Thoughts on the jab feint- body cross

[SUGATA]

Re: Thoughts on the jab feint- body cross

In the very first comment i posted here, I also reported thesame thing SUGATA is here. I too don't believe the feint is speeding up the body straight in anyway at all, and tests in Practice mode does prove it. But until a Dev comes in here and confirms it, we might never get down to the bottom of it.

To understand what the feint is doing, i think it's important to understand the logic behind the rule that was put in place. This rule is based on "Realism".

If a fighter wants to throw a forward moving jab followed by a forward moving straight to the body... He CANNOT maintain thesame range AND speed. One of those is always compromised.

When you lunge into the jab, to maintain range, you have to lunge again into the body straight and that takes away some speed. The only way to maintain speed is by lunging into the jab, planting and throwing the body straight.

Basically, It is physically impossible to maintain both speed and range when you go high and low on a forward moving combo.

When the game first dropped, we could do this, but then a change was implemented. If you wanna maintain range with this combo, you throw the forward moving jab, pause, then throw the forward moving straight. If you don't pause at all, the straight will fall short.

The jab feint is simply bypassing this rule. The feint is saying, "Well this wasn't a full jab, so i should maintain range when i fully commit to the body straight". But this is wrong.

It's not about the strike, it's about the lunge. Doesn't matter if you're lunging into a full jab, or lunging into a Jab feint.... once that lunge happens, you MUST pause and lunge again to maintain range.

Solution:

Just make it so the jab feint doesn't bypass the rule. Simple.

OK, lets talk about PLANTING or feinting during FWD Moving combos:


Dude, i am forced to disagree w you here.

Our input here is:
keep FWD Moving (holding LS toward the opponent, not "Lunge" click LS) +

#1. Jab into (W/O pause) Body cross - has a bit shorter ("planting) fwd step than WITH delay while maintaining fast speed as a Harc combo - yes.
Btw, if you made a pause - this will reset Hard combo counting, so the 2nd strike simply becomes your 1st moving strike so it regain its range (no planting). Feint was mentioned to use w/o pauses (while it get distraction to the opponent), so it is logical that Feint must to give an advantage w/o pauses before follow up strikes - this range increasing on FWD Moving becomes this advantage.
Why do you think that this is unrealistic and some guys are thinking it breaks gameplay (dont forget about feints stamina penalty equal to the full strike = balance)?

or

#2. Jab feint into (W/O pause) Body Cross - has a bit longer (no "planting") fwd step, with the same fast Speed as 1. - WHY do you think this is wrong and unrealistic? this is my question.

I think this IS realistic, so all is RIGHT now, b/c:
- there is a BIG difference between full and especially whiffed strike, which ended in weight unbalance and loosing weight transfer vector VS short light NOT accented Feint, which was pre-loaded for follow up weight transfer to next 2nd accented fwd moving strike.
- so , in #1 yes, you need a PAUSE (to balance weight) for longer 2nd move or w/o pause you get shorter but faster 2nd move - only something ONE, not both.
but
in #2 you do NOT NEED a PAUSE (not needed to balance your weight transfer, feint is not accented strike) to keep BOTH speed and range.

RESUME: now we have realistic and right Feint into strike behavior during FWD MOVING, too.

Example:

look on the 2nd follow up body cross on 2:30 - it has insane speed and range on follow up 2nd body punch

<iframe src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/HhYQ65C-_uQ?start=134" allow="accelerometer; autoplay; encrypted-media; gyroscope; picture-in-picture" allowfullscreen="" width="560" height="315" frameborder="0"></iframe>

[MartialMind]

Re: Thoughts on the jab feint- body cross

SUGATA.... Forgive me if i misunderstand anything you've written. It is not an easy task to understand you.

First i'll respond to this comment here.

Our input here is:
keep FWD Moving (holding LS toward the opponent, not "Lunge" click LS) +

When i use the word "Lunge" i'm referring to the "Animation". When you hold forward on your left stick and throw a jab, yes it is an advancing jab, but how do you perform a forward moving jab? Depending on how far you are away from the opponent, you either do it with a small step, or a bigger step.

I like to separate the two into "Stepping and Lunging" Jabs to make it easier to explain.

Stepping Jab:



Lunging Jab:



Now in the game, we actually don't have control over which type we throw. In a game like UD3, you could throw a regular stepping jab, or for some fighters, you could FLICK the left stick forward, then jab to throw a longer lunging jab like the one GSP threw there.

