You're gonna patch the playerbase away

[YourFatZebra]

Re: You're gonna patch the playerbase away

complexity isn't an on or off switch.

Some games have incredibly high skill floors with low ceilings. Some have incredibly high skill ceilings with high floors. some have skill ceilings that are high but floors that are low. most sports games have low skill floors but super high ceilings.

Fighting games generally have the highest floors. Even then, UFC is one of the easiest fighting games out there, if you can consider it that.

No way.

This is by far one of the more complex fighting games. Half the fighting games out there can be played by just mashing buttons anyways, until you reach a certain level of play. Hand a 3 year old a controller for Street Fighter and then hand him one for UFC 3. Let me know how much he loves SF and how that tantrum goes after. Fighting games may have a higher skill ceiling, but a higher skill floor is asinine. That's usually the selling point for games like Tekken or Smash, anyone can play them but there is depth to be found. It's just not the same with this game, and I'm not even saying that it needs to be, I'm just pointing out that it's not.

This game is entirely different from those you listed. The comparison to Madden or NBA was more apt because of what those games are. I wouldn't think this game is drawing from the Tekken fanbase as much the Sports Game fanbase. I'm sure some people are just fighting game fans who were interested in the game, but I would assume the sports fan percentage to be higher. However, to suggest that UFC is easier to play than Tekken is laughable.

Don't believe me?
Again lets test it. Not even with a child, grab an adult. Don't explain how to play either game and just let them try both. I promise you they won't have the same kind of success with UFC they would with Tekken. You could actually play through the entire story mode of Tekken, fight homies online or offline with relative success, without ever knowing a single combo or special attack. My best friend is a Tekken fanatic (Your Sexy Sloth on XBL) but he only started playing the game like two years ago playing Tag 2 because his Ex and her friends were obsessive over it. They played that game religiously, but Zach had never really played it longer than 10 or so minutes at a time.

Long story short, over time nobody wanted to play with him at all anymore. By the time he bought Tekken 7 he had to coerce people to play against him and pick specific characters and such. He has several characters with very high rankings in treasure battle and I rarely see him lose. All of that without ever once entering practice mode or looking at a move list. He just figured it out.

You can not do the same thing in UFC 3 at all, just can't. If nobody explains grappling, submissions, reversals, head movement, counters, stamina, stationary strikes, on and on and so forth you'll never just figure it out on your own. Even if you're an MMA fan who knows you SHOULD be able to do that thing, figuring out the input without help would be impossible.

So I just don't see how you can say that's objectively easier. I understand all I'm providing is anecdotal evidence, but this isn't really a conversation for which stats exist, all I'd be able to provide is my own perspective.

[Morgan Monkman]

Re: You're gonna patch the playerbase away

No way.

This is by far one of the more complex fighting games. Half the fighting games out there can be played by just mashing buttons anyways, until you reach a certain level of play. Hand a 3 year old a controller for Street Fighter and then hand him one for UFC 3. Let me know how much he loves SF and how that tantrum goes after. Fighting games may have a higher skill ceiling, but a higher skill floor is asinine. That's usually the selling point for games like Tekken or Smash, anyone can play them but there is depth to be found. It's just not the same with this game, and I'm not even saying that it needs to be, I'm just pointing out that it's not.

This game is entirely different from those you listed. The comparison to Madden or NBA was more apt because of what those games are. I wouldn't think this game is drawing from the Tekken fanbase as much the Sports Game fanbase. I'm sure some people are just fighting game fans who were interested in the game, but I would assume the sports fan percentage to be higher. However, to suggest that UFC is easier to play than Tekken is laughable.

Don't believe me?
Again lets test it. Not even with a child, grab an adult. Don't explain how to play either game and just let them try both. I promise you they won't have the same kind of success with UFC they would with Tekken. You could actually play through the entire story mode of Tekken, fight homies online or offline with relative success, without ever knowing a single combo or special attack. My best friend is a Tekken fanatic (Your Sexy Sloth on XBL) but he only started playing the game like two years ago playing Tag 2 because his Ex and her friends were obsessive over it. They played that game religiously, but Zach had never really played it longer than 10 or so minutes at a time.

