Thoughts on the jab feint- body cross

[SUGATA]

Re: Thoughts on the jab feint- body cross

Speaking of copycats:

https://youtu.be/N3I8lcSLofw

And for those who still don't understand the issue, watch how fast and how quick the distance is closed with the jab body cross feint at 13:43 from the Weidman player. Nobody is sliding forward like that IRL, to get that result in game you have to input the body cross at a specific time.

Weidman did 2 feints in a row: FWD moving body jab Feint > straight Feint... this is totally USELESS, b/c:
= he moved on to the same distance as he could with 2 fwd dash or 1 fwd lunge

- he loosed much more ST Stamina on that, much more than from Lunge

- he was very Vulnerable during this moves, much more than during Lunge

What is the profit from this for him?

And i AGREE that the ANIMATION for some fwd moving Feints (like this for ex) is NOT realistic. But ONLY an animation.

[RomeroXVII]

Re: Thoughts on the jab feint- body cross

Weidman did 2 feints in a row: FWD moving body jab Feint > straight Feint... this is totally USELESS, b/c:
= he moved on to the same distance as he could with 2 fwd dash or 1 fwd lunge

- he loosed much more ST Stamina on that, much more than from Lunge

- he was very Vulnerable during this moves, much more than during Lunge

What is the profit from this for him?

And i AGREE that the ANIMATION for some fwd moving Feints (like this for ex) is NOT realistic. But ONLY an animation.

The profit is closing the distance much faster due to said 'animation'.

Body straight has evasive properties (against the jabs and straights), whereas the forward lunge is telegraphed much easier and you run the risk of getting front kicked, and the inconsistency of the animation at one time being at a normal pace vs another pace, messes up the counter window (where you say they are vulnerable) and by you trying to preemptively counter by seeing them 'animation speed up) to you (say by using the Uppercut), you lose long term stam, which is worse than short term, and on top of that whiffed strike, they generally can land a free body hook or even another straight before the body hook, WHILE your stamina is recovering from the whiffed strike, so it does more damage + affects your stamina long term. There is more reward than risk from doing this, and it's generally the safest thing to do in this day an age.

This is why I say SUGATA, look, knowing all of data frames and all of that is fun, I myself take a look at the frame data that GPD posted, but to actually see how certain things and playstyles work effectively, is in a Competitive setting i.e. Ranked Championships.

If possible, I would like for you to fight EdParker02, and see how effective the style is + I would like for you to 'expose' where he is vulnerable with said 'useless' move

Sent from my SM-G965U using Operation Sports mobile app

[SUGATA]

Re: Thoughts on the jab feint- body cross

The profit is closing the distance much faster due to said 'animation'.

Body straight has evasive properties (against the jabs and straights), whereas the forward lunge is telegraphed much easier and you run the risk of getting front kicked, and the inconsistency of the animation at one time being at a normal pace vs another pace, messes up the counter window (where you say they are vulnerable) and by you trying to preemptively counter by seeing them 'animation speed up) to you (say by using the Uppercut), you lose long term stam, which is worse than short term, and on top of that whiffed strike, they generally can land a free body hook or even another straight before the body hook, WHILE your stamina is recovering from the whiffed strike, so it does more damage + affects your stamina long term. There is more reward than risk from doing this, and it's generally the safest thing to do in this day an age.

This is why I say SUGATA, look, knowing all of data frames and all of that is fun, I myself take a look at the frame data that GPD posted, but to actually see how certain things and playstyles work effectively, is in a Competitive setting i.e. Ranked Championships.

If possible, I would like for you to fight EdParker02, and see how effective the style is + I would like for you to 'expose' where he is vulnerable with said 'useless' move

Sent from my SM-G965U using Operation Sports mobile app

Glad to hear concrete arguments from you) I will test it with precise and post results here...

[RomeroXVII]

Re: Thoughts on the jab feint- body cross

Glad to hear concrete arguments from you) I will test it with precise and post results here...

Thank you. If possible, I can do a fight with you as well to replicate.

[SUGATA]

Re: Thoughts on the jab feint- body cross

Thank you. If possible, I can do a fight with you as well to replicate.

Man, it will not clear anything b/c of lag/delay between us (Moscow vs US).

The only true way to test - offline.

[RomeroXVII]

Re: Thoughts on the jab feint- body cross

Man, it will not clear anything b/c of lag/delay between us (Moscow vs US).

The only true way to test - offline.

There's a good Russian player named Opkolopukos, if you can get him to replicate it, that can work too.

Sent from my SM-G965U using Operation Sports mobile app

[SUGATA]

Re: Thoughts on the jab feint- body cross

The profit is closing the distance much faster due to said 'animation'.

Body straight has evasive properties (against the jabs and straights), whereas the forward lunge is telegraphed much easier and you run the risk of getting front kicked, and the inconsistency of the animation at one time being at a normal pace vs another pace, messes up the counter window (where you say they are vulnerable) and by you trying to preemptively counter by seeing them 'animation speed up) to you (say by using the Uppercut), you lose long term stam, which is worse than short term, and on top of that whiffed strike, they generally can land a free body hook or even another straight before the body hook, WHILE your stamina is recovering from the whiffed strike, so it does more damage + affects your stamina long term. There is more reward than risk from doing this, and it's generally the safest thing to do in this day an age.

This is why I say SUGATA, look, knowing all of data frames and all of that is fun, I myself take a look at the frame data that GPD posted, but to actually see how certain things and playstyles work effectively, is in a Competitive setting i.e. Ranked Championships.

If possible, I would like for you to fight EdParker02, and see how effective the style is + I would like for you to 'expose' where he is vulnerable with said 'useless' move

Sent from my SM-G965U using Operation Sports mobile app

Tested now.

