What determines a 10-8 grappling round?

[Good Grappler]

Re: What determines a 10-8 grappling round?

Does a guy hanging in half guard for a full round without attempting a sub or any significant damage deserve a 10-8?

No, because half guard isn’t a dominant position. To win a 10-8 from half guard alone, there would need to be significant damage dealt from GnP.

In that case, he has "control" the whole round.

Yes, but again, half guard is not a dominant position. So that shouldn’t warrant a 10-8. To win a 10-8 on control time alone, it would have to be from dominant positions.

What if they go on bottom is attempting subs?

This isn’t very set in stone, and is up for debate. The question here is, at what point am I ineligible from winning a 10-8 round? After 5 sub attempts? After 1 close sub? In my opinion, if even one submission gets to the last gate (near finish), 10-8 should be off the table. And even if the subs never get past the first gate, I should still be ineligible for a 10-8, if they attempt say 3 or more. But again, this isn’t clear even in real life judging.

What if you have total control for 4:30 but I get a close sub in the last :30?

This should take the 10-8 off the table. If we’re talking CONTROL ALONE, then there should be way less tolerance for error. A single close sub should be enough to move it from 10-8 to 10-9.

IMO, winning a 10-8 on control alone should require a complete shut out - one rock, one near sub, it’s a 10-9.



Basically, to win a 10-8 round using JUST control - without any significant damage or subs - the margin for error should be extremely strict. Even one mistake should bump that 10-8 to a 10-9. Just one near sub should make you ineligible for a 10-8. However, if the fighter doesn’t make any mistakes, and avoids all damage, then it should certainly be possible to win a 10-8 round on control alone, assuming there’s sufficient control time and positional dominance.

Whereas if GnP and sub attempts are also being used, the criteria for a 10-8 should be more lenient, because you’re able to “even out” any damage you absorb with damage of your own. Because theoretically, you can get hurt and end up in 10-9 territory, but land some GnP and move back into 10-8 territory before the rounds over.

[Lauriedr1ver]

Re: What determines a 10-8 grappling round?

No, because half guard isn’t a dominant position. To win a 10-8 from half guard alone, there would need to be significant damage dealt from GnP.



Yes, but again, half guard is not a dominant position. So that shouldn’t warrant a 10-8. To win a 10-8 on control time alone, it would have to be from dominant positions.



This isn’t very set in stone, and is up for debate. The question here is, at what point am I ineligible from winning a 10-8 round? After 5 sub attempts? After 1 close sub? In my opinion, if even one submission gets to the last gate (near finish), 10-8 should be off the table. And even if the subs never get past the first gate, I should still be ineligible for a 10-8, if they attempt say 3 or more. But again, this isn’t clear even in real life judging.



This should take the 10-8 off the table. If we’re talking CONTROL ALONE, then there should be way less tolerance for error. A single close sub should be enough to move it from 10-8 to 10-9.

IMO, winning a 10-8 on control alone should require a complete shut out - one rock, one near sub, it’s a 10-9.



Basically, to win a 10-8 round using JUST control - without any significant damage or subs - the margin for error should be extremely strict. Even one mistake should bump that 10-8 to a 10-9. Just one near sub should make you ineligible for a 10-8. However, if the fighter doesn’t make any mistakes, and avoids all damage, then it should certainly be possible to win a 10-8 round on control alone, assuming there’s sufficient control time and positional dominance.

Whereas if GnP and sub attempts are also being used, the criteria for a 10-8 should be more lenient, because you’re able to “even out” any damage you absorb with damage of your own. Because theoretically, you can get hurt and end up in 10-9 territory, but land some GnP and move back into 10-8 territory before the rounds over.

Only disagreement I have is if someone gets a close sub versus control alone they should win the round. As they have done more to contribute to the end of the fight than you have and therefore should win 10-9.

[aholbert32]

Re: What determines a 10-8 grappling round?

Only disagreement I have is if someone gets a close sub versus control alone they should win the round. As they have done more to contribute to the end of the fight than you have and therefore should win 10-9.

So in that second example, you think the person who attempts the sub with 30 seconds should win the round?


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[Lauriedr1ver]

Re: What determines a 10-8 grappling round?

So in that second example, you think the person who attempts the sub with 30 seconds should win the round?


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Close subs as in last gates are akin to knockdowns etc irl. Wouldnt you agree?

[Good Grappler]

Re: What determines a 10-8 grappling round?

Only disagreement I have is if someone gets a close sub versus control alone they should win the round. As they have done more to contribute to the end of the fight than you have and therefore should win 10-9.

Yes - if it was an otherwise close round. But we’re talking about 10-8 rounds.

In other words, assume fighter A has done everything right, and is en route to winning a 10-8 grappling round. Then in the last 30 seconds, fighter B gets super close with a submission attempt.

The near sub should drop the score from 10-8 to 10-9, but it shouldn’t cost fighter A the round entirely (assuming it would’ve been a 10-8 had the sub not occured). Fighter A should still win the round 10-9.

I mean, winning a 10-8 grappling round on control alone would have to have some pretty strict criteria, right? You’re not using GnP, you’re not doing any major damage. So you’d have to have an almost PERFECT round to win a 10-8 on control alone. One mistake - like a close sub - is enough to bump that 10-8 off the table.

Basically, to win a 10-8 round on control alone, you can’t get caught in a near sub.

Now if fighter A was winning a 10-9 round, then I can see an argument for a close sub costing the round entirely. But we’re talking 10-8s here.

