Thoughts on the jab feint- body cross

[Haz____]

Re: Thoughts on the jab feint- body cross

You can have a deep understand of mechanics without necessarily having the skill to use them. There are many coaches in MMA for example with a deep understanding of Martial Arts, and are amazing coaches, but weren't great competitors themselves.

[Good Grappler]

Re: Thoughts on the jab feint- body cross

You can have a deep understand of mechanics without necessarily having the skill to use them. There are many coaches in MMA for example with a deep understanding of Martial Arts, and are amazing coaches, but weren't great competitors themselves.

Difference is, if you understand the game, you should be able to compete at a high level. Because knowledge is all that matters in a game.

Whereas in real life, you also have to have physical talents. So someone may be an MMA genius, but he’s not physically capable of competing with the elite.

When it comes to EA UFC 3, I absolutely believe that to partake in discussions about competitive, high level meta, you have to be a top player. I’m not saying you can’t participate in discussion at all unless you’re good. But you shouldn’t inject your opinions as truth, because it just detracts from the productivity of the discussion. This is sort of my (and many others) issue with sugata. He’s talking about things that basically, unless he’s truly elite, he shouldn’t be talking about.

[Haz____]

Re: Thoughts on the jab feint- body cross

I disagree strongly.

I think the guy that has been playing fighting games hardcore for a decade, and has literal journals full of notes and data, and obviously dedicates a ton of time to labbing and figuring out precisely how things work is an asset to the community.

[HereticFighter]

Re: Thoughts on the jab feint- body cross

Difference is, if you understand the game, you should be able to compete at a high level. Because knowledge is all that matters in a game.

Whereas in real life, you also have to have physical talents. So someone may be an MMA genius, but he’s not physically capable of competing with the elite.

When it comes to EA UFC 3, I absolutely believe that to partake in discussions about competitive, high level meta, you have to be a top player. I’m not saying you can’t participate in discussion at all unless you’re good. But you shouldn’t inject your opinions as truth, because it just detracts from the productivity of the discussion. This is sort of my (and many others) issue with sugata. He’s talking about things that basically, unless he’s truly elite, he shouldn’t be talking about.

you can't teach reaction time. all the knowledge in the world doesn't really equate to playing at a high level necessarily

[Lauriedr1ver]

Re: Thoughts on the jab feint- body cross

Difference is, if you understand the game, you should be able to compete at a high level. Because knowledge is all that matters in a game.

Whereas in real life, you also have to have physical talents. So someone may be an MMA genius, but he’s not physically capable of competing with the elite.

When it comes to EA UFC 3, I absolutely believe that to partake in discussions about competitive, high level meta, you have to be a top player. I’m not saying you can’t participate in discussion at all unless you’re good. But you shouldn’t inject your opinions as truth, because it just detracts from the productivity of the discussion. This is sort of my (and many others) issue with sugata. He’s talking about things that basically, unless he’s truly elite, he shouldn’t be talking about.

I'd say I have a good understanding of the mechanics of the game, better than most, but Im genuinely not very good at it. Having knowledge is one thing and being able to use that is different.

Also anyone can argue for changes based on other things that do not involve their ability at all, talking about stamina, accuracy and takedowns are three topics that really do not require any skill in the game, only knowledge of real life mma as well as the game at the minute.

[SUGATA]

Re: Thoughts on the jab feint- body cross

Difference is, if you understand the game, you should be able to compete at a high level. Because knowledge is all that matters in a game.

Whereas in real life, you also have to have physical talents. So someone may be an MMA genius, but he’s not physically capable of competing with the elite.

When it comes to EA UFC 3, I absolutely believe that to partake in discussions about competitive, high level meta, you have to be a top player. I’m not saying you can’t participate in discussion at all unless you’re good. But you shouldn’t inject your opinions as truth, because it just detracts from the productivity of the discussion. This is sort of my (and many others) issue with sugata. He’s talking about things that basically, unless he’s truly elite, he shouldn’t be talking about.

There are no a correlation between time spend on ranked online battles and how far you know the game mechanics. This is 100%.

But lets make things more personal now:

Ok, lets clear thing up.

GPD , for example, does know everything about the game, much more than anyone here.

Does it make his an Elite top player, better that anyone here?

I think, no.

Why?

He does not spend so much time in online fights. He is older (40+), has many things to do besides the game, btw as myself ( i am 40).

But everyone here are asking HIM! Not a top player for solutions, tips, game info, tens of likes under his answers... Paradox! What is the difference?

I played EA UFC 1 and 2 - red belts. I liked these games BUT they had some gameplay broken things that i realy dont like and stopped to spend my time (stopped rising Leaderboard).

