5-2-3 or 3-4-3-2.

If someone throws a jab it has other intentions but breaking block isn't one of em.

I know this would buff block a bit so I think adding a little more bleed through overall would be a fair trade off. You should be scared to eat hard shots with your arms.

I know how to break the block as it stands. But expecting people to memorize combos isn't very user friendly. Throwing combos should provide the mix up, or benefit in speed of the combo output instead of throwing each strike individually, as it does. But expecting the only way to break the block to be ONLY if you're throwing a combo is not a good idea. I know you're looking for balance and the realism is important but there's got to be a mechanic in place to allow a balanced experience for everyone.

[Phillyboi207]

Re: Guys, please let me help you get accustomed to the new update.

Maybe I am biased because a lot of this comes easily to me, that's a fair point.

I just get frustrated when I read posts by players requesting things that I know will objectively make the game worse at a high level (between players of equal skill) like an additional tax on blocked strikes, when the tools to make people gas out are already there and already being abused by some of the better defensive players in the game.

I truly don't know what the offense vs defense meta looks like at average levels of play, but at high levels, you simply cannot come forward stupidly or else you get gassed out and blown up.

You are right that timing the head movement requires more skill than mashing buttons... but isn't this somewhat true to reality?

It takes more skill to be Anderson Silva than it takes to be Chris Leben. Am I wrong? It takes more skill to read and predict an opponent than it does to just throw bombs at the air and hope one lands. But doing the latter is also far more dangerous IRL and in the game.

The important thing to me is that answers to aggression EXIST in the game. When the head movement spamming was at its peak, we legit had no good, safe answers to it, and that really bothered me. We had to play a guessing game, choose a power strike and hope we guessed right and it landed.

We have answers to aggression now. It's just up to the players to use them. We have a great back lunge that evades power shots almost 100%. We have a hugely improved head movement system. The major back lean evades power shots 100%. The minor slip into the straight shuts down the poke style aggression very hard.

The tradeoffs you make for coming forward and throwing are enormous, BUT it's up to the defender to capitalize on those tradeoffs.

About the jab's ability to break the block -- it's really not that potent unless you are walking forward with your block up, in which case you take take additional block damage. If you're standing still or going backward you don't take much penetration at all. And IF you are taking block penetration because the aggressor is being sneaky, that's what lunges, head movement, and the new fast retreat are for (the fast retreat is probably the best for staccato block break combos).

There is a great danger in making the game too turtly and making defense too easy. Look at For Honor - a potentially great game, ruined because the developers made blocking and parrying super powerful. This became what the reddit community called "the turtle meta."

To an extent we had that in UFC2 with the out-of-control parries where throwing a single jab could result in you getting head kicked into doom.

Defense right now takes some skill to pull off, but it's highly effective once you master it. The skill ceiling on the defense of UFC2 was incredibly low and amounted to "Hold high block and mash punch buttons to get parries".

I really, really don't want to go backward.

I'm trying to help intermediate players get to grips with the defensive tools because they DO work extremely well.

I think fighters with high stamina stats and/or the perk (the one the Diaz bros have) could probably use some sort of nerf, though, because they are exceedingly hard to gas out even when doing everything right defensively.

But against most fighters it is balanced IMO.

All this said, I am open to some of Martial's ideas regarding adjusting the ability to unrealistically pursue with strikes, but these are nuanced solutions.

Simply draining someone's stamina for hitting the block is ham-fisted, knee-jerk, and will make the game worse.

In other words, I'm not fighting against the idea of making offense more measured, but it has to be done the right way. We need a scalpel for this, not a hammer.

Some of the intermediate players having trouble with defense right now will eventually become advanced players, and the 'advanced' meta needs be fair, too, or else players will get there and simply quit the game.

Fair reply.

Head movement overall should take more skill but things like closing distance or cutting off the cage take a lot of skill IRL. Chris Leben can walk forward all day throwing punches. But I guarantee he would never be able to cut the cage off against Stephen Thompson or be close enough to throw a 3-4 hit combo. Plus someone like Leben would still get tired if he didn't manage his stamina. The game holds the attack's hand by giving them unrealistic stamina and magnetic punches.

As far as break block goes I just tested it in practice <iframe frameborder=0 webkitAllowFullScreen mozallowfullscreen allowFullScreen scale="tofit" width="320" height="185" style="max-width:100%" src="http://xboxdvr.com/gamer/mavsfan1012/video/49039199/embed"></iframe>
Derrick Lewis can break down Ngannou's guard despite him moving back with the same 3 jabs. I did throw a straight in there by my point is you should have to commit to breaking someone's block with hard strikes.

