Circling Out --- Sprint Option For UFC 4

[aholbert32]

Re: Circling Out --- Sprint Option For UFC 4

Are we realism guys that quiet? We've been talking about lots of things in the way of realism for a really long time and pretty constantly too. I've felt like I'm repeating myself a number of times now. How much more vocal can we get?

A thread on OS isnt really being vocal. Its basically just talking to people who are like minded. There isnt a ton of pushback that comes from OS when it comes to adding sim elements.

Check out Geoff's twitter. Those comp guys are regularly tagging him and replying to comments directly. They are constantly vocal on the ESFL discord and other outlets like Reddit.

[Kingslayer04]

Re: Circling Out --- Sprint Option For UFC 4

A thread on OS isnt really being vocal. Its basically just talking to people who are like minded. There isnt a ton of pushback that comes from OS when it comes to adding sim elements.

Check out Geoff's twitter. Those comp guys are regularly tagging him and replying to comments directly. They are constantly vocal on the ESFL discord and other outlets like Reddit.

Right. Well everything that's been said here is said to be seen by the developers and indeed, we get to interact with 2 or even 3 of them directly. We also get to interact with a number of gamechangers, plus some competitive players. It's not like this is some obscure place where we have no chance to be heard - on the contrary. I don't really get why it matters that this is OS and not Reddit, apart from maybe the fact that we could get more people to support (or refute) what we want, but more people would naturally also make us more "vocal". But then it's also about numbers, not simply about being vocal. I can't say we haven't been really vocal for as long as I've been on here anyway, we have been.

[aholbert32]

Re: Circling Out --- Sprint Option For UFC 4

Right. Well everything that's been said here is said to be seen by the developers and indeed, we get to interact with 2 or even 3 of them directly. We also get to interact with a number of gamechangers, plus some competitive players. It's not like this is some obscure place where we have no chance to be heard - on the contrary. I don't really get why it matters that this is OS and not Reddit, apart from maybe the fact that we could get more people to support (or refute) what we want, but more people would naturally also make us more "vocal". But then it's also about numbers, not simply about being vocal. I can't say we haven't been really vocal for as long as I've been on here anyway, we have been.

But thats it. If there are 20 people here saying they want a circle out option, thats fine but its just 20 people. If you have those 20 plus 200 up votes on Reddit and a ton of retweets on Twitter, thats an even bigger show of support.

The argument OSers should be making is that the changes they want are wanted by the entire community and will benefit the entire community. Only posting here doesnt show that because this community is the hardest of the hardcore sim community and doesnt completely represent the entire community.

[TheRizzzle]

Re: Circling Out --- Sprint Option For UFC 4

It's still so weird to me that comp players complain about running.

If you run and do nothing else, the runner would lose on points. So the person complaining about running would win? They wouldn't get a satisfactory knockout but they could win. Why would they be mad?

Unless the runner is also hitting them and scoring points. Now I understand, but then I also understand that a truly competitive player should try to get better at beating defensive styles instead of influencing the game to get tailored to their skill sets.

So really I say man up and git gud amirite????

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[Kingslayer04]

Re: Circling Out --- Sprint Option For UFC 4

But thats it. If there are 20 people here saying they want a circle out option, thats fine but its just 20 people. If you have those 20 plus 200 up votes on Reddit and a ton of retweets on Twitter, thats an even bigger show of support.

The argument OSers should be making is that the changes they want are wanted by the entire community and will benefit the entire community. Only posting here doesnt show that because this community is the hardest of the hardcore sim community and doesnt completely represent the entire community.

So that's it then, it's about numbers. That's what I wanted to know. If I can get people behind me, then I'm vocal.

[TheRizzzle]

Re: Circling Out --- Sprint Option For UFC 4

If they were truly going up against someone that was running and it's truly about competition and being able to win, then stand in the middle of the cage like Garbrandt did against Cruz and force them to come to you.

But if you just want to be a bull every fight I could see why you want to eliminate matadors from the game and claim it's for the sake of competition.

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[aholbert32]

Re: Circling Out --- Sprint Option For UFC 4

So that's it then, it's about numbers. That's what I wanted to know. If I can get people behind me, then I'm vocal.