But this time, with EA UFC 3 i am not playing much online for now. This have some personal reasons:
1. Lack of Time
2. Job
3. Family
4. The MAIN reason = i dont want to play UNFINISHED game THIS time, i dont want to play the game w mechanics i dont like (for this you need to DISCOVER and know this)... So, all my time reserved for EA UFC 3 was spended on exploring/learning the game mechanics.
the current 1.13 game is closed to its brightness, to its completeness and good deep mechanics.
I really like it NOW.

So, NOW (with 1.13) i have STARTED spend more time in playing it. UNLIKE prev 1-2 parts. I have not saw any reasons to rush. Much better to learn than to button mashing and learn others mistakes w/o acknowledge base of the game mechanics. I dont think UFC 4 is upcoming soon.

So, you dont need to wait for long. Patience, and Peace =)

Also, i hope the challenge/ players level will keep rising too now (as i said i am going to post my EA UFC 3 Game mechanics compilation, it just requires some more time to polish). I am 100% sure many of "top players" here will find MANY useful and helpful info in it. And btw, i was doing it for myself, but I do not mind sharing this, even after such personal posts from some persons lol.

[Good Grappler]

Re: Thoughts on the jab feint- body cross

you can't teach reaction time. all the knowledge in the world doesn't really equate to playing at a high level necessarily

Yes it can and it does. Reaction time isn’t that important. Any average human being has adequate reaction time to play EA UFC 3 effectively

[Good Grappler]

Re: Thoughts on the jab feint- body cross

I disagree strongly.

I think the guy that has been playing fighting games hardcore for a decade, and has literal journals full of notes and data, and obviously dedicates a ton of time to labbing and figuring out precisely how things work is an asset to the community.

Then he should be a high level player. Otherwise, some of them notes aren’t too accurate.

[Papadoc60]

Re: Thoughts on the jab feint- body cross

Then he should be a high level player. Otherwise, some of them notes aren’t too accurate.

You're right here. Just because he has labbed other games doesn't mean he understands the game mechanics of this game. Reading his notes won't teach you jack **** to be honest and it's mainly a lot of conjecture mixed with a weird focus on super irrelevant details that aren't even usually accurate. No one should go to Sugata for advice on how the game plays or how it works.


So many people are constantly inserting their opinion and it's just not very valuable because they don't know how to play the game the way it was made to be played. This can come off as really pretentious, and in a forum setting where the whole purpose is to communicate about this game it is going to hurt some peoples feelings but it's true. I know this game inside and out, I've finished #1 the last two seasons of ranked and the stuff I see people saying on here blows my mind sometimes.



I guarantee if he spent a quarter of the time he uses writing those irrelevant notes on ranked actually playing the game trying to actively learn what is happening he would not just be better at the game he would UNDERSTAND it better. This might come off as harsh, but the guy is just rude as hell if you don't 100% agree with him too. If you intimately understand vulnerability, grapple advantage, how to get takedowns, how to pressure without getting damaged, what positions are most dominant and how to effectively escape those positions you would destroy 90% of players without that much practice.


The skill gap between the top 10 players and the rest of the game is absurd tbh and it's a knowledge based skill gap

[SUGATA]

Re: Thoughts on the jab feint- body cross

You're right here. Just because he has labbed other games doesn't mean he understands the game mechanics of this game. Reading his notes won't teach you jack **** to be honest and it's mainly a lot of conjecture mixed with a weird focus on super irrelevant details that aren't even usually accurate. No one should go to Sugata for advice on how the game plays or how it works.


So many people are constantly inserting their opinion and it's just not very valuable because they don't know how to play the game the way it was made to be played. This can come off as really pretentious, and in a forum setting where the whole purpose is to communicate about this game it is going to hurt some peoples feelings but it's true. I know this game inside and out, I've finished #1 the last two seasons of ranked and the stuff I see people saying on here blows my mind sometimes.



I guarantee if he spent a quarter of the time he uses writing those irrelevant notes on ranked actually playing the game trying to actively learn what is happening he would not just be better at the game he would UNDERSTAND it better. This might come off as harsh, but the guy is just rude as hell if you don't 100% agree with him too. If you intimately understand vulnerability, grapple advantage, how to get takedowns, how to pressure without getting damaged, what positions are most dominant and how to effectively escape those positions you would destroy 90% of players without that much practice.


The skill gap between the top 10 players and the rest of the game is absurd tbh and it's a knowledge based skill gap

Not true.

1) Personal - i respect other's suggestion WHEN it was said w/o flame/trolling and is informative with real facts. not just "i know b/c i know". I never "rude: on those who disagree w me, just b/c they disagree. This is not true.

