What determines a 10-8 grappling round?

[Phillyboi207]

Re: What determines a 10-8 grappling round?

This is so confusing. Unless I'm wrong you are stating that.

1. You should get a 10-8 for holding a dominant position for an extended period of time even with no attempt to finish.

2. You should get stood up for holding position for an extended period of time if there is no attempt to finish.

These statements conflict each other. Both judging and refereeing are part of officiating and refereeing can effect scoring (point deduction) so they should support each other.

Besides, I could easily see a scenario where a fighter just stalls a dominant position to win a round 10-8. For instance, imagine its the last round and you're tied in scorecards. Why wouldn't you hold back mount for 90% of the round then try to finish at the final seconds when there is no risk involved? This is of course assuming that holding position is enough to grant a 10-8.

1) When discussing judging logic/criteria in a vacuum. YES.

I just dont think it’d ever happen due to ref willing to stand a fighter up and a fighter would have to take someone down and literally sustain no damage.

2) YES. Because we were originally discussing judging criteria only.

I also think 4 knockdowns/severe rocks in a round should be a 10-7 but it’d never happen if the ref is doing their job properly since they’d stop the fight.

I think the judging logic should be independent of the ref’s logic. A ref’s job is to protect fighters and enforce rules. A judges job is only to score the fight using the criteria.

[Lauriedr1ver]

Re: What determines a 10-8 grappling round?

What I meant is that realism shouldn't be prioritized over fun. For example, I don't think it should be possible to break your hands with the first 1-2 you throw just because it can happen in real life. There are some purists who think it should be possible but I believe they are a very small minority.

edit: Obviously there are also things that are both realistic and fun.



The way I still understand it, Phillyboy thinks that instead of getting stood up they should be allowed to stay on mount and be given a 10-8 for denying transitions all round with no attempts to finish.

I know you were joking about eye pokes and groin shots but you have defo jinxed these weekends fights. 1 groin shot and 1 buckled knee injury that ended fights damn.

[tomitomitomi]

Re: What determines a 10-8 grappling round?

1) When discussing judging logic/criteria in a vacuum. YES.

I just dont think it’d ever happen due to ref willing to stand a fighter up and a fighter would have to take someone down and literally sustain no damage.

2) YES. Because we were originally discussing judging criteria only.

Not to be rude but what how does this discourse contribute to the thread then? Aholbert wanted to know what should 10-8 grappling rounds be based on and you contradict your own opinion by saying that the referees wouldn't/shouldn't allow it to happen.

I also think 4 knockdowns/severe rocks in a round should be a 10-7 but it’d never happen if the ref is doing their job properly since they’d stop the fight.

I think the judging logic should be independent of the ref’s logic. A ref’s job is to protect fighters and enforce rules. A judges job is only to score the fight using the criteria.

So why stand the guys up if there is no need for protection? And the scoring criteria are part of the rules so there should probably be some consistency with how fights are refereed and judges. It would make no sense for the rules to say that 10-8 stall rounds are a thing but the referees are meant to stand them up if they are just stalling.

Plus, the 10-7 rounds are there just in case a fighter miraculously survives the round. They are meant to be extremely rare unlike 10-8s.

I know you were joking about eye pokes and groin shots but you have defo jinxed these weekends fights. 1 groin shot and 1 buckled knee injury that ended fights damn.

Don't forget about the broken leg and eyepoke.

[Lauriedr1ver]

Re: What determines a 10-8 grappling round?

Not to be rude but what how does this course contribute to the thread then? Aholbert wanted to know what should 10-8 grappling rounds be based on and you contradict your own opinion by saying that the referees wouldn't/shouldn't allow it to happen.



So why stand the guys up if there is no need for protection? And the scoring criteria are part of the rules so there should probably be some consistency with how fights are refereed and judges. It would make no sense for the rules to say that 10-8 stall rounds are a thing but the referees are meant to stand them up if they are just stalling.

Plus, the 10-7 rounds are there just in case a fighter miraculously survives the round. They are meant to be extremely rare unlike 10-8s.



Don't forget about the broken leg and eyepoke.

I am confused to what your stance is? What do you think constitutes to a 10-8 round via grappling.

[Phillyboi207]

Re: What determines a 10-8 grappling round?

I’ll concede the point about the discussion not being helpful when talking about two fighters literally not doing anything. But that’s the hypothetical you created.

In a real fight maintaining a dominant position involves improving position for both fighters.

Maia vs Magny is the best example I can think of. Or any Askren fight.

[tomitomitomi]

Re: What determines a 10-8 grappling round?

I’ll concede the point about the discussion not being helpful when talking about two fighters literally not doing anything. But that’s the hypothetical you created.

In a real fight maintaining a dominant position involves improving position for both fighters.

Maia vs Magny is the best example I can think of. Or any Askren fight.

That is how I interpreted this post.

I am confused to what your stance is? What do you think constitutes to a 10-8 round via grappling.