Long story short, over time nobody wanted to play with him at all anymore. By the time he bought Tekken 7 he had to coerce people to play against him and pick specific characters and such. He has several characters with very high rankings in treasure battle and I rarely see him lose. All of that without ever once entering practice mode or looking at a move list. He just figured it out.

You can not do the same thing in UFC 3 at all, just can't. If nobody explains grappling, submissions, reversals, head movement, counters, stamina, stationary strikes, on and on and so forth you'll never just figure it out on your own. Even if you're an MMA fan who knows you SHOULD be able to do that thing, figuring out the input without help would be impossible.

So I just don't see how you can say that's objectively easier. I understand all I'm providing is anecdotal evidence, but this isn't really a conversation for which stats exist, all I'd be able to provide is my own perspective.

Weren't you just saying your little brother is destroying everyone and he doesn't know how to play?

The only complicated part of this game is the ground, having to remember every transition is a chore. Not to mention the ground game is boring to begin with.

[Not_Entertained]

Re: You're gonna patch the playerbase away

No way.

This is by far one of the more complex fighting games. Half the fighting games out there can be played by just mashing buttons anyways, until you reach a certain level of play. Hand a 3 year old a controller for Street Fighter and then hand him one for UFC 3. Let me know how much he loves SF and how that tantrum goes after. Fighting games may have a higher skill ceiling, but a higher skill floor is asinine. That's usually the selling point for games like Tekken or Smash, anyone can play them but there is depth to be found. It's just not the same with this game, and I'm not even saying that it needs to be, I'm just pointing out that it's not.

This game is entirely different from those you listed. The comparison to Madden or NBA was more apt because of what those games are. I wouldn't think this game is drawing from the Tekken fanbase as much the Sports Game fanbase. I'm sure some people are just fighting game fans who were interested in the game, but I would assume the sports fan percentage to be higher. However, to suggest that UFC is easier to play than Tekken is laughable.

Don't believe me?
Again lets test it. Not even with a child, grab an adult. Don't explain how to play either game and just let them try both. I promise you they won't have the same kind of success with UFC they would with Tekken. You could actually play through the entire story mode of Tekken, fight homies online or offline with relative success, without ever knowing a single combo or special attack. My best friend is a Tekken fanatic (Your Sexy Sloth on XBL) but he only started playing the game like two years ago playing Tag 2 because his Ex and her friends were obsessive over it. They played that game religiously, but Zach had never really played it longer than 10 or so minutes at a time.

Long story short, over time nobody wanted to play with him at all anymore. By the time he bought Tekken 7 he had to coerce people to play against him and pick specific characters and such. He has several characters with very high rankings in treasure battle and I rarely see him lose. All of that without ever once entering practice mode or looking at a move list. He just figured it out.

You can not do the same thing in UFC 3 at all, just can't. If nobody explains grappling, submissions, reversals, head movement, counters, stamina, stationary strikes, on and on and so forth you'll never just figure it out on your own. Even if you're an MMA fan who knows you SHOULD be able to do that thing, figuring out the input without help would be impossible.

So I just don't see how you can say that's objectively easier. I understand all I'm providing is anecdotal evidence, but this isn't really a conversation for which stats exist, all I'd be able to provide is my own perspective.

Virtua Fighter, Street Fighter IV, Blaz Blue, Guilty Gear etc are all more complex.

[YourFatZebra]

Re: You're gonna patch the playerbase away

Weren't you just saying your little brother is destroying everyone and he doesn't know how to play?

The only complicated part of this game is the ground, having to remember every transition is a chore. Not to mention the ground game is boring to begin with.

Yes I did, this conversation about the games skill floor has gotten away from the entire point of what I was talking about. His record and success with the game actually fits into the larger idea of what I'm talking about, the game being frustrating for people who actually want to play it.