Honestly my ideal version of the game would make defensive tools easier or harder depending on your fighter's ratings. Lunge evasion windows should be based on the footwork rating.

I also think blocked/landed strikes costing more stamina would work if we lowered the tax on evaded strikes and increased blocked strikes a little. That way things are a bit closer between the two. Right now there's a staggering difference that I think is a bit exaggerated in relation to real life.

I don't want a game that based on turtling. I want a game that works like MMA does IRL. Styles should make fights and varying styles should have success depending on matchups. Ideally you could pick up different fighters and play them to their strengths and succeed.

[Rack Attack]

Re: Guys, please let me help you get accustomed to the new update.

I'll admit i was wrong about it. That combo seems to be incredibly fast, never even thought about trying it before your great advice. Now it's way easier to deal against combo spam, thanks about tip boss!

Hey man, I’m truly glad I could help you out. I’ve been trying to convince people that body shots are the way to go. Just keep on grinding and practicing your body combos, you will begin to see how much better your striking is compared to others who just solely depend on head hunting. When you rip the body, it opens up the head strikes because they will not know when and where to block. I hope you continue to excel at your game and wreck more bums online! Lol but in all seriousness though, we should all be trying to help each other out! It’s the only way the game is going to grow and get more competition. People need to know how to play or they will just give up. And that’s not good for the community at all.

[ungorborongo]

Re: Guys, please let me help you get accustomed to the new update.

Maybe I am biased because a lot of this comes easily to me, that's a fair point.

I just get frustrated when I read posts by players requesting things that I know will objectively make the game worse at a high level (between players of equal skill) like an additional tax on blocked strikes, when the tools to make people gas out are already there and already being abused by some of the better defensive players in the game.

I truly don't know what the offense vs defense meta looks like at average levels of play, but at high levels, you simply cannot come forward stupidly or else you get gassed out and blown up.

You are right that timing the head movement requires more skill than mashing buttons... but isn't this somewhat true to reality?

It takes more skill to be Anderson Silva than it takes to be Chris Leben. Am I wrong? It takes more skill to read and predict an opponent than it does to just throw bombs at the air and hope one lands. But doing the latter is also far more dangerous IRL and in the game.

The important thing to me is that answers to aggression EXIST in the game. When the head movement spamming was at its peak, we legit had no good, safe answers to it, and that really bothered me. We had to play a guessing game, choose a power strike and hope we guessed right and it landed.

We have answers to aggression now. It's just up to the players to use them. We have a great back lunge that evades power shots almost 100%. We have a hugely improved head movement system. The major back lean evades power shots 100%. The minor slip into the straight shuts down the poke style aggression very hard.

The tradeoffs you make for coming forward and throwing are enormous, BUT it's up to the defender to capitalize on those tradeoffs.

About the jab's ability to break the block -- it's really not that potent unless you are walking forward with your block up, in which case you take take additional block damage. If you're standing still or going backward you don't take much penetration at all. And IF you are taking block penetration because the aggressor is being sneaky, that's what lunges, head movement, and the new fast retreat are for (the fast retreat is probably the best for staccato block break combos).

There is a great danger in making the game too turtly and making defense too easy. Look at For Honor - a potentially great game, ruined because the developers made blocking and parrying super powerful. This became what the reddit community called "the turtle meta."

To an extent we had that in UFC2 with the out-of-control parries where throwing a single jab could result in you getting head kicked into doom.

Defense right now takes some skill to pull off, but it's highly effective once you master it. The skill ceiling on the defense of UFC2 was incredibly low and amounted to "Hold high block and mash punch buttons to get parries".

I really, really don't want to go backward.

I'm trying to help intermediate players get to grips with the defensive tools because they DO work extremely well.

I think fighters with high stamina stats and/or the perk (the one the Diaz bros have) could probably use some sort of nerf, though, because they are exceedingly hard to gas out even when doing everything right defensively.

But against most fighters it is balanced IMO.

All this said, I am open to some of Martial's ideas regarding adjusting the ability to unrealistically pursue with strikes, but these are nuanced solutions.

Simply draining someone's stamina for hitting the block is ham-fisted, knee-jerk, and will make the game worse.

In other words, I'm not fighting against the idea of making offense more measured, but it has to be done the right way. We need a scalpel for this, not a hammer.

Some of the intermediate players having trouble with defense right now will eventually become advanced players, and the 'advanced' meta needs be fair, too, or else players will get there and simply quit the game.

Would you agree that body kicks don't do nearly enough?

