Why HAPTIC FEEDBACK is NOT a cheat, is realistic, needed for all + How to evolve it

[RomeroXVII]

Re: Why HAPTIC FEEDBACK is NOT a cheat, is realistic, needed for all + How to evolve

I agree about SIDE minor lunge issue - BUT this issue is regardless of HF, it is on ITS OWN.
The issue - go to practice , record FAST LINEAR strike , jab for ex in ANY speed repeating - vs it just TAP LS up or down as fast as possible W CLOSED EYES = no one strike will hit you!!!
I said about dashes issues - Devs don’t want to listen!
This is all about Lunge’s issue, NOT about HF.

Haptic Feedback makes it easier to use the side lunges in that fashion. If you try to just casually flick up and down without knowing what is coming next, you're very likely to get punished by a hook.
Side minor lunges are an alternative to major lunges. But, IMHO, without assistance from Haptic Feedback they take much more skill to pull off in a live ranked fight.

Question SUGATA: Are you on PS4?

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[GrimLeiper]

Re: Why HAPTIC FEEDBACK is NOT a cheat, is realistic, needed for all + How to evolve

I have fought him MULTIPLE times. I am SUPER familiar with how he plays. I know his patterns, and I know his tendencies. You play him, and see how you do. His PSN is Ricohet90, played him in Welterweight when he has Nick Diaz. Enjoy it.

My earlier losses to him, on his main account was because I had no understanding of how he was able to catch everything, counter almost everything and Dodge everything. My stamina was decimated the first few times I fought him.

One thing you noticed I did, was constantly feinting. He likes to side lunge the straight strikes so I landed the body kicks because I was expecting him to side lunge a straight strike that I feinted, and that was how I made it work.


The question is, is that how you want every game to be played?

I'm not trying to belittle your efforts here. The fact you posted the video and urged everyone to watch it suggested to me the video will clearly highlight the issue with Haptic Feedback. For me, it really didn't. It was a good fight as far as I can see but I wasn't playing it. Although you yourself said it was a good fight at the end.

If that's the person who I think it is, they'd probably beat me without haptic feedback.

As for your post prior. If someone decides to play career mode with haptic feedback on and eventually starts playing in ranked, that really isn't cheating. Can I ask, how do we know it's for visually impaired people? Is it because someone has confirmed this, on this forum? Because guess what... the majority of players don't come on here.

Disabled spaces in supermarkets or wherever - people know why they're there. People know they're likely to get fined if caught parking there.

Does the game tell you to turn this off before going into ranked? Do players get fined for abusing this?

I'll be honest, my time throughout gaming communities and playing on all sorts of games over the years, leads me to believe "cheater" is thrown about far too much. You said it yourself, so many gamers (and not all of them are "casual") will build an argument for why something isn't fair, instead of putting time in to understand what's happening.

This alone makes me proceed with caution in any argument suggesting something is cheating.

We have people thinking it gives you preemptive information. It doesn't. That's impossible. It's these misunderstandings that lead to the word being thrown around willy nilly.

Sent from my HTC Desire 530 using Operation Sports mobile app

[RomeroXVII]

Re: Why HAPTIC FEEDBACK is NOT a cheat, is realistic, needed for all + How to evolve

I'm not trying to belittle your efforts here. The fact you posted the video and urged everyone to watch it suggested to me the video will clearly highlight the issue with Haptic Feedback. For me, it really didn't. It was a good fight as far as I can see but I wasn't playing it. Although you yourself said it was a good fight at the end.

If that's the person who I think it is, they'd probably beat me without haptic feedback.

As for your post prior. If someone decides to play career mode with haptic feedback on and eventually starts playing in ranked, that really isn't cheating. Can I ask, how do we know it's for visually impaired people? Is it because someone has confirmed this, on this forum? Because guess what... the majority of players don't come on here.

Disabled spaces in supermarkets or wherever - people know why they're there. People know they're likely to get fined if caught parking there.

Does the game tell you to turn this off before going into ranked? Do players get fined for abusing this?

I'll be honest, my time throughout gaming communities and playing on all sorts of games over the years, leads me to believe "cheater" is thrown about far too much. You said it yourself, so many gamers (and not all of them are "casual") will build an argument for why something isn't fair, instead of putting time in to understand what's happening.