2) From my point of view,
SUCCESS in EA UFC =
40% META Knowledge (game mechanics) - you need to know game fundamentals, your "understand vulnerability, grapple advantage, how to get takedowns, how to pressure without getting damaged, what positions are most dominant and how to effectively escape those positions"
+
10% Animation recognition/reading - just with time practice
+
10% Reaction - not possible to train
+
20% Lag/ping/ISP quality (especially pocket losses) - not possible to "train" especially between different regions like USA vs Russia
+
10% Training (creating effective scripts and patterns) - requires Meta knowledge.

RESUME:
the best way to learn the game imho
1 step - learn Meta
2 step - Training Core mechanics
3 step - Create effective scripts and patterns
4. Practice in Online lag conditions.
So, 1 step - knowing META is one the most important element.

And btw, your rank DOES NOT MATTER at all - this is NOT a criteria of your TRUE SKILL! This is just your ego, nothing more. Why? b/c it depends on many things besides your true skill - time spended online (fights qty), your selected fighter (high OVR usually, btw i never played high OVR fighters!), your opponents , abuse game exploits and bugs (for me was boring to play the same way again and again, and if the game was not deep and does not provide a large variety of game styles i dropped it), etc.

Do you know whom from top players i respect more? Martial Mind, even when i sometimes disagree and discuss w him! Do you know WHY? b/c for him MORE important to get a variety and new feelings from the game, discover new styles (by playing with a whole roster including underdogs) - he want TO PLAY the game, NOT to post here his EGO and poke his rating/rank to your face! We have just different priorities with you - for me rank/stats is nothing.
and I don't care what someone think of me - so i not afraid to post unpopular threads when i think this can help for the game to get better.

[Papadoc60]

Re: Thoughts on the jab feint- body cross

Not true.

1) Personal - i respect other's suggestion WHEN it was said w/o flame/trolling and is informative with real facts. not just "i know b/c i know". I never "rude: on those who disagree w me, just b/c they disagree. This is not true.

2) From my point of view,
SUCCESS in EA UFC =
40% META Knowledge (game mechanics) - you need to know game fundamentals, your "understand vulnerability, grapple advantage, how to get takedowns, how to pressure without getting damaged, what positions are most dominant and how to effectively escape those positions"
+
10% Animation recognition/reading - just with time practice
+
10% Reaction - not possible to train
+
20% Lag/ping/ISP quality (especially pocket losses) - not possible to "train" especially between different regions like USA vs Russia
+
10% Training (creating effective scripts and patterns) - requires Meta knowledge.

RESUME:
the best way to learn the game imho
1 step - learn Meta
2 step - Training Core mechanics
3 step - Create effective scripts and patterns
4. Practice in Online lag conditions.
So, 1 step - knowing META is one the most important element.

And btw, your rank DOES NOT MATTER at all - this is NOT a criteria of your TRUE SKILL! This is just your ego, nothing more. Why? b/c it depends on many things besides your true skill - time spended online (fights qty), your selected fighter (high OVR usually, btw i never played high OVR fighters!), your opponents , abuse game exploits and bugs (for me was boring to play the same way again and again, and if the game was not deep and does not provide a large variety of game styles i dropped it), etc.

Do you know whom from top players i respect more? Martial Mind, even when i sometimes disagree and discuss w him! Do you know WHY? b/c for him MORE important to get a variety and new feelings from the game, discover new styles (by playing with a whole roster including underdogs) - he want TO PLAY the game, NOT to post here his EGO and poke his rating/rank to your face! We have just different priorities with you - for me rank/stats is nothing.
and I don't care what someone think of me - so i not afraid to post unpopular threads when i think this can help for the game to get better.

Obviously being ranked #1 doesn't mean you are the best player, but you won't get there without knowing the game intimately and it's annoying to see people post without the correct knowledge because it dilutes the feedback and makes it less reliable.

Saying it doesn't matter at all isn't true, because if you can get ranked top 10 in ranked you can probably beat the top 10 guys at least some of the time. That would make you a good player that likely understands the game.

[Haz____]

Re: Thoughts on the jab feint- body cross

Ok, lets clear thing up.

GPD , for example, does know everything about the game, much more than anyone here.

Does it make his an Elite top player, better that anyone here?

I think, no.

Why?

That sums up right there.

People just wanna bring their ego into the forums, and can't look past it. It's clear as day to me.

This is easily 1 of the most toxic forums I've ever been apart of. And I've spent yeeeaaars on many others, including MTGSalvation, MTGTheSource, StormBoards, Paragon & SMITE forums, SBN forums. The way people act here and how they treat others is honestly just wild to me. I'm sure if most of you had it your way, this would be a "Top 100 players only" forum.

[rabbitfistssaipailo]

Re: Thoughts on the jab feint- body cross

Not true.

1) Personal - i respect other's suggestion WHEN it was said w/o flame/trolling and is informative with real facts. not just "i know b/c i know". I never "rude: on those who disagree w me, just b/c they disagree. This is not true.