Yes but thats obvious, right? For example, lets say I started a thread here every day that said "Cage Grappling should be the most important thing in UFC 4"....and no one posts in that thread to agree.

Sure I'm being vocal. I'm speaking out. I'm posting every day. But that doesnt strengthen my argument that the entire community agrees with me. ****, even if 100 people on OS agree with me that doesnt mean the ENTIRE community does.

I've said this a million times here. EA isnt just selling the game to us. They arent just selling it to comp players. They are trying to sell the game to everyone. The way for your ideas to stand out isnt just to show that like minded people agree with what you want. Its to show that a consensus of differnt kind of players want the same thing as you.

[Kingslayer04]

Re: Circling Out --- Sprint Option For UFC 4

Yes but thats obvious, right? For example, lets say I started a thread here every day that said "Cage Grappling should be the most important thing in UFC 4"....and no one posts in that thread to agree.

Sure I'm being vocal. I'm speaking out. I'm posting every day. But that doesnt strengthen my argument that the entire community agrees with me. ****, even if 100 people on OS agree with me that doesnt mean the ENTIRE community does.

I've said this a million times here. EA isnt just selling the game to us. They arent just selling it to comp players. They are trying to sell the game to everyone. The way for your ideas to stand out isnt just to show that like minded people agree with what you want. Its to show that a consensus of differnt kind of players want the same thing as you.

Yes, absolutely, I just wanted to know what constitutes "vocal" and I got my answer. In which subreddit do they have their discussions?

[aholbert32]

Re: Circling Out --- Sprint Option For UFC 4

It's still so weird to me that comp players complain about running.

If you run and do nothing else, the runner would lose on points. So the person complaining about running would win? They wouldn't get a satisfactory knockout but they could win. Why would they be mad?

Unless the runner is also hitting them and scoring points. Now I understand, but then I also understand that a truly competitive player should try to get better at beating defensive styles instead of influencing the game to get tailored to their skill sets.

So really I say man up and git gud amirite????

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Nah because you are thinking of it as someone who is actually running. They mean "running" as not consistently engaging. Someone who pokes at you with light shots and never really engages.

Their argument is that running forces them either to lose because the opponent is winning based the little damage they cause and the fact that you cant land or that it forces them into the same style to win which they feel is boring and not fun.

[TheRizzzle]

Re: Circling Out --- Sprint Option For UFC 4

Nah because you are thinking of it as someone who is actually running. They mean "running" as not consistently engaging. Someone who pokes at you with light shots and never really engages.



Their argument is that running forces them either to lose because the opponent is winning based the little damage they cause and the fact that you cant land or that it forces them into the same style to win which they feel is boring and not fun.

That last sentence is really what this about for them. They are just disguising it as purely being about competition.

A 7-6 football game counts the same as a win as a 40-7 or 52-51 game. But not everybody can win every type of way.

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[TheRizzzle]

Re: Circling Out --- Sprint Option For UFC 4

Nah because you are thinking of it as someone who is actually running. They mean "running" as not consistently engaging. Someone who pokes at you with light shots and never really engages.



Their argument is that running forces them either to lose because the opponent is winning based the little damage they cause and the fact that you cant land or that it forces them into the same style to win which they feel is boring and not fun.

What they are saying is I need my opponent to fight me on my terms so that I can A) win and B) have fun doing it. And when that isn't happening I'll ask the devs to force them to fight on my terms.

That's a simplified version of the argument but that's the argument I'm hearing.

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[johnmangala]

Re: Circling Out --- Sprint Option For UFC 4

Actually you are asking me to defend it.

"Couldn't you use the same argument for grappling?

I edited out 'running' and replaced it with 'grappling' in your quote. Would you say the same for grappling?"

"Are you suggesting that comp would be opposed to a basic fundamental tool like the second gif that can be used offensively- cage cut, or defensively- circle away, because they don't want the first gif? I don't think you have shown that."

Now I ignored the first question because its asking me to defend a bull**** argument ("running is a problem in the game") by substituting another word with it and I dont want to waste my time defending an argument I dont agree with.