This alone makes me proceed with caution in any argument suggesting something is cheating.

We have people thinking it gives you preemptive information. It doesn't. That's impossible. It's these misunderstandings that lead to the word be I thrown around willy nilly.

Sent from my HTC Desire 530 using Operation Sports mobile app

Most of the moderators and GameChangers that I have asked about Haptic Feedback have told me the same thing: It is a feature that was meant for the visually impaired to use.

Honestly, the fight itself was challenging because I felt I had to be on my A-Game because one or two mistakes can ruin me.

Basically it vibrates to one side if it will be a head strike, another for the body, and vibrates both sides if it will be a kick.
What changed this drastically, which separates it from the people who are visually impaired and who aren't is, you guess it: being able to SEE the strikes already PLUS having the vibration give you a warning of what's to come.

When I got beat the first few times initially during Spring Break, I wanted to figure out the weaknesses. I had my brother turn on his PS4, I explained to him how it worked (from what Ricohet90 himself told me) and asked for him to try to get adjusted to it so I can deal with it., and after a few days, he was basically playing me the same way as Ricohet90.

If you can see + have the vibration give you a heads up on what kind of strike is coming next, you are at an advantage. If you know a head strike is coming + plus you can see + and you have knowledge of a good counter evasive body combo to land, you will be draining your opponents stamina down as if he were throwing 200 strikes a round. There were fights where I threw 50 strikes in round one and was down to 65% Stam already because of my brother using those evasive techniques + combinations to drain stamina and cause hit reactions.

The one thing that helps counteract this, is feinting a LOT, but the one thing that SUGATA and I agree on, is that constant feints drain more stamina than it should.

I'm down for having the fight screen extremely blurred if you have Haptic Feedback on. Problem solved.

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[SUGATA]

Re: Why HAPTIC FEEDBACK is NOT a cheat, is realistic, needed for all + How to evolve

I don't even see how this is an issue ...to paraphase Jules winefield in pulp fiction - haptic feed back and 60 frames per second aren't in the same league , it ain't even in the same sport .

How can you compare knowing pre-emptively what strikes are coming to knowing how to even deny transitions cause you can see it better .

C'mon that's ridiculous . Like how are you even enjoying the game that way . You don't want to loose a single fight ?

I don't play ranked so it don't affect me but c'mon that's just plain cheating .

Sent from my Infinix X604 using Operation Sports mobile app

Again.

HF does NOT give you 100% knowledge of incoming strike level (no Psychomantis here) - it is SUBTLE and has many nuances for different strikes

60fps and low latency monitor - gives you minimum 2 TIMES more frames so you 2x better, 2x earlier, 2x brighter see and read ALL oppobents’s actions + HF is only for stand up striking, BUT with 60fps you get 2x more advantage EVERYWHERE, including GROUND and CLINCH GAME, 2x better trading initial grappling movement = 2x faster reaction to this!

This is much more “cheating” in ranked”!
HF is so minor against this!


Second. Visual reaction is MUCH FASTER then from reading vibration = much more profit from 60fps than from HF

HF is NOT pre-emptive! It starts soon (5+ frames) AFTER your strike started when you already see the initial move - this is not a cheat.

Guys, learn HF properties before start complaining on it.

[GrimLeiper]

Re: Why HAPTIC FEEDBACK is NOT a cheat, is realistic, needed for all + How to evolve

I'm gonna load the game up now and play a few offline against AI. Just for a better understanding, but I don't expect I'll change my mind unless I get frustrated by it.

I accept that more information gives players a better chance. But I don't think blurring the screen solves the problem. We don't move disabled parking spaces further away to discourage abuse of them.

Sent from my HTC Desire 530 using Operation Sports mobile app

[RomeroXVII]

Re: Why HAPTIC FEEDBACK is NOT a cheat, is realistic, needed for all + How to evolve

Again.

HF does NOT give you 100% knowledge of incoming strike level (no Psychomantis here) - it is SUBTLE and has many nuances for different strikes

60fps and low latency monitor - gives you minimum 2 TIMES more frames so you 2x better, 2x earlier, 2x brighter see and read ALL oppobents’s actions + HF is only for stand up striking, BUT with 60fps you get 2x more advantage EVERYWHERE, including GROUND and CLINCH GAME, 2x better trading initial grappling movement = 2x faster reaction to this!

