How was yukes able to please both hardcores and casuals but only casuals matter in ea

[aholbert32]

Re: How was yukes able to please both hardcores and casuals but only casuals matter i

Would you like some unsolicited advice?

I too was gifted the game. My fiance pre-ordered it for our anniversary in September. She was super proud of herself because without me asking she had been keeping an eye on alerts for the game because she knew I wanted it. When she got the alert for the release date she ordered the game through the PS Store.

After the trial, I told her I'd rather she put that money towards Madden. I called Sony they refunded my money and I purchased Madden.

It can be done. Just throwing that out there for all the people who were given a crappy gift this year.

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This.

This has nothing to do with the game. If you have a significant other or family member who bought you this game after you swore you werent going to buy it....just dont open it. They will understand. I've done it in the past with my wife.

Tell your wife, husband, brother, sister, cousin or friend...that you liked the series but this version sucks so you are going to return it for another game. Its basic communication with your significant other.

[ryangil23]

Re: How was yukes able to please both hardcores and casuals but only casuals matter i

To use that example, the flip side is to continue to give the team your money each year while you sit in the stands with a bag over your head complaining about the team.

Also, the owner of the team traded away many of your team's best players and specifically said that they dont care if you (and fans like you) come to the game because they are marketing season tickets to non football fans.

Basically I don’t think there are enough people who could make a big enough dent as it is. The game would have to get considerably worse to a point that a lot more people who are content with it now would stop buying.

[Evil97]

Re: How was yukes able to please both hardcores and casuals but only casuals matter i

All I know is you all got some cool *** wives. Mine would throw it in the trash if it wasn't downloaded. Her and aholbert would make a good team.

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[aholbert32]

Re: How was yukes able to please both hardcores and casuals but only casuals matter i

Basically I don’t think there are enough people who could make a big enough dent as it is. The game would have to get considerably worse to a point that a lot more people who are content with it now would stop buying.

Maybe but you know what? Nobody ever tries it.

Its the case with every EA game here. You go into all these forums. You will find the same complaints. People are aware of the issues and still buy the game at full price.

My question is why should EA listen to anyone here?

I'm not being a dick. This is a serious question. We have shown that no matter what people here will buy the game at full price.

-You have GCs and devs telling you that OSers are the the target audience.

-You have EA removing features and game mechanics that people here love simply to cater to another audience.

- You have 6 yrs of wishlists and requests and EA seems more focused on creating wolf masks than adding what people here want.

Connecting it back to the subject of this topic....I dont believe you guys anymore.

I dont believe that if Yukes creates a unlicensed game or one with Bellator and One fighters that you guys wont buy the next EA UFC game even if the next one is even more geared towards casual fans. Be clear, EA is going to renew this license and it will be exclusive.

The license means too much to you guys and no matter what EA releases (within reason) most people here will buy the game at full price.

[TheUFCVeteran]

Re: How was yukes able to please both hardcores and casuals but only casuals matter i

I dont believe that if Yukes creates a unlicensed game or one with Bellator and One fighters that you guys wont buy the next EA UFC game even if the next one is even more geared towards casual fans. Be clear, EA is going to renew this license and it will be exclusive.

The license means too much to you guys and no matter what EA releases (within reason) most people here will buy the game at full price.

Just wanna chime in here. I promise you that I will never play an EA UFC game again. Literally the only reason I play it is because it has people who play online. I play UD3 for everything else.

If Yuke's ever make another MMA game and it's as good or better than UD3, I'll only be playing that. The UFC license would be great, but I want a game that suits what I like first and foremost. I don't care if the Yuke's game is Bellator, ONE, or RIZIN, it doesn't matter to me, as long as it's good.

I've learned from UFC 3 and 4. Clearly EA's design decisions don't cater to me, and while I wish they would at least give us options, it is what it is. I just wish we had an alternative which was more sim based.

[TheRizzzle]

Re: How was yukes able to please both hardcores and casuals but only casuals matter i

Basically I don’t think there are enough people who could make a big enough dent as it is. The game would have to get considerably worse to a point that a lot more people who are content with it now would stop buying.

But then the point is...I dont care. I have better things to do with my time. If I instead keep doing the thing I keep saying I dont like...why should anyone, based on my actions, believe it's as bad as I say it is?

My words say I don't enjoy it and it's not good enough. My dollars and attention say otherwise.

