Transition based submissions

[johnmangala]

Re: Transition based submissions

Sure, but would you really want to hold the stick in various directions 4 more times, just like position passing, to sink in a rnc? No matter how you feel about the submission mini game, that’s closer to the struggle of actually passing guard/half guard than the hold the stick in the direction system. I have zero confidence in a hudless system to deliver strategy or precision.


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Yeah it’d be more fun than staring at the gates, breaking immersion with the giant overlay.

I think the gate mechanism can be retooled to be HUDless like I suggested earlier. You just feel a rumble when you match their transition direction.

[SMOKEZERO]

Re: Transition based submissions

Yeah it’d be more fun than staring at the gates, breaking immersion with the giant overlay.



I think the gate mechanism can be retooled to be HUDless like I suggested earlier. You just feel a rumble when you match their transition direction.

The rumble feature itself, is best to support the onscreen action, not be the vehicle driving the gameplay mechanic. The whole, “you could close your eyes and defend a submission” approach is a risky undertaking.


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[johnmangala]

Re: Transition based submissions

The rumble feature itself, is best to support the onscreen action, not be the vehicle driving the gameplay mechanic. The whole, “you could close your eyes and defend a submission” approach is a risky undertaking.


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You’d still get your HUD action with my idea if you wanted. The grip/sub meter replaces the giant overlay. It just be in the top corner along with the other meters. Only difference is when you play without your HUD you can still gauge yourself with the rumble.

[DCowboys22]

Re: Transition based submissions

Sure, but would you really want to hold the stick in various directions 4 more times, just like position passing, to sink in a rnc? No matter how you feel about the submission mini game, that’s closer to the struggle of actually passing guard/half guard than the hold the stick in the direction system. I have zero confidence in a hudless system to deliver strategy or precision.


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Short answer: Yes.

Long Answer: Maybe not 4 transitions for a RNC, but 2, followed by a squeeze mechanic such as EA MMA’s rhythmic button mash.

Especially in comparison to a giant overlay. While that system might simulate the idea of trying to wriggle out of chokes, it’s not at all fun or satisfying. And the elephant in the room - it completely removes you from the fight in every way. Visual, controller input, etc. it’s a complete random left turn away from the game.

Think about the recent Alexei Oleinik fight this weekend. He had a scarf-hold choke on Maurice Greene. He had to smartly squeeze and apply pressure, he had to decide “do I go all out for the sub here or play it safe so I don’t blow my arms out?”

With a decent button mash squeeze “end stage” of the transition system, that becomes a real decision in the game. And to get to that end stage, it took real transition work.

[johnmangala]

Re: Transition based submissions

Short answer: Yes.

Long Answer: Maybe not 4 transitions for a RNC, but 2, followed by a squeeze mechanic such as EA MMA’s rhythmic button mash.

Especially in comparison to a giant overlay. While that system might simulate the idea of trying to wriggle out of chokes, it’s not at all fun or satisfying. And the elephant in the room - it completely removes you from the fight in every way. Visual, controller input, etc. it’s a complete random left turn away from the game.

Think about the recent Alexei Oleinik fight this weekend. He had a scarf-hold choke on Maurice Greene. He had to smartly squeeze and apply pressure, he had to decide “do I go all out for the sub here or play it safe so I don’t blow my arms out?”

With a decent button mash squeeze “end stage” of the transition system, that becomes a real decision in the game. And to get to that end stage, it took real transition work.

I think if the devs use the current sub animations we could get a version of TBS for UFC 4. I doubt we’ll get a full TBS for UFC 4 but maybe we still get something along those lines... HUDless subs.

The only new animations would be the striking in and out of subs, where the rhythmic button mashing would fit in appropriately. I think the actual transitioning should remain like the transitions we have now on the Joystick -> hold a direction until it fills. Only difference is you block transitions by matching their direction.. shortened recovery frames for denying transitions.

Minor transition: Hold a direction until filled, rumble lets you know if you hit the spot to block the transition. Safer but slowly fills or depletes the grip meter.
Major transition: Swoops while the opponent tries to minor transition and you fill/deplete the grip meter. Mistime it and you lose the same amount which would be a lot.

[SHADOW_UFCMMA]

Re: Transition based submissions

I think if the devs use the current sub animations we could get a version of TBS for UFC 4. I doubt we’ll get a full TBS for UFC 4 but maybe we still get something along those lines... HUDless subs.

The only new animations would be the striking in and out of subs, where the rhythmic button mashing would fit in appropriately. I think the actual transitioning should remain like the transitions we have now on the Joystick -> hold a direction until it fills. Only difference is you block transitions by matching their direction.. shortened recovery frames for denying transitions.

Minor transition: Hold a direction until filled, rumble lets you know if you hit the spot to block the transition. Safer but slowly fills or depletes the grip meter.
Major transition: Swoops while the opponent tries to minor transition and you fill/deplete the grip meter. Mistime it and you lose the same amount which would be a lot.

