Why can people play like terminators

[rabbitfistssaipailo]

Re: Why can people play like terminators

The separate stamina suggestion was mine actually. And in regards to that, I think the old human body meter is better. The left and right arm received damage depending on which one you blocked with, they could then be sort of targeted with subs as if you caught the redder one you were more likely to get a submission, etc. It was much more natural than this green bar. The block breaking process made more sense that way, it was much less gamey.

Sorry about that mate ...credit due you . Yeah I would like that too .

Sent from my Infinix X604 using Operation Sports mobile app

[Haz_____]

Re: Why can people play like terminators

The separate stamina suggestion was mine actually. And in regards to that, I think the old human body meter is better. The left and right arm received damage depending on which one you blocked with, they could then be sort of targeted with subs as if you caught the redder one you were more likely to get a submission, etc. It was much more natural than this green bar. The block breaking process made more sense that way, it was much less gamey.

Agreed. The paper doll was so much better, more intuitive, and less cluttered than having 6 seperate bars.

[Lauriedr1ver]

Re: Why can people play like terminators

Agreed. The paper doll was so much better, more intuitive, and less cluttered than having 6 seperate bars.

What about we push for full sim. Have no healtg bars or anything. Having a few more visual indicators would be great also but fights should look good without these indicators.

[janguv]

Re: Why can people play like terminators

I'm a newcomer to the game. Had UFC 2, but didn't play it online much, just 1v1 against a mate. And neither of us were spammers. So I'm coming to UFC 3 relatively fresh, and online play essentially a noob. I'm definitely seeing what people find frustrating about the pressure spammers.

That said, the tips by top players in here and on YouTube seem legit. My only problem? How to implement them, because I'm crap!

It does seem much easier to spam pressure than it does to read the combos well enough to slip/duck/lean/lunge & counter. Or maybe I'm just exceptionally bad.

It's not a new videogame experience though. My favourite football/soccer game (PES) massively nerfed ball control this year, and made pressing/tackling super effective. But the problem there that isn't analogous here is that it's super unrealistic, and the effective counters aren't very realistic either.

But on UFC 3 so far, I'm seeing that the guys who can counter pressure well fight with the tools you'd expect them, roughly, to be using in the real fight game too. So that's nice at least.

[Solid_Altair]

Re: Why can people play like terminators

I'm a newcomer to the game. Had UFC 2, but didn't play it online much, just 1v1 against a mate. And neither of us were spammers. So I'm coming to UFC 3 relatively fresh, and online play essentially a noob. I'm definitely seeing what people find frustrating about the pressure spammers.

That said, the tips by top players in here and on YouTube seem legit. My only problem? How to implement them, because I'm crap!

It does seem much easier to spam pressure than it does to read the combos well enough to slip/duck/lean/lunge & counter. Or maybe I'm just exceptionally bad.

It's not a new videogame experience though. My favourite football/soccer game (PES) massively nerfed ball control this year, and made pressing/tackling super effective. But the problem there that isn't analogous here is that it's super unrealistic, and the effective counters aren't very realistic either.

But on UFC 3 so far, I'm seeing that the guys who can counter pressure well fight with the tools you'd expect them, roughly, to be using in the real fight game too. So that's nice at least.

Playing the AI can help a lot. Most fighters don't use pressure like actual players, but you can still work on developing good habits.


Also, countering can frequently be done without so much specificity. You don't need to guess the direction and timing of a strike all the time so you counter them (with a slip). Instead, you can frequently use frame advantage (land your strike first) or play footsies (move back and forth to bait the opponent to miss or get overzelous trying to get close and end up running into your cross).

[RematchKing]

Re: Why can people play like terminators

So question for those NOT in favor of changes to the "Terminator" play style:

If the block was also nerfed either via even easier block breaks, or a universal "bleed through" damage for basically every strike that hits block, would you be in support of making the "Terminator" approach much more taxing on stamina?

I would be in full favor of block nerfs (blocking is not safe in MMA) in general, and especially if it meant also nerfing phone booth fighting. There are fighters out there who have a blitzing style IRL, and generally they either win in the first round or lose later in the fight. OR they adapt and slow their act down in the second. And I'm not talking about pressure fighters like the Diaz bros or Colby Covington, thats different. Pressure is different than the all out assault we see in UFC 3. Thats all I want to achieve here, to get that aspect of MMA properly represented. So even if there are ways to counter these "Terminators" (and there definitely is) thats not what I personally am pushing for. I want play styles to be more accurately represented, and with a nerfed block that "Terminator" style would still very much be dangerous in the first and some of the second round.

THIS! For some reason, people think we’re saying pressure shouldn’t be a thing, That’s not the issue. The issue is that people are doing things in the game and exploiting the fact that the stamina system does not punish people for playing this way. Every single person in this thread knows good and well that if a fighter went out there and did what these guys do, they’d be done after the first round if they didn’t get the KO because they’d be dead tired.