[AeroZeppelin27]

Re: Guys, please let me help you get accustomed to the new update.

Would you agree that body kicks don't do nearly enough?

They do significant stamina drain when landed at the right range and especially on a low temp stamina opponent.

They also can do a nice chunk of damage if you focus on the liver.

However, given how easy they are to catch, I wouldn't be adverse to a slight power buff on roundhouses and a slightly faster startup on body teeps, but that's just me.

Now to go off topic a bit..

I also really want the 2-3b-Rear body roundhouse and 3-3b-rear body roundhouse combos to be fixed. GPD has said they're in the game, the combo list he posted shows them as Muay Thai level 4 combos.

Buuut, Overeem, Saki, GDR, Bullet, Also, Almeida and various others can't throw those combos, so either they're EXTREMELY unique or they're not working atm.

I'd have let it go as a simple typo but GPD actively recommended them to someone on Reddit so they have to be there somewhere..

Anybody found these combos?
2-3b-Rear body roundhouse.
3-3b-Rear body roundhouse.

[Solid_Altair]

Re: Guys, please let me help you get accustomed to the new update.

I'd have let it go as a simple typo but GPD actively recommended them to someone on Reddit so they have to be there somewhere..

Anybody found these combos?
2-3b-Rear body roundhouse.
3-3b-Rear body roundhouse.

I dont think I've used them. And they sound great! Thanks for posting them here.

[bmlimo]

Re: Guys, please let me help you get accustomed to the new update.

Maybe I am biased because a lot of this comes easily to me, that's a fair point.

I just get frustrated when I read posts by players requesting things that I know will objectively make the game worse at a high level (between players of equal skill) like an additional tax on blocked strikes, when the tools to make people gas out are already there and already being abused by some of the better defensive players in the game.

I truly don't know what the offense vs defense meta looks like at average levels of play, but at high levels, you simply cannot come forward stupidly or else you get gassed out and blown up.

You are right that timing the head movement requires more skill than mashing buttons... but isn't this somewhat true to reality?

It takes more skill to be Anderson Silva than it takes to be Chris Leben. Am I wrong? It takes more skill to read and predict an opponent than it does to just throw bombs at the air and hope one lands. But doing the latter is also far more dangerous IRL and in the game.

The important thing to me is that answers to aggression EXIST in the game. When the head movement spamming was at its peak, we legit had no good, safe answers to it, and that really bothered me. We had to play a guessing game, choose a power strike and hope we guessed right and it landed.

We have answers to aggression now. It's just up to the players to use them. We have a great back lunge that evades power shots almost 100%. We have a hugely improved head movement system. The major back lean evades power shots 100%. The minor slip into the straight shuts down the poke style aggression very hard.

The tradeoffs you make for coming forward and throwing are enormous, BUT it's up to the defender to capitalize on those tradeoffs.

About the jab's ability to break the block -- it's really not that potent unless you are walking forward with your block up, in which case you take take additional block damage. If you're standing still or going backward you don't take much penetration at all. And IF you are taking block penetration because the aggressor is being sneaky, that's what lunges, head movement, and the new fast retreat are for (the fast retreat is probably the best for staccato block break combos).

There is a great danger in making the game too turtly and making defense too easy. Look at For Honor - a potentially great game, ruined because the developers made blocking and parrying super powerful. This became what the reddit community called "the turtle meta."

To an extent we had that in UFC2 with the out-of-control parries where throwing a single jab could result in you getting head kicked into doom.

Defense right now takes some skill to pull off, but it's highly effective once you master it. The skill ceiling on the defense of UFC2 was incredibly low and amounted to "Hold high block and mash punch buttons to get parries".

I really, really don't want to go backward.

I'm trying to help intermediate players get to grips with the defensive tools because they DO work extremely well.

I think fighters with high stamina stats and/or the perk (the one the Diaz bros have) could probably use some sort of nerf, though, because they are exceedingly hard to gas out even when doing everything right defensively.

But against most fighters it is balanced IMO.

All this said, I am open to some of Martial's ideas regarding adjusting the ability to unrealistically pursue with strikes, but these are nuanced solutions.

Simply draining someone's stamina for hitting the block is ham-fisted, knee-jerk, and will make the game worse.

In other words, I'm not fighting against the idea of making offense more measured, but it has to be done the right way. We need a scalpel for this, not a hammer.

Some of the intermediate players having trouble with defense right now will eventually become advanced players, and the 'advanced' meta needs be fair, too, or else players will get there and simply quit the game.

People want to nerf the combo spam not the stamina... if they somehow make combos less overpower people will stop complain about stamina