Transition based submissions

[DCowboys22]

Re: Transition based submissions

I’d be surprised if they didn’t touch the submission system. Whether they go full on TBS I don’t know, but the sub game and the clinch need the most attention. It just seems next in line in the progression of the game.

If they can add:

-TBS Submissions

-A combination of pre-blocking transitions and reactionary transition blocks. A combination of Undisputed and EA

-A more natural, free-flowing clinch game. They need to make it more fluid going in and out of clinches, while also allowing more movement and striking fluidity within the clinch.

-Head movement/Sways on the ground

-Improved Ground strikes. From top and bottom. Most speed, more impact from strikes.

-Chain wrestling for takedowns, switching from double to single legs

[SHADOW_UFCMMA]

Re: Transition based submissions

I’d be surprised if they didn’t touch the submission system. Whether they go full on TBS I don’t know, but the sub game and the clinch need the most attention. It just seems next in line in the progression of the game.

If they can add:

-TBS Submissions

-A combination of pre-blocking transitions and reactionary transition blocks. A combination of Undisputed and EA

-A more natural, free-flowing clinch game. They need to make it more fluid going in and out of clinches, while also allowing more movement and striking fluidity within the clinch.

-Head movement/Sways on the ground

-Improved Ground strikes. From top and bottom. Most speed, more impact from strikes.

-Chain wrestling for takedowns, switching from double to single legs

agreed. I hope they also add ( i don't even know what to call it) the tie up of legs on the cage to ground and pound like what khabib did to Edson barboza. also wrist control to ground and pound. like what khabib did to Michael Johnson.

https://images.app.goo.gl/oJAfUQFD4UthjrHH8

and

for the wrist control

[johnmangala]

Re: Transition based submissions

agreed. I hope they also add ( i don't even know what to call it) the tie up of legs on the cage to ground and pound like what khabib did to Edson barboza. also wrist control to ground and pound. like what khabib did to Michael Johnson.

https://images.app.goo.gl/oJAfUQFD4UthjrHH8

and

for the wrist control

Yeah it’s called a leg lace. That would be an interesting position to have in the game for sure. At least as a signature position for Khabib.

[SHADOW_UFCMMA]

Re: Transition based submissions

Yeah it’s called a leg lace. That would be an interesting position to have in the game for sure. At least as a signature position for Khabib.

wow leg lace that's interesting thanks for telling me. im surprised i did not know what it was called because no one really talks about it and that's weird to me because khabib uses it a lot and hes a star.also now thinking i cant believe i forgot to also mention this tie up. go too 1:01 of this video.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F3p-1K_Kf2Y

[johnmangala]

Re: Transition based submissions

wow leg lace that's interesting thanks for telling me. im surprised i did not know what it was called because no one really talks about it and that's weird to me because khabib uses it a lot and hes a star.also now thinking i cant believe i forgot to also mention this tie up. go too 1:01 of this video.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F3p-1K_Kf2Y

It is talked about you probably just didn't notice as you didn't know the name so you didn't make the connection.


Here's a video on it.

If we can rock people on the ground or a cage seated position a leg lace position for Khabib would be deadly. I'd definitely use him more if we got some form of TBS too.

[SHADOW_UFCMMA]

Re: Transition based submissions

It is talked about you probably just didn't notice as you didn't know the name so you didn't make the connection.


Here's a video on it.

If we can rock people on the ground or a cage seated position a leg lace position for Khabib would be deadly. I'd definitely use him more if we got some form of TBS too.

yes same here, TBS? sorry but what does that mean?

[TheUFCVeteran]

Re: Transition based submissions

yes same here, TBS? sorry but what does that mean?

Transition Based Submissions ^_^

[DCowboys22]

Re: Transition based submissions

also wrist control to ground and pound. like what khabib did to Michael Johnson.

https://images.app.goo.gl/oJAfUQFD4UthjrHH8

and

for the wrist control

If they implement a proper Transition Based Sub system, then I think Wrist control with Ground n Pound would become a great, added benefit from the system that many people might not realize yet.

If the TBS system makes getting wrist control the 1st transition for a Limb Submission, while also allowing the Attacker & Defender to strike throughout the progression of the submission. Well then, naturally we would have this. And it would be awesome.

This just further illustrates why the TBS system is the ultimate option. It opens up endless layers of strategy. Many people use the threat of a submission to open up other attacks or moves, its not always just about getting the tap. You'll see this on every single fight card.

[DCowboys22]

Re: Transition based submissions

Scenario Example:

Imagine you're in top control from half guard, and you hit L2 and Right or Left on the stick for a Minor Transition to attempt a Far Side Kimura. Stage 1 grabs the far side wrist for control. (Audio Queue to alert the casual gamers of a threat- Jon Anik says - "Looks like he's going for a submission here!")

Stage 2, and the 2nd Minor Transition would be bringing your other arm underneath their far-side arm to initiate the final squeeze/rhythmic button mash stage to simulate the torque (See EA MMA Limb Submission battle)(Audio Queue from Anik again)

But what options are available at Stage 1 Wrist Control? It should be 3 options -

Option1:
-Hold Stage 1 by denying the defenders escape transitions and use the other arm to Strike. A key requirement here would be hitting the correct button to strike with the correct arm, if you attempt to strike with the arm holding wrist control, it should release your grip. Similar to striking with the arm a bottom guard player is using to control the head of the top fighter, which releases posture control in UFC 3. The defender should have Ground Sways & Blocks as options to defend strikes. A successful strike block grants a grapple advantage, a Successful sway grants a larger advantage. Landing strikes from this position grants the attacker a grapple advantage. To escape wrist control, a simple minor transition toward the wrist being controller would release it. More advanced escapes should be allowed as well.

