Transition based submissions

[johnmangala]

Re: Transition based submissions

We should have sub cancels to play position over submission. Using subs to gain or maintain position before losing position.

[DCowboys22]

Re: Transition based submissions

We should have sub cancels to play position over submission. Using subs to gain or maintain position before losing position.

Absolutely. Threatening a sub should be a viable option for advancing position. It should be part of a players strategy.

Happens in real life mma all the time. Use a bottom guard kimura to sweep

[johnmangala]

Re: Transition based submissions

Absolutely. Threatening a sub should be a viable option for advancing position. It should be part of a players strategy.

Happens in real life mma all the time. Use a bottom guard kimura to sweep

Right just add a decent stamina tax and it’s balanced too.

[johnmangala]

Re: Transition based submissions

I thought of a way for there to be no sub HUD. Let the camera zoom the deeper you get into a submission.

[johnmangala]

Re: Transition based submissions

Are there any features TBS doesnt address?
Sub cancels, sub chains, mobile grappling, sub striking, stamina, GA, no sub Hud etc all possible with TBS. That's what makes it complete sub gameplay.

Even sub v sub situations are possible- von flue.

If we dont get TBS I hope whatever they do they address most of the above points and get us more variety of subs like Ezeziel, calf slicer, can opener etc.

[johnmangala]

Re: Transition based submissions

I can handle another sub mini game if no HUD. The HUD really takes you out of the game and makes it feel like a separate game. Striking is not like that, even the rest of grappling isnt that. TBS can work without a HUD, but another mini game isnt as immersive. It can be immersive with no HUD so we can feel like we are controlling the action like striking. The animations already respond to our actions just stages at a time. I think we can have no sub HUD if the camera zooms in the deeper we go. Or have the mini game around the edges of the screen.

The camera should zoom in the deeper we go and the animations should actively change.

[johnmangala]

Re: Transition based submissions

I just found out there's a heel hook from top full guard in this game. Only Oleinik has it as far as I know.

This is a perfect move for fighters like Ferguson and Oliveria.

I use single legs into arm triangles, it's a great combo. But double legs are easier to land especially against pressure and its easier to deny from full guard top too. So I hope more fighters have this move.

[johnmangala]

Re: Transition based submissions

Failed subs should burn out your arms. I hope there is arm damage instead of block meter. Would make more sense.

[Jizamurai]

Transition based submissions

Failed subs should burn out your arms. I hope there is arm damage instead of block meter. Would make more sense.

Arm damage and ability to break through the block like Fight Night champions would be amazing for this game.

[Irish0331]

Re: Transition based submissions

Lemme make sure I understand this transition based submission system idea correctly.


Say we're in side control. We hit the submission modifier button and we get "armbar" and "kimura" options. We successfully fill the kimura meter...but instead of going right into a gate/mini game we've just simply transitioned to some wrist control. We can at this point still throw some rabbit punches, let go or even prop ourselves up into side straddle or take the crucifix if we choose...but if we hit the sub modifier again we have a kimura specific transition of something like "lock wrist" and then we transition if we successfully fill the meter...then another kimura specific sub modifier transition after that like "crank" (for lack of a better term) at which point we then fall into a gate/mini/mashing game? And all these step by step transitions are defendable every step of the way?.


I could definitely be down for that but....


There would have to be a happy medium. Not every sub is going to require that step by step transitioning set up in real life. I'm in my early 40's with about 25 years (on and off) experience in grappling (hs wrestling, jits, mma) and the reality is that for every dozen or so subs I commit to/defend (that require muscling/hand fighting/struggling/setting up in a "transition based" manner), there's one or two that quite literally fall right into place where all ya gotta do is squeeze/wrench. I don't wanna have to ALWAYS spend 4 transitions worth of setting up a decent grapplers guillotine attempt in a north-south/sprawl scramble. A lot of time can be burned off the clock doing all that. A 5 gate sub attempt now can burn 30 seconds....that seem slike a lot of time to me now...especially if we'd be working on a transition system that's even remotely close to what i was thinking above.

[johnmangala]

Re: Transition based submissions

Lemme make sure I understand this transition based submission system idea correctly.