Because he's just a kid, he doesn't WANT to be better at the game so if he was losing every fight, he'd still keep playing 'cause that's what he was doing prepatch. Whereas an adult who actually wants to be good at this, may stop playing because of whatever reason discouraging them. He won't, he doesn't care about being good he's a kid. But since the patch, his specific "throw wild combos while moving forward" style is way more powerful than it was before. That was the issue I was trying to outline by bringing up his record. I can see how that could cloud up my argument about the game being too complex for a new player, since he's just a kid and doesn't know ****. I should give him more credit though, he probably knows more than I let on because of how much he has seen me play. But he knows nothing about grappling or how to throw hooks/spin kicks and whatnot and still is positive online. But that's not really what I was referring to.

I'm talking about actually LEARNING the game. Trying to go from knowing nothing to being competitive with D4 or D5 players. I feel like in it's current state, that's such an intimidating task I understand why people wouldn't want to do it. Jordan hasn't faced any Jigsaw, Kinetic, T4H type people and his 5 or 6 losses he has were extremely one sided. But like I said, he has no interest in learning the game, he's literally hitting buttons, and his success is dependent on the latest patch. He wasn't winning any fights before that.

That doesn't make the game easier than Tekken, NBA, Madden or any of those games because there are children, or just unskilled gamers, who are just as successful at those games. I would argue more so because of how many mechanics there are to learn in UFC VS those games. Once you end up fighting a higher level player, that hit whatever button **** don't fly. However, barely knowing how to operate your character isn't much of a problem in Tekken. Because of the stick/button input in that game, the strikes are much easier to pull off by just hammering on the controller. Stamina and the shoulder button modifiers makes it more complicated in UFC. Again, my point in referencing Jordan's record was not to say that the game is inherently "so easy a 9 year old could do it." But rather, that the new patch has made it so hard for people to defend against combos that it's "so HARD an adult CANT do it".

Kinda adds more to the game BECOMING overcomplicated with each successive update. That's why I titled this what I titled this, because UFC 2 didn't have this same issue and UFC 3 didn't have as big of a problem with it at launch. I know alot of people who are discouraged because of how intricate the systems are. Jordan has found a loophole, the same loophole that alot of adults are exploiting. I get what you're saying by bringing that up, I just think the specific nature of what he's doing and how it relates to the larger point here, with the patches changing everything, is separate from the whole skill gap/skill floor discussion that this kinda delved off into.

If that makes sense. I know I'm rambling, I understand this is a weird point, but I really believe this to be true because I see it happening with people I actually know.

Virtua Fighter, Street Fighter IV, Blaz Blue, Guilty Gear etc are all more complex.

Not SF. I'll give you the others cause I don't have enough knowledge to say otherwise, but not SF no way.

EDIT: The META of SF may be deeper, fine. I'll give you that if that's where you're coming from with that. But the meta is only so deep because the controls aren't. When you have such a limited set of attacks you have to be very precise with how you input them if you're fighting someone else who's skilled. But most people I know don't play SF that way. They just press whatever, they might do a Hadoken on accident. Again, can't play UFC 3 that way. My brother is exploiting a loophole, but he's only winning against human opponents who can't handle combo spam. He still sucks against AI, he still can't beat me or anyone who's figured out the new head movement.

[Morgan Monkman]

Re: You're gonna patch the playerbase away

Yes I did, this conversation about the games skill floor has gotten away from the entire point of what I was talking about. His record and success with the game actually fits into the larger idea of what I'm talking about, the game being frustrating for people who actually want to play it.

Because he's just a kid, he doesn't WANT to be better at the game so if he was losing every fight, he'd still keep playing 'cause that's what he was doing prepatch. Whereas an adult who actually wants to be good at this, may stop playing because of whatever reason discouraging them. He won't, he doesn't care about being good he's a kid. But since the patch, his specific "throw wild combos while moving forward" style is way more powerful than it was before. That was the issue I was trying to outline by bringing up his record. I can see how that could cloud up my argument about the game being too complex for a new player, since he's just a kid and doesn't know ****. I should give him more credit, he probably knows more than I let on because of how much he has seen me play. But he knows nothing about grappling or how to throw hooks/spin kicks and whatnot and still is positive online. But that's not really what I was referring to.

