Circling Out --- Sprint Option For UFC 4

[1212headkick]

Re: Circling Out --- Sprint Option For UFC 4

To be honest, thats 5 guys you named and that aint enough. Kind of hard to argue that comp players "want realism" when months ago you could go to any ESFL chat or its discord and find people complaining about running.

****, I just went to the ESFL discord and typed in "running" in the search and came up with 2051 refernces to running. Now some dont have anything to do with running in the game but just for fun lets take some comments from the last week:

"Cant hit me if I'm running"
"I get tired of Preacher all he does is run and look for stationary uppercuts"
"Standing up is fine as long as you are engaging and not running away"
"He's running!"
"Combo always running man"
"Combo went running"
"running from Mad Dog"
"breezy just runs"
"tech stop running fight me"
"Breezy will run"

Now thats just in the last 5 days. Comp fighters are obsessed with running. They complain about it constantly. I know because last spring when I was trying to push the devs to buff movement (which is what OSers wanted), I was getting MAJOR pushback from comp players who complained that running was already prominent.

You wanna know why there was a major stamina tax on the back retreat when it was introduced? Because the devs wanted to buff movement but took the claims of running from comp players seriously so they tried to find a middle ground.

So there may be a few of you comp players that want realism when it comes to movement but there arent enough of you and you need more of those types to be more vocal.

Well ek preacher is a pressure fighter. Most of those listed are guys that I beat. Ek preacher is a prime example of why smart fighting needs a buff. He does not need but spam and throw overhands and pray. He usually has no stamina left when I beat him. Spams double under reversal ie get out of the ground free card. Mad dog is a pressure fighter. All the pressure fighters aren’t very skilled and the moment they see their stamina going down they say your running. They don’t understand I’m punishing them for not fighting smart. I’m up on all those kids. No lie. This game was advertised for being able to use fight iq.Play the game and that’s a pure joke. Breezy gets taken down and abused. These kids don’t use all the tools. Why listen? I do

[johnmangala]

Re: Circling Out --- Sprint Option For UFC 4

You and others need to understand something.

I'm not making an argument for comp players. This isnt my argument. I've never bought into the argument that "running" is an issue. I believe that comp players use the term "running" to mean anyone who isnt constantly engaging and I dislike that.

My point is that this is what they are saying when you attempt to add features that will buff movement. So when you suggest something like this you need to realize there is another side that is very vocal....that likely doesnt agree with what you want.

So you dont need to convince me. I dont need to debate their points with you. What you need is hardcore comp players to come over to your side. Until then the devs will be obligated to try to find a middle ground so they dont alienate one of the sides.

I'm not saying it's your argument. I am just talking about the argument itself not about who's it is or who is presenting it.

To make this clear I am not talking about getting literal running away in, at least not until there is also movement tied to the cage. I am referring to literal circling in this context.

Visual illustration:

'Running' (running away, literally facing away)


Circling (lateral movement/strafing)


Comp doesn't want something like the first gif. It would not fit into this game at this stage. Things like free movement (Movement tied to opponent or cage, instead of just opponent now) would be required for that.

Are you suggesting that comp would be opposed to a basic fundamental tool like the second gif that can be used offensively- cage cut, or defensively- circle away, because they don't want the first gif? I don't think you have shown that.

Even if, just because a vocal minority based on samples doesn't like a fundamental feature doesn't mean it needs to be disregarded for the rest. What you are talking about is not a middle ground tho.

A middle ground would be having the feature but have it be contained with tunings that adjust for cage cutting v 'running' (circling along v circling away). For example, circling near the cage with your back against, or near, it would slow down allowing for more effective cage cutting.

Here's an example of a real fighter countering circling away by cage cutting. Something that could be done in game by comp...



The point you have avoided so far is the same tool that would allow for people to 'run away' is the same tool that can be used to cut them off by circling along side them as they try to circle away (aka 'run'). It's still skill based, especially with the tunings that accompany all new features.

There is already an effective way to stop running already and it's with grappling, but when comp doesn't use the tools and only want to strike you want to accommodate them further by restricting options for the rest?

That said, coming back to the main point- circling can be used both offensively and defensively, as depicted in the second gif. Even if you only want to strike you are actually preventing those skilled in cage cutting from utilizing this technique to check 'running' or in this context circling away with only stand up skills.