You are right partially.

Results:

The best tool is FWD Moving Body Jab FEINT - it has >= Range and less ST Stamina cost than other variants of Feints (FWD Moving Jab/Straight/body Straight).

Lets compare FWD Moving Body Jab feint VS (not blocking) FWD Lunge
(Blocking Lunge is worse b/c shorter range and 8frames delay penalty before launching strike from it):

+ bit longer range

+ twice less ST Stamina cost (paradox! need fixing!)

= the same follow up strike startup (no delay before it starts) but ONLY IF follow up strike IS a part of Hard Combo (example, 1-2)

= almost has no evasive properties b/c i am sure body punch has it on 2nd half of its startup (not cancellable).

- can not to Blocking during it

- has increased Vulnerability, more risky

P.S. FWD Lunge range is scaling depends on the distance to the opponent (closer to the opponent = has more range) - btw this is WRONG too! b/c is unrealistic and makes difficult for zoning by Lunges.

RESUME: i agree, that it needs to be fixed (by buffering and fixing FWD Lunge and some tuning FWD Jab/straight feints too).

[SUGATA]

Re: Thoughts on the jab feint- body cross

Romero, and the main con of this Fwd moving strike feint tactics is that this is STILL a 100% Fwd moving strike (no matter feinted or not), so with all this one cons. Fwd lunge does NOT have such cons!

How to solve this tactics - check and try VS FWD Moving Strike section in my thread:

https://forums.operationsports.com/forums/ea-sports-ufc/942104-vs-tactics-list-stand-up.html

And then please post your results here, how it works.

[1212headkick]

Re: Thoughts on the jab feint- body cross

Its not just jab feints its the entire combo system. Test the following

Body kick feint headkick(lvl 5 kbox)
Lead roundhouse spinning back fist
Hook or jab spinning kick
Front kick to ? Mark kick. We have a guy named spider whos whole style revolves around exploiting feint speed.

[SUGATA]

Re: Thoughts on the jab feint- body cross

Romero, and the main con of this Fwd moving strike feint tactics is that this is STILL a 100% Fwd moving strike (no matter feinted or not), so with all this one cons. Fwd lunge does NOT have such cons!

How to solve this tactics - check and try VS FWD Moving Strike section in my thread:

https://forums.operationsports.com/forums/ea-sports-ufc/942104-vs-tactics-list-stand-up.html

And then please post your results here, how it works.

RomeroXVII, comrade, have you tried this? what are your results?

[RomeroXVII]

Re: Thoughts on the jab feint- body cross

RomeroXVII, comrade, have you tried this? what are your results?

I was going to ask you, what would you recommend as the ideal move to interrupt somebody who uses the body Straight feint to speed up to your body?

For me, the best things I've found is the rear uppercut if they don't feint it, if they do feint it to get the reaction of you whiffing the uppercut, the ideal thing to do seems to be the feint the rear uppercut, and land the lead uppercut instead.

Another one that seems to work is a lead body front kick/lead knee, but not everybody has that.

[rabbitfistssaipailo]

Re: Thoughts on the jab feint- body cross

You can only block counter hooks/overhands that hit the lead side of your block, and body hooks with Uppercuts if you uppercut from the side you blocked the hook.

The block counters only work for single shots right? not combinations thrown by opponents , the first of which lands on your lead side right ?





Sent from my Infinix X604 using Operation Sports mobile app

[RomeroXVII]

Re: Thoughts on the jab feint- body cross

The block counters only work for single shots right? not combinations thrown by opponents , the first of which lands on your lead side right ?





Sent from my Infinix X604 using Operation Sports mobile app

The block counters for the head strikes can only be done against:

Hooks
Overhands


That land on your lead leg side of the block, and you counter with the hook from the side that you blocked the strike.

It doesn't matter if it's the first strike or the third strike, if it is a hook or an overhand landed on the lead side of your block, you can hit the block counter if timed correctly. In my last live stream you'll see me hit it consistently on Ranked.

Sent from my SM-G965U using Operation Sports mobile app

[1212headkick]

Re: Thoughts on the jab feint- body cross

Its even faster to feint the jab moving backwards then do the straight moving forwards. Its more than this one combo

[RomeroXVII]

Re: Thoughts on the jab feint- body cross

Tested now.

You are right partially.

Results:

The best tool is FWD Moving Body Jab FEINT - it has >= Range and less ST Stamina cost than other variants of Feints (FWD Moving Jab/Straight/body Straight).

Lets compare FWD Moving Body Jab feint VS (not blocking) FWD Lunge
(Blocking Lunge is worse b/c shorter range and 8frames delay penalty before launching strike from it):

+ bit longer range

+ twice less ST Stamina cost (paradox! need fixing!)

= the same follow up strike startup (no delay before it starts) but ONLY IF follow up strike IS a part of Hard Combo (example, 1-2)

= almost has no evasive properties b/c i am sure body punch has it on 2nd half of its startup (not cancellable).

- can not to Blocking during it

- has increased Vulnerability, more risky

P.S. FWD Lunge range is scaling depends on the distance to the opponent (closer to the opponent = has more range) - btw this is WRONG too! b/c is unrealistic and makes difficult for zoning by Lunges.

RESUME: i agree, that it needs to be fixed (by buffering and fixing FWD Lunge and some tuning FWD Jab/straight feints too).

Practice mode doesn't allow for the AI to utilize get, which affects testing how it ignores the range reduction when backing up from a jab body Straight. When you back up from a jab body straight, combo or not, it will not track, when you use the feint with proper timing, it literally slides you much further than the intended distance.