I'm talking about actually LEARNING the game. Trying to go from knowing nothing to being competitive with D4 or D5 players. I feel like in it's current state, that's such an intimidating task I understand why people wouldn't want to do it. Jordan hasn't faced any Jigsaw, Kinetic, T4H type people and his 5 or 6 losses he has were extremely one sided. But like I said, he has no interest in learning the game, he's literally hitting buttons, and his success is dependent on the latest patch. He wasn't winning any fights before that.

That doesn't make the game easier than Tekken, NBA, Madden or any of those games because there are children, or just unskilled gamers, who are just as successful at those games. I would argue more so because of how many mechanics there are to learn in UFC VS those games. Once you end up fighting a higher level player, that hit whatever button **** don't fly. However, barely knowing how to operate your character isn't much of a problem in Tekken. Because of the stick/button input in that game, the strikes are much easier to pull off by just hammering on the controller. Stamina and the shoulder button modifiers makes it more complicated in UFC. Again, my point in referencing Jordan's record was not to say that the game is inherently "so easy a 9 year old could do it." But rather, that the new patch has made it so hard for people to defend against combos that it's "so HARD an adult CANT do it".

Kinda adds more to the game BECOMING overcomplicated with each successive update. That's why I titled this what I titled this, because UFC 2 didn't have this same issue and UFC 3 didn't have as big of a problem with it at launch. I know alot of people who are discouraged because of how intricate the systems are. Jordan has found a loophole, the same loophole that alot of adults are exploiting. I get what you're saying by bringing that up, I just think the specific nature of what he's doing and how it relates to the larger point here, with the patches changing everything, is separate from the whole skill gap/skill floor discussion that this kinda delved off into.

If that makes sense. I know I'm rambling, I understand this is a weird point, but I really believe this to be true because I see it happening with people I actually know.



Not SF. I'll give you the others cause I don't have enough knowledge to say otherwise, but not SF no way.

IMO things holding this game back are,

1. Unnecassarary combos - We don't need them, let me put together punches on my own. Every punch needs its own strength and weakness, not, add this kick at the end of 3 jabs and you get a insta rock.

2. Ground game - Its not user friendly and has lots of mechanics under the hood that you will only learn through massive amounts of hours and testing.

[YourFatZebra]

Re: You're gonna patch the playerbase away

IMO things holding this game back are,

1. Unnecassarary combos - We don't need them, let me put together punches on my own. Every punch needs its own strength and weakness, not, add this kick at the end of 3 jabs and you get a insta rock.

2. Ground game - Its not user friendly and has lots of mechanics under the hood that you will only learn through massive amounts of hours and testing.

I really am hoping this grappling update they keep mentioning is substantial. I love Jiu Jitsu, I wish I had the money to study it, and it sucks that the video game adaptation of it isn't close enough to reality to be as enjoyable as actual Jiu Jitsu. Or just general Wrestling either, none of it really feels correct when you watch it happen in real life and then look at the game.

[Phillyboi207]

Re: You're gonna patch the playerbase away

I have two main issues with the patch although it was huge step in the right direction

1) You should be able to minor sway into strikes the way you could sway into strikes pre patch. This isnt really abusable since they require way stricter timing. It would also mitigate the straight spam since dodging a 1-2 should be easy by minor swaying twice.

2) Jab should not be destroying the block.

The jab absolutely eats your block and that’s pretty fake. You should be able to walk through jabs with a high block.

[YourFatZebra]

Re: You're gonna patch the playerbase away

I have two main issues with the patch although it was huge step in the right direction

1) You should be able to minor sway into strikes the way you could sway into strikes pre patch. This isnt really abusable since they require way stricter timing. It would also mitigate the straight spam since dodging a 1-2 should be easy by minor swaying twice.

2) Jab should not be destroying the block.

The jab absolutely eats your block and that’s pretty fake. You should be able to walk through jabs with a high block.