[1212headkick]

Re: Circling Out --- Sprint Option For UFC 4

The devs should actually play online and have a community play day like the old thq devs. There was a reason why undisputed 3 always pleased because the devs played with us. They learned the bugs and exactly how bad they are. This needs to happen more or they’ll only be taking **** players opinions

[johnmangala]

Re: Circling Out --- Sprint Option For UFC 4

Things like Bug Awareness videos/blogs should be introduced with UFC 4 too. It would be very useful, people can be on more of an even playing field instead of advanced players figuring out all the exploits and abusing and then see it trickle down eventually as you see now. This quickens the process as most of the early months after release are spent addressing these very issues.

[1212headkick]

Re: Circling Out --- Sprint Option For UFC 4

We should have a modifier for walk-in and moderately moving and full on sprinting

[johnmangala]

Re: Circling Out --- Sprint Option For UFC 4

We should have a modifier for walk-in and moderately moving and full on sprinting

Yup.

L3 for sprinting
Full LS for normal movement
Half LS for walking

[aholbert32]

Re: Circling Out --- Sprint Option For UFC 4

The devs should actually play online and have a community play day like the old thq devs. There was a reason why undisputed 3 always pleased because the devs played with us. They learned the bugs and exactly how bad they are. This needs to happen more or they’ll only be taking **** players opinions

The devs regularly play online.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro

[aholbert32]

Re: Circling Out --- Sprint Option For UFC 4

I'm not saying it's your argument. I am just talking about the argument itself not about who's it is or who is presenting it.

To make this clear I am not talking about getting literal running away in, at least not until there is also movement tied to the cage. I am referring to literal circling in this context.

Visual illustration:

'Running' (running away, literally facing away)


Circling (lateral movement/strafing)


Comp doesn't want something like the first gif. It would not fit into this game at this stage. Things like free movement (Movement tied to opponent or cage, instead of just opponent now) would be required for that.

Are you suggesting that comp would be opposed to a basic fundamental tool like the second gif that can be used offensively- cage cut, or defensively- circle away, because they don't want the first gif? I don't think you have shown that.

Even if, just because a vocal minority based on samples doesn't like a fundamental feature doesn't mean it needs to be disregarded for the rest. What you are talking about is not a middle ground tho.

A middle ground would be having the feature but have it be contained with tunings that adjust for cage cutting v 'running' (circling along v circling away). For example, circling near the cage with your back against, or near, it would slow down allowing for more effective cage cutting.

Here's an example of a real fighter countering circling away by cage cutting. Something that could be done in game by comp...



The point you have avoided so far is the same tool that would allow for people to 'run away' is the same tool that can be used to cut them off by circling along side them as they try to circle away (aka 'run'). It's still skill based, especially with the tunings that accompany all new features.

There is already an effective way to stop running already and it's with grappling, but when comp doesn't use the tools and only want to strike you want to accommodate them further by restricting options for the rest?

That said, coming back to the main point- circling can be used both offensively and defensively, as depicted in the second gif. Even if you only want to strike you are actually preventing those skilled in cage cutting from utilizing this technique to check 'running' or in this context circling away with only stand up skills.

Actually you are asking me to defend it.

"Couldn't you use the same argument for grappling?

I edited out 'running' and replaced it with 'grappling' in your quote. Would you say the same for grappling?"

"Are you suggesting that comp would be opposed to a basic fundamental tool like the second gif that can be used offensively- cage cut, or defensively- circle away, because they don't want the first gif? I don't think you have shown that."

Now I ignored the first question because its asking me to defend a bull**** argument ("running is a problem in the game") by substituting another word with it and I dont want to waste my time defending an argument I dont agree with.

I'll respond to the your second statement though. Before we had the back sprint and when many of the footwork moves like lunges were less responsive......COMP PLAYERS WERE COMPLAINING ABOUT RUNNING BEING CONSTANT IN THE GAME. They were complaining about running when you literally couldnt run away from your opponent.

Now that we have those tools AND THEY ARE STILL COMPLAINING ABOUT RUNNING. Even though if you watch comp fights, no one is using the back sprint in them.

So you think that simply because a movement tool can be used on defense to cut off the cage that these players wont complain about it being used to run? Really?

One issue that you and I consistently have is you present an idea (usually a good one), I tell you why other parts of the community may have an issue with that idea and you then ask me to defend their argument....even though it isnt an argument that I agree with.

Part of that is because there arent many hardcore comp players here. The names I see on ESFL cards arent regular members of OS. So there is no one for you to debate with from that side and I can see that it is frustrating.