As it stands, Conor McGregor can pressure non stop with punches for the entire damn fight. Are you serious? This can be done with tons of fighters in the game too. It’s not like it’s just a few guys that can do it. Then with the knee elbow crap. Like come on! They freaking complained and got sways to cost stamina but you’re still able to stick to people like a siamese twin throwing punches and are able to go to the stool and get back up and do it again round after round? Get tf out of here with that crap. I can’t tell you how many times I’ve lost to dudes that I would have destroyed if the stamina system had done its job. Players are not rewarded for footwork and movement like they should be. Yes you can do it, but honestly, why would you when you risk getting KO’d if you lean or lunge the wrong way? Why do that when you can just walk forward and go berserk and win? The guys that do that two punch crap are another example of this. Yeah they’re only throwing two punches at a time, but they’re doing this non-stop.

We have been saying this needed to be changed for at least 6 months and instead of actually punishing these guys for this, they add these tiny changes to sways and whatnot as if that’s going to fix the issue of these guys being able to throw punches like an Agent in The Matrix. There is no reliable counter for the BS elbow and knee combos that Retracted mentioned and I completely agree. I just stood up and tried to do it and I couldn’t. I damn near fell on my ***. I’m pretty athletic and I rarely fall dude to my balance being so good from football and trying to do this still almost made me fall. There are a lot of tiny things that when exploited in the way they are, really suck the fun out of this game.

I could be enjoying a nice session and then I run into one of these guys. They’re just as annoying as the guys who literally do nothing but hold you down throwing tiny punches and blocking everything. They’re no better. It’s BS that you need to have a certain console or monitor to be able to actually compete with these dudes when they do this. Game should run at the same frame-rate regardless of the console.

[janguv]

Re: Why can people play like terminators

I just stood up and tried to do it and I couldn’t. I damn near fell on my ***. I’m pretty athletic and I rarely fall dude to my balance being so good from football and trying to do this still almost made me fall. There are a lot of tiny things that when exploited in the way they are, really suck the fun out of this game.

I'm not taking a definitive side on this general issue yet because I'm not experienced enough with the game online. But it does strike me that whether or not you personally can throw elbow/knee combos is a poor criterion for whether trained MMA guys can, and so for whether they should be replicable in the game.

Certainly, proper Muay Thai boxers can throw all sorts of elbow/knee combinations... The kind you'd expect even a healthy "athletic dude" not to be able to throw (there are always athletic newcomers to Muay Thai gyms, and their being athletic in certain ways very visibly doesn't endow them with form, muscle memory, the right kind of balance, and learned skills). My only issue would be whether UFC fighters can throw such combos well, since – on the whole – even among those who like to throw elbows and knees, the standard of Muay Thai technique is lamentable.

[RetractedMonkey]

Re: Why can people play like terminators

I'm not taking a definitive side on this general issue yet because I'm not experienced enough with the game online. But it does strike me that whether or not you personally can throw elbow/knee combos is a poor criterion for whether trained MMA guys can, and so for whether they should be replicable in the game.

Certainly, proper Muay Thai boxers can throw all sorts of elbow/knee combinations... The kind you'd expect even a healthy "athletic dude" not to be able to throw (there are always athletic newcomers to Muay Thai gyms, and their being athletic in certain ways very visibly doesn't endow them with form, muscle memory, the right kind of balance, and learned skills). My only issue would be whether UFC fighters can throw such combos well, since – on the whole – even among those who like to throw elbows and knees, the standard of Muay Thai technique is lamentable.

I'm a former MMA fighter with over 25 fights and lifelong experience with the sport. This combo goes against all body mechanics. You can definitely throw it without losing balance, but you won't BE balanced while throwing it. Does that make sense? There also isn't any power on the elbow when you're coming back into stance. There would have to be a slight pause before throwing it. Making it the definition of a soft combo in gameplay terms.

Now the elbow into knee combo is legit. Body mechanics work fine because you're loading the knee with your positioning after the elbow.

I will also note that you can easily do the knee-elbow combo in real life as long as you don't extend your knee (less power, less defense). You can lift your knee up to barely take you out of stance, but that's not how knees are generally thrown and it certainly isn't how the animation is in game. Not to mention that the knee will push/make someone back up, taking them out of elbow range. And since you were just on one leg, it isn't feasible to follow them with the elbow.

[janguv]

Re: Why can people play like terminators

I'm a former MMA fighter with over 25 fights and lifelong experience with the sport. This combo goes against all body mechanics. You can definitely throw it without losing balance, but you won't BE balanced while throwing it. Does that make sense? There also isn't any power on the elbow when you're coming back into stance. There would have to be a slight pause before throwing it. Making it the definition of a soft combo in gameplay terms.