Say we're in side control. We hit the submission modifier button and we get "armbar" and "kimura" options. We successfully fill the kimura meter...but instead of going right into a gate/mini game we've just simply transitioned to some wrist control. We can at this point still throw some rabbit punches, let go or even prop ourselves up into side straddle or take the crucifix if we choose...but if we hit the sub modifier again we have a kimura specific transition of something like "lock wrist" and then we transition if we successfully fill the meter...then another kimura specific sub modifier transition after that like "crank" (for lack of a better term) at which point we then fall into a gate/mini/mashing game? And all these step by step transitions are defendable every step of the way?.


I could definitely be down for that but....


There would have to be a happy medium. Not every sub is going to require that step by step transitioning set up in real life. I'm in my early 40's with about 25 years (on and off) experience in grappling (hs wrestling, jits, mma) and the reality is that for every dozen or so subs I commit to/defend (that require muscling/hand fighting/struggling/setting up in a "transition based" manner), there's one or two that quite literally fall right into place where all ya gotta do is squeeze/wrench. I don't wanna have to ALWAYS spend 4 transitions worth of setting up a decent grapplers guillotine attempt in a north-south/sprawl scramble. A lot of time can be burned off the clock doing all that. A 5 gate sub attempt now can burn 30 seconds....that seem slike a lot of time to me now...especially if we'd be working on a transition system that's even remotely close to what i was thinking above.

Basically yeah. The animations for wrist control and what not are generally already in game. So what it could be like is all the submission gates would be converted into positions.

So for your Kimura example maybe postion one is wrist control. Postion 3 could be sit down etc. You could strike from those positions (if arms not tied up), transition into other positions or submissions, or defend transitions for a certain period of time to finish.

As for your concern about quick submissions... there are already one gate submissions depending on context (FTF submissions and 2 gate submissions). So those would remain. Also higher level specialists would have fewer transitions to go through and less time to finish.

[DCowboys22]

Re: Transition based submissions

Right. This system would be great in creating more of a difference between great grapplers and the average grappler.

Guys like Jacare would have less transitions needed to finish an armbar versus someone like Paulo Costa.

Maybe even give Jacare the ability to major transition. And skip from Stage 1 to Stage 3 of a sub. Where as other might not have a major transition to use and be required to complete more transitions to sub.

What really great about this system is the freedom of choice you’d have throughout the sub process. No mini game means you stay within the overall scheme of the game, but you can also decide to go for the next sub transition, or bail out and transition to an improved position.

Like using a Kimura to gain Mount. Grab the wrist to get into Stage 1, then instead of going to stage 2, perform a standard transition to move to Mount. It’s another layer of strategy and another path to use on the ground.

Or, maintain wrist control and strike to punish. Think about a Bottom guard armbar attempt, but using hammer fists to strike the top player and soften em up for the next transition.


Things like that open up

[rabbitfistssaipailo]

Re: Transition based submissions

This could work I like this ...

Sent from my Infinix X604 using Operation Sports mobile app

[Irish0331]

Re: Transition based submissions

Right. This system would be great in creating more of a difference between great grapplers and the average grappler.

Guys like Jacare would have less transitions needed to finish an armbar versus someone like Paulo Costa.

Maybe even give Jacare the ability to major transition. And skip from Stage 1 to Stage 3 of a sub. Where as other might not have a major transition to use and be required to complete more transitions to sub.

What really great about this system is the freedom of choice you’d have throughout the sub process. No mini game means you stay within the overall scheme of the game, but you can also decide to go for the next sub transition, or bail out and transition to an improved position.

Like using a Kimura to gain Mount. Grab the wrist to get into Stage 1, then instead of going to stage 2, perform a standard transition to move to Mount. It’s another layer of strategy and another path to use on the ground.

Or, maintain wrist control and strike to punish. Think about a Bottom guard armbar attempt, but using hammer fists to strike the top player and soften em up for the next transition.


Things like that open up

Thanks for the reply. Thanks johnmangala too. The way you guys are describing it would be cool. Trying to make an MMA game must be bananas. I think EA could pull off what you're saying though.

[DCowboys22]

Re: Transition based submissions

Thanks for the reply. Thanks johnmangala too. The way you guys are describing it would be cool. Trying to make an MMA game must be bananas. I think EA could pull off what you're saying though.

I’m sure it’s easier said than done, but the system appears to be there for this.

Just tie the sub animations to the transition controls. Add in unique striking animations from thee positions and add in new standard transitions out of these positions.

The more I think about, it’s probably a massive project.

BUT, it’s hands down, the best possible submission system that can be implemented.