Yeah not saying at all that the patch was terrible.

I feel the need to restate this so nobody gets confused (since we're pages from where I said it), I like most of the changes made with the patch. Whether I can play well with them or not, they are a step in the right direction as homie said here. I'm objective enough to recognize when something good is done for the game even if I struggle with it myself. I'm making a much larger point about the game, it's playerbase, it's lifespan and growth.

[Supreme_Bananas]

Re: You're gonna patch the playerbase away

Virtua Fighter, Street Fighter IV, Blaz Blue, Guilty Gear etc are all more complex.

One of these is not like the others...

[MartialMind]

Re: You're gonna patch the playerbase away

I guess the problem is just this the game don’t have a identity it is in a middleground between realistic and arcade... so we have realistic features like damage, strikes distance and combo physics ... and unrealistic thing like block shield, ultra sonic combo speed, stamina based on body strikes or opponent making u miss... all those things turn the game more complex that it should be...so in my point of view... if they decided to put the focus on realism the game would be better, if they decided to made it full arcade it would be better than it is now too...the problem is this middleground that some aspects works as an arcade game and somethings works as a realistic game...people will talk about balance bla bla bla... but how to archive balance if the game want to entertain 2 kinds of players... realistic players will always find it unbalanced because of the arcade aspects and the arcade gamers will think is unbalanced because realistic players can win by strategies not by full gaming skills...

I agree with you 100% and this is what i've personally been trying to stress.

When a realistic mechanic is added to the game, you have to add other realistic mechanics to balance it out or you'll have what we have now.

When I made the suggestion to remove the slow down on combos to allow combos to beat out head movement spam, I also asked and begged for footwork and movement buffs to make sure combos don't become a problem.

We are currently STILL arguing about whether footwork/movement buffs are needed because some people truly believe running is OP in this game and aggression isn't powerful enough. This has been debated and argued into the ground on this forum and among Gamechangers and we still don't agree on it.

So what we have now is a game that has some very powerful realistic elements but then doesn't balance that out with other realistic elements.

The fact is, in regards to Kickboxing:

- Combos are fast enough to beat the block and head movement which is why fighters block while they move their head, and even then it's usually not enough.
- What truly takes care of combos is footwork and movement.

Right now in the game, combos beat block, combos beat head movement (Unless you've learned the good old rotate the stick and make strikes miss tactic) but footwork is lacking, so a lot of people are getting run over by combos.

To balance this out, direct/indirect buffs to movement must be added, but again, this is an on-going debate, one we might all never fully agree on.

Your last point in bold is also very very important and one.

If footwork is buffed like it should, and players use that to avoid complex combos... certain high level players would consider it a lack of skill and hence call it unbalanced.... You hear them say it all the time... "Simply holding the stick and moving away is not skill". Meanwhile if the game was realistic and players who favor realism are able to apply real life logic to the game, they'd consider themselves skillful.

So all in all, like you've mentioned, this game needs to decide what it wants to be and then tell us. If it's not gonna be a realistic game, then I wanna know so i can go spend my time someplace else.

I sincerely believe realism leads to balance, but I don't wanna keep making realistic suggestions and indirectly hurting the game if artificial game mechanics are still gonna remain there screwing up the realistic elements that are implemented.

[YourFatZebra]

Re: You're gonna patch the playerbase away

When a realistic mechanic is added to the game, you have to add other realistic mechanics to balance it out or you'll have what we have now.

We are currently STILL arguing about whether footwork/movement buffs are needed because some people truly believe running is OP in this game and aggression isn't powerful enough. This has been debated and argued into the ground on this forum and among Gamechangers and we still don't agree on it.


Right now in the game, combos beat block, combos beat head movement (Unless you've learned the good old rotate the stick and make strikes miss tactic) but footwork is lacking, so a lot of people are getting run over by combos.

If footwork is buffed like it should, and players use that to avoid complex combos... certain high level players would consider it a lack of skill and hence call it unbalanced.... You hear them say it all the time... "Simply holding the stick and moving away is not skill". Meanwhile if the game was realistic and players who favor realism are able to apply real life logic to the game, they'd consider themselves skillful.