I touched on it in my initial post. I would prioritize domination with inflicted damage. Top control itself doesn't give a 10-8 but utilizing it effectively to attack your opponent does. However, that is very difficult to evaluate with the current grappling system because there are no rock states on the ground. You can't KO someone from guard unless you drop them and somehow manage to land three unblocked strikes in a row.

Basically, GNP is too reliant on cumulative hits that either end the fight or do nothing short term. If the game acknowledged effective ground and pound more effectively (via rock statuses etc like Undisputed 3 for instance) then I think it would be much easier to give 10-8 rounds.

Obviously in real life you could easily give Maia 10-8 rounds for making his opponents go on survival mode but the submission system is definitely not advanced enough to simulate that just yet. Just like GNP, it is very binary in its current state. Either you got the submission or you didn't really accomplish anything. And just to clarify, I do not believe that Maia is trying to stall in a dominant position.

[Phillyboi207]

Re: What determines a 10-8 grappling round?

I figured and that’s my fault for not being clear.

Even round 1 of Khabib vs Conor it was Khabib constantly reastablishing his position. Both fighters werent just sitting there not doing anything.

When a fighter has someone’s back for an entire round they attempt some form of offense whether it’s small strikes or RNC that may not come close

[Lauriedr1ver]

Re: What determines a 10-8 grappling round?

I touched on it in my initial post. I would prioritize domination with inflicted damage. Top control itself doesn't give a 10-8 but utilizing it effectively to attack your opponent does. However, that is very difficult to evaluate with the current grappling system because there are no rock states on the ground. You can't KO someone from guard unless you drop them and somehow manage to land three unblocked strikes in a row.

Basically, GNP is too reliant on cumulative hits that either end the fight or do nothing short term. If the game acknowledged effective ground and pound more effectively (via rock statuses etc like Undisputed 3 for instance) then I think it would be much easier to give 10-8 rounds.

Obviously in real life you could easily give Maia 10-8 rounds for making his opponents go on survival mode but the submission system is definitely not advanced enough to simulate that just yet. Just like GNP, it is very binary in its current state. Either you got the submission or you didn't really accomplish anything. And just to clarify, I do not believe that Maia is trying to stall in a dominant position.

How does submission attempts fit into this? Keep it closer to real life scoring as thats what the game should be 100 percent based on.

[tomitomitomi]

Re: What determines a 10-8 grappling round?

How does submission attempts fit into this? Keep it closer to real life scoring as thats what the game should be 100 percent based on.

I already commented on it. The submission system in its current state isn't nuanced enough to accurately replicate how its scored. For 10-8s I would still emphasize damage and possible submissions if the game can recognize which attempts are genuine threats and which ones are not.

[Good Grappler]

Re: What determines a 10-8 grappling round?

Some examples of control-based 10-8 grappling rounds:

Demian Maia vs Gunnar Nelson round 2
Ben Askren vs Andrey Koreshkov round 1
Donald Cerrone vs Myles Jury round 1


Some examples of damage based 10-8 grappling rounds:

Frankie Edgar vs Yair Rodriguez round 1
Khabib vs Johnson round 2
Fitch vs Erick Silva round 2

[Lauriedr1ver]

Re: What determines a 10-8 grappling round?

I already commented on it. The submission system in its current state isn't nuanced enough to accurately replicate how its scored. For 10-8s I would still emphasize damage and possible submissions if the game can recognize which attempts are genuine threats and which ones are not.

Number of gates completed?

[tomitomitomi]

Re: What determines a 10-8 grappling round?

Number of gates completed?

You could theoretically let your opponent get a few gates to get a better position once you escape so the gates are not entirely accurate. Even then you lose position on most failed submission attempts so practically speaking I do not think you can get 10-8s purely based on submission attempts in the current state of the game.

[Lauriedr1ver]

Re: What determines a 10-8 grappling round?

You could theoretically let your opponent get a few gates to get a better position once you escape so the gates are not entirely accurate. Even then you lose position on most failed submission attempts so practically speaking I do not think you can get 10-8s purely based on submission attempts in the current state of the game.

Theoretically you could get yourself dropped so you oppenent dives into your guard and you pull of an arm catch submission, I literally done in today. Doesn't mean that they knockdown shouldnt score.

[Kingslayer04]

Re: What determines a 10-8 grappling round?

Theoretically you could get yourself dropped so you oppenent dives into your guard and you pull of an arm catch submission, I literally done in today. Doesn't mean that they knockdown shouldnt score.

Lol, just says everything about the damage/health effects situation in the game, when letting the other guy drop you so you can get an advantage is a thing.

[tomitomitomi]

Re: What determines a 10-8 grappling round?

Theoretically you could get yourself dropped so you oppenent dives into your guard and you pull of an arm catch submission, I literally done in today. Doesn't mean that they knockdown shouldnt score.

You can't manually drop though.