The only option I have at this point is just to not respond to these threads but that does you and other OSers a disservice. Why? Because the community here sees a good idea that everyone in the forum seems to agree with, thinks "The devs should add this. Everyone at OS loves this idea." and then gets frustrated when the devs dont add that idea. What they dont take into account is that there is a very vocal side that is arguing specifically against ideas like this. I'm here to give you a little glimpse at what the overall discussion is on each issue...not just what hardcore sim players want.

Last thing: You want to know why it took the devs so long (about 8 mos) to address movement in a significant way? Because comp players didnt consider it a priority and there were other issues that the community as a whole agreed were more pressing.

If comp players werent complaining about running, movement wouldve been made a priority earlier. I was having full out arguments with comp players about movement and how it needed to be buffed in April '18 but their pushback is part of the reason (not all) that changes were put on the back burner.

So I'm not confident that simply because a movement tool can be used defensively, that comp players wont complain about it. **** some of them objected to increasing the angle at which you can ircle out when side lunging a strike.

[Lauriedr1ver]

Re: Circling Out --- Sprint Option For UFC 4

Are you serious? Look through my posts. In may of last year i suggested this. Ask any veteran member. I made whole threads with gifs detailing how it should be done. You do not know anything. Ask aholbert.he knows
https://forums.operationsports.com/f...t-we-need.html

Did you actually read what I said? I said a lot of yous dont, most comp players don't want this. Again this is one of mine, phillybois and Aholberts first discussions on here FCB x Finlay X btw if you want to check.

You can't just say stuff like that when I know from experience its not true at all.

[WarMMA]

Re: Circling Out --- Sprint Option For UFC 4

Thing is sadly, most comp players don't care about sim/realism. All they care about is winning and being the best at the "game". They are just "game" guys and some aren't even fans of the sport probably. So anything they feel will hinder their chances at winning, they won't want. I can say for a fact that aholbert32 has been all for a lot of sim stuff. What he's trying to say is that those guys are a waay more vocal crowd than us sim guys and the only way things get impacted more is if we're more vocal. It's lots of them and little of us smh. Sometimes I wish EA UFC wasn't even on any sort of competitive scene tbh, cuz some of these guys are annoying as hell. They don't really care about how true to the sport the game is. It's only about winning for them.

[Lauriedr1ver]

Re: Circling Out --- Sprint Option For UFC 4

https://forums.operationsports.com/f...t-general.html
https://forums.operationsports.com/f...ting-done.html
https://forums.operationsports.com/f...-movement.html
https://forums.operationsports.com/f...e-standup.html

Here's the threads where this was brought up at the start of the game cycle, comp players do not want this change.

[Haz____]

Re: Circling Out --- Sprint Option For UFC 4

Top players make up the smallest percentage of the player base.

Maybe don't cater your game design to ~10% of your playerbase.

[aholbert32]

Re: Circling Out --- Sprint Option For UFC 4

Top players make up the smallest percentage of the player base.

Maybe don't cater your game design to ~10% of your playerbase.

The counter to that (and what the comp player GCs argue) is that top comp players are best suited to give advice on the game because not only have they put in significantly more time into the game than offline players (like me) or casual online players but they also are better at identifying issues with the game given their skill level.

Also its kind of hard to say dont listen to a part of the player base (comp players) because they are small but listen to another small percentage of the player base (hardcore sim players). ****, you represent an even smaller percentage (hardcore sim players that play primarily online).

The size of a particular group should matter. What should matter is whats best for the game.

[aholbert32]

Re: Circling Out --- Sprint Option For UFC 4

Thing is sadly, most comp players don't care about sim/realism. All they care about is winning and being the best at the "game". They are just "game" guys and some aren't even fans of the sport probably. So anything they feel will hinder their chances at winning, they won't want. I can say for a fact that aholbert32 has been all for a lot of sim stuff. What he's trying to say is that those guys are a waay more vocal crowd than us sim guys and the only way things get impacted more is if we're more vocal. It's lots of them and little of us smh. Sometimes I wish EA UFC wasn't even on any sort of competitive scene tbh, cuz some of these guys are annoying as hell. They don't really care about how true to the sport the game is. It's only about winning for them.

Thank you.

One of the reasons why things move so slow on the sim side is because they are more vocal. Its not the only reason. Not at all but it does play a role.

[Kingslayer04]

Re: Circling Out --- Sprint Option For UFC 4

Thank you.

One of the reasons why things move so slow on the sim side is because they are more vocal. Its not the only reason. Not at all but it does play a role.

Are we realism guys that quiet? We've been talking about lots of things in the way of realism for a really long time and pretty constantly too. I've felt like I'm repeating myself a number of times now. How much more vocal can we get?