This is much more “cheating” in ranked”!
HF is so minor against this!


Second. Visual reaction is MUCH FASTER then from reading vibration = much more profit from 60fps than from HF

HF is NOT pre-emptive! It starts soon (5+ frames) AFTER your strike started when you already see the initial move - this is not a cheat.

Guys, learn HF properties before start complaining on it.

Haptic Feedback + Visual Reaction = Is the problem.

It is meant for those who can't see, and it levels the playing field for them.

Listen to yourself.

If PS4 Pro + Low latency monitor gave THAT much of an advantage, then I technically speaking should have not been able to beat anybody who had that over me, when I was playing on a regular degular 8 ms TV.

[GrimLeiper]

Re: Why HAPTIC FEEDBACK is NOT a cheat, is realistic, needed for all + How to evolve

Haptic Feedback + Visual Reaction = Is the problem.

It is meant for those who can't see, and it levels the playing field for them.

Listen to yourself.

If PS4 Pro + Low latency monitor gave THAT much of an advantage, then I technically speaking should have not been able to beat anybody who had that over me, when I was playing on a regular degular 8 ms TV.

If Haptic Feedback is THAT much of an advantage, you shouldn't have won that fight.

Sent from my HTC Desire 530 using Operation Sports mobile app

[SUGATA]

Re: Why HAPTIC FEEDBACK is NOT a cheat, is realistic, needed for all + How to evolve

Haptic Feedback makes it easier to use the side lunges in that fashion. If you try to just casually flick up and down without knowing what is coming next, you're very likely to get punished by a hook.
Side minor lunges are an alternative to major lunges. But, IMHO, without assistance from Haptic Feedback they take much more skill to pull off in a live ranked fight.

Question SUGATA: Are you on PS4?

Sent from my SM-G965U using Operation Sports mobile app

1) How knowing High or Low level is the incoming strike (by HF) allows you to determine will it be linear (evades by Side lunge) or circular (not evades)?! (i.e. how HF helps your lunges?)

2) Have you tested Side lunge bug which i was talking about? this will help you to understood that here is a Lunge's problem, not HF!

3) HF does not make any help in evading by lunges - it does not tell you about strike's circularity/tracking.

4) PS4Pro, 60fps (performance mode in game options), gaming Sony PS 3D display 24" 1080p/60fps, standard DS4, Russia, Moscow, Putin's secret cyber lab.

5) Your problem is that you are exaggerating the HF's advantage... I am pretty sure that the most of russian top players (their names you can see in top of the leaderboard PS4) dont even know about HF existence (it is turned Off by deafult, and they never goes deep to game options). So, it does not assist them in becoming the top.
Meta knowledge, skill, experience (time spended), 60 fps are the main factors.

Motors are too close to each other in DS4, so even strong separate their vibration gives only _subtle_ feeling of the strike level from my pov. If you will remove them and pin to your l/r shoulder - then it gets more advantage.

[rabbitfistssaipailo]

Re: Why HAPTIC FEEDBACK is NOT a cheat, is realistic, needed for all + How to evolve

Dude let it go ...to each his own . As much as I respect sugata at this point Romero leave it alone . Let em do what they want ...one thing I know is you can't make it to the very top of leaderboards with that HP feedback .

Sent from my Infinix X604 using Operation Sports mobile app

[SUGATA]

Re: Why HAPTIC FEEDBACK is NOT a cheat, is realistic, needed for all + How to evolve

Haptic Feedback + Visual Reaction = Is the problem.

It is meant for those who can't see, and it levels the playing field for them.

Listen to yourself.

If PS4 Pro + Low latency monitor gave THAT much of an advantage, then I technically speaking should have not been able to beat anybody who had that over me, when I was playing on a regular degular 8 ms TV.

Dude, you forced me...

This IS your problem, NOT a HF:

https://forums.operationsports.com/f...post2049568952

[RomeroXVII]

Re: Why HAPTIC FEEDBACK is NOT a cheat, is realistic, needed for all + How to evolve

If Haptic Feedback is THAT much of an advantage, you shouldn't have won that fight.