In the game though, flicking the left stick forward and throwing a Jab doesn't throw a "Lunging Jab"... I call that one the "Reaching Jab" because you're not actually advancing forward. A lunge implies moving from point A to point B. With this jab, You're reaching as far as you can with the jab with your lead leg but returning right back to where you started. THIS is not what i'm referring to when i "Lunge Into a jab"... so let's just get that part clear.

Now to the question you asked here:

#2. Jab feint into (W/O pause) Body Cross - has a bit longer (no "planting") fwd step, with the same fast Speed as 1. - WHY do you think this is wrong and unrealistic? this is my question.

I think it is wrong and unrealistic because it is.

Your argument is

in #2 you do NOT NEED a PAUSE (not needed to balance your weight transfer, feint is not accented strike) to keep BOTH speed and range.

"Feint is not accented strike" is really confusing to me. I'm not sure what you're trying to get across with the word "Accented" in there but if i understand you completely, you're arguing that because a "Feint is not a real strike with full commitment, a fighter won't need to balance their weight before proceeding".

Yes that would be true, if the feint, was a STATIONARY feint, or a feint done with very little step. Like the video you posted.



In the clip above, the fighter BARELY takes a forward step with the jab feint. Ofcourse he won't need to balance his weight again before lunging into the straight. I'd like to see him try that same sequence, but this time, do it like the game tries to sell it.



In the game, like you see above, you take a CLEAR forward step, same amount of step you'd take if you were to lunge into a jab, but then you just keep advancing forward, no pause to regain your balance. That is physically impossible. You can even clearly see the leg sliding forward in the above clip.

The fact that it was a feint, doesn't negate the fact that you took a clear step... You MUST Pause slightly before taking another. There's no way around that.

I'd like to see someone demonstrate that this is possible for me. You won't be able to.

After the initial step into that feint, GSP should pause slightly to balance his weight, before continuing into the body straight. That's the only way that sequence makes sense realistically.

Make sense?

[RomeroXVII]

Re: Thoughts on the jab feint- body cross

SUGATA.... Forgive me if i misunderstand anything you've written. It is not an easy task to understand you.

First i'll respond to this comment here.

Our input here is:
keep FWD Moving (holding LS toward the opponent, not "Lunge" click LS) +

When i use the word "Lunge" i'm referring to the "Animation". When you hold forward on your left stick and throw a jab, yes it is an advancing jab, but how do you perform a forward moving jab? Depending on how far you are away from the opponent, you either do it with a small step, or a bigger step.

I like to separate the two into "Stepping and Lunging" Jabs to make it easier to explain.

Stepping Jab:



Lunging Jab:



Now in the game, we actually don't have control over which type we throw. In a game like UD3, you could throw a regular stepping jab, or for some fighters, you could FLICK the left stick forward, then jab to throw a longer lunging jab like the one GSP threw there.

In the game though, flicking the left stick forward and throwing a Jab doesn't throw a "Lunging Jab"... I call that one the "Reaching Jab" because you're not actually advancing forward. A lunge implies moving from point A to point B. With this jab, You're reaching as far as you can with the jab with your lead leg but returning right back to where you started. THIS is not what i'm referring to when i "Lunge Into a jab"... so let's just get that part clear.

Now to the question you asked here:

#2. Jab feint into (W/O pause) Body Cross - has a bit longer (no "planting") fwd step, with the same fast Speed as 1. - WHY do you think this is wrong and unrealistic? this is my question.

I think it is wrong and unrealistic because it is.

Your argument is

in #2 you do NOT NEED a PAUSE (not needed to balance your weight transfer, feint is not accented strike) to keep BOTH speed and range.

"Feint is not accented strike" is really confusing to me. I'm not sure what you're trying to get across with the word "Accented" in there but if i understand you completely, you're arguing that because a "Feint is not a real strike with full commitment, a fighter won't need to balance their weight before proceeding".

Yes that would be true, if the feint, was a STATIONARY feint, or a feint done with very little step. Like the video you posted.



In the clip above, the fighter BARELY takes a forward step with the jab feint. Ofcourse he won't need to balance his weight again before lunging into the straight. I'd like to see him try that same sequence, but this time, do it like the game tries to sell it.



In the game, like you see above, you take a CLEAR forward step, same amount of step you'd take if you were to lunge into a jab, but then you just keep advancing forward, no pause to regain your balance. That is physically impossible. You can even clearly see the leg sliding forward in the above clip.

The fact that it was a feint, doesn't negate the fact that you took a clear step... You MUST Pause slightly before taking another. There's no way around that.

I'd like to see someone demonstrate that this is possible for me. You won't be able to.

After the initial step into that feint, GSP should pause slightly to balance his weight, before continuing into the body straight. That's the only way that sequence makes sense realistically.