Option 2:
-Advance to Stage 2 of the Sub by L2 & Minor Transitioning again- As I've said before, the type & Difficulty of the submission being attempted should dictate how many stages/transitions are required to get to the final stage. The defender would deny this by matching the direction of the stage 2 submission transition.

Option 3:
-Use the wrist control to advance your grappling position. Instead of an L2 submission transition, you simply perform a standard grappling transition here. In this scenario, depending on the direction you want to go, you either move to Side Control or Full Mount. The defender would deny this just like any other attempt to advance from Half Guard, by matching the direction.

This system is layered with so many different options for the user. It creates a deeper chess match on the ground, and it creates a Skill gap for high level players. Simple enough for casuals to understand, but deep enough to where the truly skilled grapplers are recognized.

[DCowboys22]

Re: Transition based submissions

As I think through the TBS system. I'm a bit torn on the Final Stage requirements to get a tap out.

Right now I seem to think a Button Mash system is best, similar to EA MMA's system that requires a balance of presses and managing stamina. But I'm open to hearing other options on finishing a sub as part of a TBS system.

I think, for a Rhythmic button mash, the amount of "squeeze/effort" needed to finish a sub should vary depending on all of these factors:

-Stamina of attacker versus stamina of defender
-Health of attacker versus health of defender (Maybe even specific to limb health(a damaged leg from multiple rounds of leg kicks should be easier to leg lock)
-Grappling Ratings of Attacker versus Defender
-and Finally, the difficulty of the submission attempt

If we look back at EA MMA, it was a very simple system. Press a Submission Button from different positions, and enter directly into the mashing stage. So obviously, the mashing aspect is going to be more drawn out as its the only part of the submission battle.

With the TBS system I am imagining, the sub battle begins at the Stage 1 transition, then 2, then 3. Etc, depending on the sub being attempted. So the final Mash stage really should be shorter than EA MMA's by comparison because the attacker will need to do more to earn that stage.

In some instances, the final mash stage should almost be a done deal for the attacker. If you as a defender find yourself there, it should feel like a desperate moment.

Attempting a basic 2 Stage ArmBar from Guard, with the defender at full stamina, this will be a longer Mash stage to complete a tap, or very short if the defender does a good job quickly pressing out.

But Attempting a 3 or 4 Stage Submission, with a gassed out defender, if you get to that final stage, it should be a few seconds of smart button presses to squeeze em out.

Does anyone know where other, TBS ideas have been outlined? I'm curious know what people are suggesting for a final tap-out stage and how exactly it would work. Thanks!

[SMOKEZERO]

Re: Transition based submissions

@DCowboys22 - Less than 5% of players hit a submission online. Do you really think EA is going full tilt submission overhaul next game? I’d guess there are many other aspects deserving of attention before a total submission rework is done based on analytics alone. I’m not saying it’s something that shouldn’t be addressed, just don’t put all your hopes in a deeper, more intricate, theoretical TBS system, that 95% of the player base will choose to avoid strictly off majority play style alone. - “Let’s bang. Let me up bruh.”


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[johnmangala]

Re: Transition based submissions

Does anyone know where other, TBS ideas have been outlined? I'm curious know what people are suggesting for a final tap-out stage and how exactly it would work. Thanks!

Reddit would be the best place to check imo.

@DCowboys22 - Less than 5% of players hit a submission online. Do you really think EA is going full tilt submission overhaul next game? I’d guess there are many other aspects deserving of attention before a total submission rework is done based on analytics alone. I’m not saying it’s something that shouldn’t be addressed, just don’t put all your hopes in a deeper, more intricate, theoretical TBS system, that 95% of the player base will choose to avoid strictly off majority play style alone. - “Let’s bang. Let me up bruh.”


Sent from my iPhone using Operation Sports

The subs and clinch are the least updated parts of the game. For consistentcy alone there will be some sort of update. Stand up fans didn't stop EA from making grappling the focus of UFC 2.

[SMOKEZERO]

Re: Transition based submissions

The subs and clinch are the least updated parts of the game. For consistentcy alone there will be some sort of update. Stand up fans didn't stop EA from making grappling the focus of UFC 2.

Pretty sure UFC 2 got a significant striking update as well and the stand up fans loved it. I expect similar for UFC 4. Heck, I expect they will add or improve on every system in the game. As for a complete system rework, what’s more likely... Clinch, Ground, or Subs? I’d say that’s the “rework” priority order right there. If you want to believe the submission game is going TBS or something completely different, right on. I’d personally be surprised to see other aspects not get reworked first.


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[johnmangala]

Re: Transition based submissions

Pretty sure UFC 2 got a significant striking update as well and the stand up fans loved it. I expect similar for UFC 4. Heck, I expect they will add or improve on every system in the game. As for a complete system rework, what’s more likely... Clinch, Ground, or Subs? I’d say that’s the “rework” priority order right there. If you want to believe the submission game is going TBS or something completely different, right on. I’d personally be surprised to see other aspects not get reworked first.


Sent from my iPhone using Operation Sports

Striking was the focus in UFC 3 but we still got new grappling mechanics, I expect no different. Subs and clinch both should receive a modest update. As for priority I think it goes clinch, sub, ground. I want it to go sub, clinch, ground. I dont expect them to go full TBS in UFC 4 based on ZHunters response but TBS like eventually. Based on that I suggested a TBS system that uses the current animations.

[MacGowan]

Re: Transition based submissions

Striking was the focus in UFC 3 but we still got new grappling mechanics

What was the new grappling mechanics? They slightly polished the old ones.