2) From my point of view,
SUCCESS in EA UFC =
40% META Knowledge (game mechanics) - you need to know game fundamentals, your "understand vulnerability, grapple advantage, how to get takedowns, how to pressure without getting damaged, what positions are most dominant and how to effectively escape those positions"
+
10% Animation recognition/reading - just with time practice
+
10% Reaction - not possible to train
+
20% Lag/ping/ISP quality (especially pocket losses) - not possible to "train" especially between different regions like USA vs Russia
+
10% Training (creating effective scripts and patterns) - requires Meta knowledge.

RESUME:
the best way to learn the game imho
1 step - learn Meta
2 step - Training Core mechanics
3 step - Create effective scripts and patterns
4. Practice in Online lag conditions.
So, 1 step - knowing META is one the most important element.

And btw, your rank DOES NOT MATTER at all - this is NOT a criteria of your TRUE SKILL! This is just your ego, nothing more. Why? b/c it depends on many things besides your true skill - time spended online (fights qty), your selected fighter (high OVR usually, btw i never played high OVR fighters!), your opponents , abuse game exploits and bugs (for me was boring to play the same way again and again, and if the game was not deep and does not provide a large variety of game styles i dropped it), etc.

Do you know whom from top players i respect more? Martial Mind, even when i sometimes disagree and discuss w him! Do you know WHY? b/c for him MORE important to get a variety and new feelings from the game, discover new styles (by playing with a whole roster including underdogs) - he want TO PLAY the game, NOT to post here his EGO and poke his rating/rank to your face! We have just different priorities with you - for me rank/stats is nothing.
and I don't care what someone think of me - so i not afraid to post unpopular threads when i think this can help for the game to get better.

I like your posts sometimes not even because of whether you are right or wrong or I understand .

But there's often an idea lingering in it or from those adverse to it .



Sent from my Infinix X604 using Operation Sports mobile app

[BigSmoke]

Re: Thoughts on the jab feint- body cross

That sums up right there.

People just wanna bring their ego into the forums, and can't look past it. It's clear as day to me.

This is easily 1 of the most toxic forums I've ever been apart of. And I've spent yeeeaaars on many others, including MTGSalvation, MTGTheSource, StormBoards, Paragon & SMITE forums, SBN forums. The way people act here and how they treat others is honestly just wild to me. I'm sure if most of you had it your way, this would be a "Top 100 players only" forum.

It's the elitist attitude a few select people on here seem to possess, they feel more important to the community than they actually are. On top of that fighting games generally bring out the worst in people for some reason.

I would much rather have a poster like SUGATA who actually contributes data to the community rather than elitist players who have sour attitudes but not much else to contribute.

[RomeroXVII]

Re: Thoughts on the jab feint- body cross

And we have come full circle once again.

Sometimes I feel like standing on top of a mountain and screaming "****ING LISTEN TO ME NEXT TIME" but it's okay, i'll just pretend like this exact issue wasn't anticipated, warned about repeatedly, fixed but left with a loop hole that was ALSO warned about but ignored.

Yes, i know the comment above that you just read was childish as hell, but it gets REALLY frustrating seeing issues a year into the game, issues that flat out should've been eradicated early on without question.

When the game first dropped, the Jab to the head, followed by straight to the body was an issue... right from the start. There was zero doubt in my mind it would plague the online community and you know why? Because players in this game are copy cats with ZERO originality.

They watch videos, watch streams, and rather than simply apply the knowledge they learn to their OWN game, they simply try to mirror a specific successful player. Now everyone is running around like they are Edparker... fighting southpaw, shuffling their feet, throwing Jab feints into body straights, saying "Mate" and calling the opposition "Rat". It's like you fight one of them, you've fought them ALL.

My suggestion at the time was to KILL this combo while moving forward... Kill it COMPLETELY by either

A) Making it simply not flow together when thrown moving forward
B) Reduce the range on the straight to disallow chasing opponents

Rule B was implemented, BUT then a loop hole was left... I might need to lab it a bit, but i'm not even sure the feint is ACTUALLY speeding up the straight, i believe the feint is simply canceling rule B that was implemented. Go back and early footage of the game when the full on jab to the head, straight to the body was the main thing... it's thesame speed you see now.

The solution is simple.

KILL this combo, PERIOD!. Do not allow it under any circumstance... whether the player is loading the straight up after an actual jab, or a feint. Apply the rule that "reduces the range of a forward moving low punch IF the punch before was a forward moving high punch". Apply that rule to feints as well.

Or not.

Speaking of copycats:

https://youtu.be/N3I8lcSLofw

And for those who still don't understand the issue, watch how fast and how quick the distance is closed with the jab body cross feint at 13:43 from the Weidman player. Nobody is sliding forward like that IRL, to get that result in game you have to input the body cross at a specific time.