Make sense?

@SUGATA

[Lauriedr1ver]

Re: Thoughts on the jab feint- body cross

@SUGATA

I think use are arguing different things. From what I am reading Sugata is talking about there being no difference in speed between a jab to body cross and jab feint to body cross. The animation is flawed yes but that is to do with tracking, this has been an issue since the start of the game with lunges.

[SUGATA]

Re: Thoughts on the jab feint- body cross

Martial_Mind, yes I see here is a problem but it is more in ANIMATION (leg transfer from stepping fwd feint or not feinted Jab into strike looks some unrealistic) but NOT in Gameplay (the distance for fwd moving feint-straight is realistic OK and similar to my video).
It seems may be only advancing Jab feint has this animation issue. It is a question to resources.

I am sure this is possibly to make advancing Jab feint w BIGGER STEP (b/c irl Jab feint is a very light and brief move so almost no effect on weights balance) and then into stepping straight.
You asked the video - it can take much time, I don’t want to waste it again for nothing (remember our discussion about catch punch into Clinch, when you asked for videos, and when I posted you gone).

https://forums.operationsports.com/forums/ea-sports-ufc/904773-catch-punch-into-clinch-parry-ea-ufc-3-a-5.html

[rabbitfistssaipailo]

Re: Thoughts on the jab feint- body cross

You can only block counter hooks/overhands that hit the lead side of your block, and body hooks with Uppercuts if you uppercut from the side you blocked the hook.

Question do you have to wait until they finish their combo to do the block counter ? I don't understand it's implementation

Sent from my Infinix X604 using Operation Sports mobile app

[rabbitfistssaipailo]

Re: Thoughts on the jab feint- body cross

After the reading the whole debate I'd say the culprits here are tracking and unrealistic animations .

Martial & Romero have been saying this for months ...but it appears there's no remedy in sight .

Sent from my Infinix X604 using Operation Sports mobile app

[1212headkick]

Re: Thoughts on the jab feint- body cross

Question do you have to wait until they finish their combo to do the block counter ? I don't understand it's implementation

Sent from my Infinix X604 using Operation Sports mobile app

input block have strike recorder throw overhand. youll notice your fighter will bring his arm up to block it. Release the input(hell still look like hes blocking) and input a lead hook. You got xbox brother?

[rabbitfistssaipailo]

Re: Thoughts on the jab feint- body cross

input block have strike recorder throw overhand. youll notice your fighter will bring his arm up to block it. Release the input(hell still look like hes blocking) and input a lead hook. You got xbox brother?

Nah PS4 ...I don't even play online ...network in my neck of the woods is funky . Planning to move out soon and get a better ISP .

I only played once ...was to nervous . So it's mostly offline with the bros ...and friends .

Sent from my Infinix X604 using Operation Sports mobile app

[Phillyboi207]

Re: Thoughts on the jab feint- body cross

input block have strike recorder throw overhand. youll notice your fighter will bring his arm up to block it. Release the input(hell still look like hes blocking) and input a lead hook. You got xbox brother?

It’s only lead hook? I thought it was same side regardless of lead/rear

[RomeroXVII]

Re: Thoughts on the jab feint- body cross

It’s only lead hook? I thought it was same side regardless of lead/rear

You can only counter with a block counter on the lead leg side, with a lead hook against other hooks or Overhands when it lands on the block. Block counters are unblockable, but can be swayed.

[Phillyboi207]

Re: Thoughts on the jab feint- body cross

You can only counter with a block counter on the lead leg side, with a lead hook against other hooks or Overhands when it lands on the block. Block counters are unblockable, but can be swayed.

Thanks

That explains why I’ve found then so inconsistent lol

[BigSmoke]

Re: Thoughts on the jab feint- body cross

Uppercuts I find work the best.. guys that do it are pretty easy to get the timing down for, even the high level guys. You just have to have your blocking and footwork on point to frustrate them and draw them towards you for that well timed uppercut counter or else the guys really good at it will chew up your stamina fast.

In my experience, an above average blocking and defensive game along with some patience works wonders against these guys as long as you don't let them frustrate you.

[Good Grappler]

Re: Thoughts on the jab feint- body cross

What if Sugata turned out to be like an absolute monster on this game? Like he just signs up for ESFL and smokes everyone. Proves that everything he’s ever posted is 100% correct.

[RomeroXVII]

Re: Thoughts on the jab feint- body cross

What if Sugata turned out to be like an absolute monster on this game? Like he just signs up for ESFL and smokes everyone. Proves that everything he’s ever posted is 100% correct.

Lmao I'd love to see that happen.