I'll respond to the your second statement though. Before we had the back sprint and when many of the footwork moves like lunges were less responsive......COMP PLAYERS WERE COMPLAINING ABOUT RUNNING BEING CONSTANT IN THE GAME. They were complaining about running when you literally couldnt run away from your opponent.

Now that we have those tools AND THEY ARE STILL COMPLAINING ABOUT RUNNING. Even though if you watch comp fights, no one is using the back sprint in them.

So you think that simply because a movement tool can be used on defense to cut off the cage that these players wont complain about it being used to run? Really?

One issue that you and I consistently have is you present an idea (usually a good one), I tell you why other parts of the community may have an issue with that idea and you then ask me to defend their argument....even though it isnt an argument that I agree with.

Part of that is because there arent many hardcore comp players here. The names I see on ESFL cards arent regular members of OS. So there is no one for you to debate with from that side and I can see that it is frustrating.

The only option I have at this point is just to not respond to these threads but that does you and other OSers a disservice. Why? Because the community here sees a good idea that everyone in the forum seems to agree with, thinks "The devs should add this. Everyone at OS loves this idea." and then gets frustrated when the devs dont add that idea. What they dont take into account is that there is a very vocal side that is arguing specifically against ideas like this. I'm here to give you a little glimpse at what the overall discussion is on each issue...not just what hardcore sim players want.

Last thing: You want to know why it took the devs so long (about 8 mos) to address movement in a significant way? Because comp players didnt consider it a priority and there were other issues that the community as a whole agreed were more pressing.

If comp players werent complaining about running, movement wouldve been made a priority earlier. I was having full out arguments with comp players about movement and how it needed to be buffed in April '18 but their pushback is part of the reason (not all) that changes were put on the back burner.

So I'm not confident that simply because a movement tool can be used defensively, that comp players wont complain about it. **** some of them objected to increasing the angle at which you can ircle out when side lunging a strike.

Actually I am asking for clarity. If I wanted you to defend the argument I would've asked you the reasons why you think circling shouldn't be included. I'm instead asking you to clarify the argument you present for them.

I tried to show you that the argument you presented can be applied to grappling. So in other words would you present their argument if comp were complaining about grappling the way they complain about running?

The logic you presented can be applied to the Driving TD, so should that not have been added?

You provided some clarification any way. You say even tho running can be countered, that may not stop complaints from comp. This is the most insane thing I've read considering how much people like you used to hammer casuals/sim for not using all the tools then complaining about pressure. Same thing we see here but instead we have comp being sheltered when you should use the argument on them that they need to use the tools.

This is especially alarming because we have people like you always going on about comp playing the game right and what not, yet here we have them not adapting and using the right tools (in this case grappling is already a hard counter to running, supplement with circling along to cut off counters circling away or 'running').

Again a middle ground is having the feature but have it adjusted. You could make cage cutting more effective v running.

Should the rest of us all be restricted because a minority doesn't want to use all the tools? It's hypocritical.

[bmlimo]

Re: Circling Out --- Sprint Option For UFC 4

Nah because you are thinking of it as someone who is actually running. They mean "running" as not consistently engaging. Someone who pokes at you with light shots and never really engages.

Their argument is that running forces them either to lose because the opponent is winning based the little damage they cause and the fact that you cant land or that it forces them into the same style to win which they feel is boring and not fun.

They style is boring and not fun, 0 strategy 100% muscle memory reaction.

[1212headkick]

Re: Circling Out --- Sprint Option For UFC 4

The devs regularly play online.


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Interact with the community via playing the game. Youll discover more problems that way

[1212headkick]

Re: Circling Out --- Sprint Option For UFC 4

Did you actually read what I said? I said a lot of yous dont, most comp players don't want this. Again this is one of mine, phillybois and Aholberts first discussions on here FCB x Finlay X btw if you want to check.

You can't just say stuff like that when I know from experience its not true at all.

Bro.... Your switching your position. Competitive players do want this. I took LOTS of backlash. Know why? I bitched about this on the forum everyday. I made seeeeeeeevvvveral threads on footwork buffs. If there was a reason people dont listen to you its because your acting ignorant