Sent from my HTC Desire 530 using Operation Sports mobile app

If 60 FPS + PS4 Pro is THAT much of an advantage, I should have never been able to beat the people I beat with a regular TV.

See how that sounds? It doesn't dismiss things though.

I won because I figured out a way to deal with it, but this is the thing: That is what you're generally forced to do if you want to acquire victory. The Meta should not be forced to do one thing to beat another.

Remember Bobblehead Season and how you were forced to play if you wanted to win. You either had to concede to the bobbleheads or find another way. I never conceded.

It is what it is at this point.

[RomeroXVII]

Re: Why HAPTIC FEEDBACK is NOT a cheat, is realistic, needed for all + How to evolve

Dude let it go ...to each his own . As much as I respect sugata at this point Romero leave it alone . Let em do what they want ...one thing I know is you can't make it to the very top of leaderboards with that HP feedback .

Sent from my Infinix X604 using Operation Sports mobile app

Guess so bro. If they feel good about using a mechanic that was intended for the visually impaired just to get wins, then it is what it is.

[GrimLeiper]

Re: Why HAPTIC FEEDBACK is NOT a cheat, is realistic, needed for all + How to evolve

Guess so bro. If they feel good about using a mechanic that was intended for the visually impaired just to get wins, then it is what it is.

I think Sugata is labbing it, rather than resorting to it for wins.

I won a few online fights earlier with it on, but as I thought before, it's a learning curve - I didn't feel any benefits of it. Sorry if I ruined someone's day... actually, I'm not.

It's been introduced to allow visually impaired people to enjoy the game a little more. The only suggestion you've provided is to make it even harder for these people to see the screen. How is that a solution?

To avoid you potentially matching up against someone who "abuses" this, you're willing to say FU to the people who benefit from this feature the most.

Sent from my HTC Desire 530 using Operation Sports mobile app

[GrimLeiper]

Re: Why HAPTIC FEEDBACK is NOT a cheat, is realistic, needed for all + How to evolve

If 60 FPS + PS4 Pro is THAT much of an advantage, I should have never been able to beat the people I beat with a regular TV.

See how that sounds? It doesn't dismiss things though.

I won because I figured out a way to deal with it, but this is the thing: That is what you're generally forced to do if you want to acquire victory. The Meta should not be forced to do one thing to beat another.

Remember Bobblehead Season and how you were forced to play if you wanted to win. You either had to concede to the bobbleheads or find another way. I never conceded.

It is what it is at this point.

That's exactly the point I was making.

You're saying the advantages of the pro and a monitor aren't significant enough to be considered a "cheat", because you managed to beat people who used these advantages whilst you didn't...

Yet Haptic Feedback, is cheating, despite you beating someone using it. And you had the option of using it yourself.


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[RomeroXVII]

Re: Why HAPTIC FEEDBACK is NOT a cheat, is realistic, needed for all + How to evolve

That's exactly the point I was making.

You're saying the advantages of the pro and a monitor aren't significant enough to be considered a "cheat", because you managed to beat people who used these advantages whilst you didn't...

Yet Haptic Feedback, is cheating, despite you beating someone using it. And you had the option of using it yourself.


Sent from my HTC Desire 530 using Operation Sports mobile app

I did not say it was cheating with no ground to base it on. What I'm saying is, Haptic Feedback is for the visually disabled. That in itself is a fact.

When you have somebody who can see, and knows the advantages/disadvantages of Haptic Feedback, it also changes the way the Meta game is played. Now you're not playing to beat a person's character/playstyle, you're playing to beat a mechanic that was not intended for use of us able-bodied (able-eyed? ) guys.

A PS4 Pro and Monitor doesn't change the way the meta game is played, it is for gaming efficiency, but it doesn't break the game. You still have to have some form of skill to win fights, the monitor doesn't win it for you. With everything SUGATA listed about Haptic Feedback, put that in use with somebody who can see, and it's relatively devastating.

I understand from a certain perspective, being that there is no punishment per se for using it, people want to use it. However, I guess from my own point of view, I'm not down with exploiting a mechanic that was meant to make gaming a pleasurable experience for those who unfortunately have visual disablities.

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