So all in all, like you've mentioned, this game needs to decide what it wants to be and then tell us. If it's not gonna be a realistic game, then I wanna know so i can go spend my time someplace else.

I sincerely believe realism leads to balance, but I don't wanna keep making realistic suggestions and indirectly hurting the game if artificial game mechanics are still gonna remain there screwing up the realistic elements that are implemented.

I've heard someone once say that Shroud, a top PUBG player, just "clicks people's heads." and I think that's a giant oversimplification. Same thing with what you just said others have said about footwork. Even as an aggressive fighter who's known to get raged up when someone's "running" from me, it happens so much in real life that it doesn't make sense for it not to be in the game. I don't have an Anderson poster on my wall because he was always getting walked down by hooks and whatnot. I'm happy at least that there is a conversation going on about this, because I feel like the footwork was overlooked. I've said before that the reason I engaged in what alot of people were calling the "sway spam" was trying to make up for the loss of extra footwork that I had in UFC 2. Flicking the LS in any direction doesn't do the same thing it did in that game, that was my replacement.

Your last two points there pretty much sum up everything I've said in a nutshell. If the game is going to be a realistic fighting simulator, which is what I would personally prefer even if it means that I would struggle to learn it, it needs to take the proper steps to do that. If it wants to be an arcade fighter it needs to be upfront about that.

I guess what I'm saying is that, if they keep being wishy washy about it and not committing one way or the other, they'll run off any new players or players that aren't devoted to the series already. If it's a realistic fighting simulator, you can market that and still gain a large player base with a complicated game. Look at something like League of Legends that has all sorts of layers of depth and still is popular. It just has to be clear and up front about what it is so that anyone getting into it isn't expecting one thing and ending up with another, or a mix of a few like we have right now.

[Zeta Reticulan1]

Re: You're gonna patch the playerbase away

I agree with you 100% and this is what i've personally been trying to stress.

When a realistic mechanic is added to the game, you have to add other realistic mechanics to balance it out or you'll have what we have now.

When I made the suggestion to remove the slow down on combos to allow combos to beat out head movement spam, I also asked and begged for footwork and movement buffs to make sure combos don't become a problem.

We are currently STILL arguing about whether footwork/movement buffs are needed because some people truly believe running is OP in this game and aggression isn't powerful enough. This has been debated and argued into the ground on this forum and among Gamechangers and we still don't agree on it.

So what we have now is a game that has some very powerful realistic elements but then doesn't balance that out with other realistic elements.

The fact is, in regards to Kickboxing:

- Combos are fast enough to beat the block and head movement which is why fighters block while they move their head, and even then it's usually not enough.
- What truly takes care of combos is footwork and movement.

Right now in the game, combos beat block, combos beat head movement (Unless you've learned the good old rotate the stick and make strikes miss tactic) but footwork is lacking, so a lot of people are getting run over by combos.

To balance this out, direct/indirect buffs to movement must be added, but again, this is an on-going debate, one we might all never fully agree on.

Your last point in bold is also very very important and one.

If footwork is buffed like it should, and players use that to avoid complex combos... certain high level players would consider it a lack of skill and hence call it unbalanced.... You hear them say it all the time... "Simply holding the stick and moving away is not skill". Meanwhile if the game was realistic and players who favor realism are able to apply real life logic to the game, they'd consider themselves skillful.

So all in all, like you've mentioned, this game needs to decide what it wants to be and then tell us. If it's not gonna be a realistic game, then I wanna know so i can go spend my time someplace else.

I sincerely believe realism leads to balance, but I don't wanna keep making realistic suggestions and indirectly hurting the game if artificial game mechanics are still gonna remain there screwing up the realistic elements that are implemented.

Spot on with what the issue is. The problem is you have a bunch of gamers who don't know enough to realize what they don't know...namely, that footwork requires skill and is a huge aspect of the game that is core to both the sweet science and MMA stand up in general.