Nooooo please no more fill in transitions. Dont get me wrong your idea is good, but i think i will throw up if i see ufc 4 has fill in transitions. Fill in transitions feel like a mini game in themeselvs like the sumbissions right now.

[johnmangala]

Re: Transition based submissions

Nooooo please no more fill in transitions. Dont get me wrong your idea is good, but i think i will throw up if i see ufc 4 has fill in transitions. Fill in transitions feel like a mini game in themeselvs like the sumbissions right now.

That’s fine. I am okay if it weren’t filling a meter for transitions but rather straight direction. I was just referring to a TBS system that uses the current sub And transition animations.

[SHADOW_UFCMMA]

Re: Transition based submissions

That’s fine. I am okay if it weren’t filling a meter for transitions but rather straight direction. I was just referring to a TBS system that uses the current sub And transition animations.

Yes. As long as they dont have fill in transitions like in ufc 1 too ufc 3. Just looking at it makes me cringe. All i have to say is https://youtu.be/31g0YE61PLQ
To the fill in transitions like they did in the previous ea ufc games.

[TheUFCVeteran]

Re: Transition based submissions

Yes. As long as they dont have fill in transitions like in ufc 1 too ufc 3. Just looking at it makes me cringe. All i have to say is https://youtu.be/31g0YE61PLQ
To the fill in transitions like they did in the previous ea ufc games.

I despise UFC 1 but the one good thing EA could take it from it is the grappling controls. They were sort of like UD3's but cut in half (only quarter circles IIRC). Add in UD3 style fakes and shorter denial windows and that's a fun grappling system right there. As long as the L defence is fixed...

[SHADOW_UFCMMA]

Re: Transition based submissions

I despise UFC 1 but the one good thing EA could take it from it is the grappling controls. They were sort of like UD3's but cut in half (only quarter circles IIRC). Add in UD3 style fakes and shorter denial windows and that's a fun grappling system right there. As long as the L defence is fixed...

oh yea ufc 1 did not have that transition fill in like ufc 2 and ufc 3 i completely forgot. i like what you saying. man i hope they don't have fill in transitions in ufc 4. i had a dream, or should i say nightmare that they still had fill in transition mini game for ufc 4 i hope that's not true.

[DCowboys22]

Re: Transition based submissions

I think if the devs use the current sub animations we could get a version of TBS for UFC 4. I doubt we’ll get a full TBS for UFC 4 but maybe we still get something along those lines... HUDless subs.

The only new animations would be the striking in and out of subs, where the rhythmic button mashing would fit in appropriately. I think the actual transitioning should remain like the transitions we have now on the Joystick -> hold a direction until it fills. Only difference is you block transitions by matching their direction.. shortened recovery frames for denying transitions.

Minor transition: Hold a direction until filled, rumble lets you know if you hit the spot to block the transition. Safer but slowly fills or depletes the grip meter.
Major transition: Swoops while the opponent tries to minor transition and you fill/deplete the grip meter. Mistime it and you lose the same amount which would be a lot.

I’m not sure I understand what you mean with the grip meter. Can you explain how you would start and finish a sub in your system?

[johnmangala]

Re: Transition based submissions

I’m not sure I understand what you mean with the grip meter. Can you explain how you would start and finish a sub in your system?

Sure, it’s just another meter in the top corner like the block meter etc. It could be called sub meter too. It represents your position on the animation chain of transitions. The meter gauges how the transitions advance or escape the submission.

The subs start like how they start now in game just transition into one when in the right position. The difference is instead of the giant overlay mini game we just focus on the animations and based on how deep you are in the the current animations you either advance or escape the sub by doing minor or major transitions.

When you do a transition in a sub you get closer or further to the end stage animation of the finish. Think of the current animations as being in a tug of war. Both sides try to transition and the ones that get through inch you along the grip meter.

- The key is that when you turn off the HUD the grip meter disappears like the other meters. So you can actually see what’s going on with the sub animations.

This is for UFC 4 based reworking on the current animations and including strikes in and out of subs which would be fun for many. Hopefully we could get it where you transition by individual steps in a more nuanced sub system that is TBS eventually if not for UFC 4.

[DCowboys22]

Re: Transition based submissions

I see, so as the sub attacker, would I also be able to deny the defenders transitions as they attempt to escape?

[johnmangala]

Re: Transition based submissions

I see, so as the sub attacker, would I also be able to deny the defenders transitions as they attempt to escape?

Yup by blocking their direction. You would feel a rumble when you match their direction which causes them to have to reposition and try another direction.

[johnmangala]

Re: Transition based submissions

Hold position is another important factor. It should be like UD3 where we block transitions instead of denying. Shorten the recovery frames so we can chain transitions while blocked.