[Good Grappler]

Re: What determines a 10-8 grappling round?

So in that second example, you think the person who attempts the sub with 30 seconds should win the round?


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Only if the person caught in the sub was en route to winning a 10-9 round.

If they were winning a 10-8 round, it shouldn’t cost the round entirely. Bump it down to 10-9, sure. But from 10-8 to 9-10 would be too drastic.

A good, simply way to look at it is this:

Close subs can win close rounds, and they can change 10-8s to 10-9s. But they can’t change 10-8s to 9-10s.

[aholbert32]

Re: What determines a 10-8 grappling round?

Close subs as in last gates are akin to knockdowns etc irl. Wouldnt you agree?

I agree with GG’s take. If he’s dominating in the ground for 4:30 and it’s a 10-8 round, a close sub should move it to a 10-9 for the guy on top. One close sub shouldn’t negate 4:30 seconds of domination.


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[Lauriedr1ver]

Re: What determines a 10-8 grappling round?

Yes - if it was an otherwise close round. But we’re talking about 10-8 rounds.

In other words, assume fighter A has done everything right, and is en route to winning a 10-8 grappling round. Then in the last 30 seconds, fighter B gets super close with a submission attempt.

The near sub should drop the score from 10-8 to 10-9, but it shouldn’t cost fighter A the round entirely (assuming it would’ve been a 10-8 had the sub not occured). Fighter A should still win the round 10-9.

I mean, winning a 10-8 grappling round on control alone would have to have some pretty strict criteria, right? You’re not using GnP, you’re not doing any major damage. So you’d have to have an almost PERFECT round to win a 10-8 on control alone. One mistake - like a close sub - is enough to bump that 10-8 off the table.

Basically, to win a 10-8 round on control alone, you can’t get caught in a near sub.

Now if fighter A was winning a 10-9 round, then I can see an argument for a close sub costing the round entirely. But we’re talking 10-8s here.

Let's compared this to fighting on the feet, a counter punches is getting out punched and has little to no offence causing a 10-8 round in his oppenents favour. But in the last 30 seconds he lands a clean shot and drops his oppenent badly but be manages to survive the round. Doesn't that no sway the round due to him almost finishing the fight?

[Lauriedr1ver]

Re: What determines a 10-8 grappling round?

I agree with GG’s take. If he’s dominating in the ground for 4:30 and it’s a 10-8 round, a close sub should move it to a 10-9 for the guy on top. One close sub shouldn’t negate 4:30 seconds of domination.


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I think its clearly a case of a round sway as he is do I far more to contribute to the end of a fight than his oppenent, if it was bad gnp it would be differnt as damage is the most important category.

[Lauriedr1ver]

Re: What determines a 10-8 grappling round?

The reason theres a differnece between damage and control is because its the main rule is who is doing more to contribute to the end of the fight.

Control and duration dont really contribute that much. Unless the controlling fighter is also getting close with subs and gnp.

[RomeroXVII]

Re: What determines a 10-8 grappling round?

Let's compared this to fighting on the feet, a counter punches is getting out punched and has little to no offence causing a 10-8 round in his oppenents favour. But in the last 30 seconds he lands a clean shot and drops his oppenent badly but be manages to survive the round. Doesn't that no sway the round due to him almost finishing the fight?

You'd likely still have a 10-9 round for the other guy who was dominating for most of the round, and maybe that one judge that scores it a 10-9 for the dude pulling off a comeback in a sense. Darren Elkins has been in tons of fights like the one you've mentioned, minus the whole counter puncher stuff since he blocks with his face.

[Lauriedr1ver]

Re: What determines a 10-8 grappling round?

You'd likely still have a 10-9 round for the other guy who was dominating for most of the round, and maybe that one judge that scores it a 10-9 for the dude pulling off a comeback in a sense. Darren Elkins has been in tons of fights like the one you've mentioned, minus the whole counter puncher stuff since he blocks with his face.

Has he though? Where hes been getting dominated but then at the end of the round almost finishes his oppenent? This would defo swing a decision tbh.

[RomeroXVII]

Re: What determines a 10-8 grappling round?

Has he though? Where hes been getting dominated but then at the end of the round almost finishes his oppenent? This would defo swing a decision tbh.

Take a wonderful look through the UFC Fight Pass and enjoy the madness that is Darren Elkins, it's unbelievable.

You can also watch Edgar's fight against Maynard (2), the momentum shift happens in Round 2 or 3.

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[Lauriedr1ver]

Re: What determines a 10-8 grappling round?

Take a wonderful look through the UFC Fight Pass and enjoy the madness that is Darren Elkins, it's unbelievable.

You can also watch Edgar's fight against Maynard (2), the momentum shift happens in Round 2 or 3.

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Do you really believe almost finishing someone isnt enough to sway a round?

[RomeroXVII]

Re: What determines a 10-8 grappling round?

Do you really believe almost finishing someone isnt enough to sway a round?

You stated the person getting beat to the point where it's a 10-8, so it would be tough to sway that.

If it was a matter of, the dude was outworking him clearly for a 10-9 round, and then outta nowhere in the final minute he gets dropped by said dude and almost finished, then yes, that would sway the round for that person.

Please remember what you state my friend. 10-8 rounds are generally rounds where the opposition is rendered completely on the defensive under an onslaught of striking or grappling exchanges (Souza vs Gastelum is an example of a 10-8 grappling round).

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