Until these gamers are ready to learn that footwork isn't just "moving away" or "backing up" then we will never get the change that we need in regards to footwork. I think you and Aholbert need to educate the other gamechangers on the subtleties of footwork, and how large of a part it plays in both MMA and boxing.


Everything is set up by good footwork, and it is the FOUNDATION for all of the punches that come after. Footwork controls range for attack and defense, assists correct timing in attack and defense, and is core to evasion which is a significant part of defense strategy. It also allows you to cut off the ring & trap an opponent. So the footwork meta can be expanded and balanced for both sides with a sticky cage mechanic and trapping abilities for the aggressor as well.

[YourFatZebra]

Re: You're gonna patch the playerbase away

Everything is set up by good footwork, and it is the FOUNDATION for all of the punches that come after. Footwork controls range for attack and defense, assists correct timing in attack and defense, and is core to evasion which is a significant part of defense strategy. It also allows you to cut off the ring & trap an opponent. So the footwork meta can be expanded and balanced for both sides with a sticky cage mechanic and trapping abilities for the aggressor as well.

Which would be fantastic!

They would just have to stick to that. Currently the game sits in a weird state where SOME of it works realistically and the rest doesn't, countering what does. I don't want my argument to seem like I'm saying the game needs to be simplified. The conversation diverted off into an entirely different area than I intended for a moment. I'm just saying that if the game is going to be complex and realistic it needs to be that way all around so that there are no inconsistencies ruining the experience. It also needs to explain itself properly, which it currently doesn't. Without the aid of Youtube and other places it would be hard to be able to really learn the mechanics of the game on a deeper level. If the game is going to be complex, that's fine. It just needs to do that, own it, and it can still be equally as successful as if it decided to be an arcade fighter.

But this half in half out **** ain't gon' cut it. Not when I see the numbers that low on Xbox at least.

[aholbert32]

Re: You're gonna patch the playerbase away

Spot on with what the issue is. The problem is you have a bunch of gamers who don't know enough to realize what they don't know...namely, that footwork requires skill and is a huge aspect of the game that is core to both the sweet science and MMA stand up in general.


Until these gamers are ready to learn that footwork isn't just "moving away" or "backing up" then we will never get the change that we need in regards to footwork. I think you and Aholbert need to educate the other gamechangers on the subtleties of footwork, and how large of a part it plays in both MMA and boxing.


Everything is set up by good footwork, and it is the FOUNDATION for all of the punches that come after. Footwork controls range for attack and defense, assists correct timing in attack and defense, and is core to evasion which is a significant part of defense strategy. It also allows you to cut off the ring & trap an opponent. So the footwork meta can be expanded and balanced for both sides with a sticky cage mechanic and trapping abilities for the aggressor as well.

They dont need education. They know how important footwork is in real life. They dont care about hyper realism. They care primarily about balance than realism.

So even though everything you say is true when you talk about footwork that isnt their primary concern. Thats the divide that Henry and I and the other GC cant overcome.

For me (and I believe Henry), If its realistic...it should be in the game. Realism should be the first checkpoint for any feature addition or patch change. The others dont agree. They think it should be balance.

[YourFatZebra]

Re: You're gonna patch the playerbase away

They dont need education. They know how important footwork is in real life. They dont care about hyper realism. They care primarily about balance than realism.

So even though everything you say is true when you talk about footwork that isnt their primary concern. Thats the divide that Henry and I and the other GC cant overcome.

For me (and I believe Henry), If its realistic...it should be in the game. Realism should be the first checkpoint for any feature addition or patch change. The others dont agree. They think it should be balance.

Am I crazy for feeling like realism would have it's own balance?

I think alot of the issues that have been brought up could be fixed if the game would move steadily in one of those directions. There's a balance in realism that could be found if the options were added all around. If damage were higher then you wouldn't have to worry so much about changing head movement, blocking, or stamina. They could be adjusted but it wouldn't have to be the priority. If footwork were expanded you could have more options than just moving your head and it wouldn't be so abusable or so necessary.