Now the elbow into knee combo is legit. Body mechanics work fine because you're loading the knee with your positioning after the elbow.



I will also note that you can easily do the knee-elbow combo in real life as long as you don't extend your knee (less power, less defense). You can lift your knee up to barely take you out of stance, but that's not how knees are generally thrown and it certainly isn't how the animation is in game. Not to mention that the knee will push/make someone back up, taking them out of elbow range. And since you were just on one leg, it isn't feasible to follow them with the elbow.

I'll scan up the thread and see which combo specifically you're talking about. I didn't realise there was a particular one under discussion.

Edit: so I see it referenced a lot above, but since I'm new to the online, I've not experienced it yet (mercifully, from the sounds of it!). Has anyone got any videos of it?

[janguv]

Re: Why can people play like terminators

I'm a former MMA fighter with over 25 fights and lifelong experience with the sport. This combo goes against all body mechanics. You can definitely throw it without losing balance, but you won't BE balanced while throwing it. Does that make sense? There also isn't any power on the elbow when you're coming back into stance. There would have to be a slight pause before throwing it. Making it the definition of a soft combo in gameplay terms.



Now the elbow into knee combo is legit. Body mechanics work fine because you're loading the knee with your positioning after the elbow.



I will also note that you can easily do the knee-elbow combo in real life as long as you don't extend your knee (less power, less defense). You can lift your knee up to barely take you out of stance, but that's not how knees are generally thrown and it certainly isn't how the animation is in game. Not to mention that the knee will push/make someone back up, taking them out of elbow range. And since you were just on one leg, it isn't feasible to follow them with the elbow.

So I think I know the combo you guys are talking about now. This one, right? [Link redacted cos new member... Pretty sure it's the same one though]

Agree it's a bit ridiculous. Though I do think you could throw it with decent power irl so long as you timed a tiny step forward on the lead foot just as your rear one lands from the knee, and your rear one landing has to be very "bouncy" to build up the power in transitioning to the elbow.

More realistic would be falling into southpaw and throwing a lead elbow hook with the right. That feels much more natural.

[aholbert32]

Re: Why can people play like terminators

What about we push for full sim. Have no healtg bars or anything. Having a few more visual indicators would be great also but fights should look good without these indicators.

You are better off pushing for them to be optional (which they are already offline). That will never happen online even with more visual indicators. To many this is a game and they expect to have health bars. ****, I've seen some argue that its more sim to keep things like stamina bars because it tells you exactly how much stamina your fighter has (which they argue makes sense because you are that fighter) than having to guess simply by looking at animations that show that your fighter is tired.

[Lauriedr1ver]

Re: Why can people play like terminators

You are better off pushing for them to be optional (which they are already offline). That will never happen online even with more visual indicators. To many this is a game and they expect to have health bars. ****, I've seen some argue that its more sim to keep things like stamina bars because it tells you exactly how much stamina your fighter has (which they argue makes sense because you are that fighter) than having to guess simply by looking at animations that show that your fighter is tired.

Actually yeah that does make sense, but only for your own fighter. Yeah nevermind Im chatting ****.

[Painless taken]

Re: Why can people play like terminators

exactly there is just 0 reason to NOT march forward

This is totally false. It’s just people refuse to fight any other way

[Phillyboi207]

Re: Why can people play like terminators

I was just thinking... There was a tuner that changed the upper limits of the endurance rating so that people weren't recovering ridiculous amounts between rounds.

Is it possible to tune the upper weight classes (LHW,HW) so that it'd lowered even more?

Then tune the power( or atleast bleed through on strikes) overall for both weight classes.

I think that'd be a nice compromise. Guys complaining about unrealistic stamina/damage can stay in those weight classes while the competitive crowd could stick to lighter weights. Casual players would likely understand why the big slow guys can't throw 1000 strikes a fight as well.

Plus let's be real, LHWs tend to gas within 2 rounds unless known for their stamina and HWs will gas within 1 round if fighting at a fast pace.

[Lauriedr1ver]

Re: Why can people play like terminators

I was just thinking... There was a tuner that changed the upper limits of the endurance rating so that people weren't recovering ridiculous amounts between rounds.

Is it possible to tune the upper weight classes (LHW,HW) so that it'd lowered even more?

Then tune the power( or atleast bleed through on strikes) overall for both weight classes.

I think that'd be a nice compromise. Guys complaining about unrealistic stamina/damage can stay in those weight classes while the competitive crowd could stick to lighter weights. Casual players would likely understand why the big slow guys can't throw 1000 strikes a fight as well.

Plus let's be real, LHWs tend to gas within 2 rounds unless known for their stamina and HWs will gas within 1 round if fighting at a fast pace.

Splitting the fan base at bit there. Plus some people will prefer the slower pace but still like the unrealistic stamina. Being consitant with the gameplay is way forward.