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[ryangil23]

Re: How was yukes able to please both hardcores and casuals but only casuals matter i

But then the point is...I dont care. I have better things to do with my time. If I instead keep doing the thing I keep saying I dont like...why should anyone, based on my actions, believe it's as bad as I say it is?

My words say I don't enjoy it and it's not good enough. My dollars and attention say otherwise.

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It depends. If you like some parts of the game and don’t like others then you’d just be punishing yourself by not buying because what you’re doing isn’t going to make any difference anyway.

[aholbert32]

Re: How was yukes able to please both hardcores and casuals but only casuals matter i

It depends. If you like some parts of the game and don’t like others then you’d just be punishing yourself by not buying because what you’re doing isn’t going to make any difference anyway.

I'm fine with that. I'm fine with people who look at this game and say "I hate that EA is catering to casual fans and I hate a ton of their decisions but overall I'm OK with the game so I bought it." Thats reasonable.

The problem is thats not what happens here. People listed their must haves or they wont buy the game and EA gave them hardly any of them. People were VERY loud about not buying the game if they game didnt have X feature or Y mode...and none of them are in the game.

EA focused on casual fans for two reasons. 1) There are way more of them than hardcore fans and 2) Casual fans dont buy games that arent catered to them. I wish more hardcore fans would force EA to cater to them by withholding their money.

[ryangil23]

Re: How was yukes able to please both hardcores and casuals but only casuals matter i

Maybe but you know what? Nobody ever tries it.

Its the case with every EA game here. You go into all these forums. You will find the same complaints. People are aware of the issues and still buy the game at full price.

My question is why should EA listen to anyone here?

I'm not being a dick. This is a serious question. We have shown that no matter what people here will buy the game at full price.

-You have GCs and devs telling you that OSers are the the target audience.

-You have EA removing features and game mechanics that people here love simply to cater to another audience.

- You have 6 yrs of wishlists and requests and EA seems more focused on creating wolf masks than adding what people here want.

Connecting it back to the subject of this topic....I dont believe you guys anymore.

I dont believe that if Yukes creates a unlicensed game or one with Bellator and One fighters that you guys wont buy the next EA UFC game even if the next one is even more geared towards casual fans. Be clear, EA is going to renew this license and it will be exclusive.

The license means too much to you guys and no matter what EA releases (within reason) most people here will buy the game at full price.

On the topic of the thread, I’m not sure he’s talking about Yukes doing a non UFC MMA game. I took it as that he’s asking why EA focus on casuals when Yukes didn’t (in his mind at least, I don’t know because I don’t remember too much of the Yukes games).

On people buying or not buying the game, I think people just have to accept it for what it is. There are too many people who seem happy enough with it. If there are some parts of the game you like then you might a well try and make the best of it. Maybe some mechanics will be tuned or patched but that’ll be it. Take or leave it but it’s not changing in general. If you don’t buy it then everyone will just move on without you.

I wish more hardcore fans would force EA to cater to them by withholding their money.

Same but realistically it’ll never happen

[GameplayDevUFC]

Re: How was yukes able to please both hardcores and casuals but only casuals matter i

I've learned from UFC 3 and 4. Clearly EA's design decisions don't cater to me, and while I wish they would at least give us options, it is what it is. I just wish we had an alternative which was more sim based.

One of my fondest memories of UFC 3 launch was listening to you on stream gushing about how much you loved the changes to UFC 3 during the beta.

I think it's unfair to say that we haven't at least catered to your wishes at least a little bit over the course of those two games.

If you want to be 100% the target that's probably never going to happen.

But to say you got nothing out of UFC 3 is very dishonest. I heard it from your own mouth.

[GameplayDevUFC]

Re: How was yukes able to please both hardcores and casuals but only casuals matter i

Here's another theory for why EA target's the casual audience.

The argument for targeting the hard core, who will buy the game anyway, is that if they like it they'll promote it to their friends who are casuals.

But when we make arguably the best standup striking system in any combat sport game ever, that is geared 100% towards the hard core audience what happens? You **** all over it anyway.

So why cater to you anymore?

[ryangil23]

Re: How was yukes able to please both hardcores and casuals but only casuals matter i

Here's another theory for why EA target's the casual audience.

The argument for targeting the hard core, who will buy the game anyway, is that if they like it they'll promote it to their friends who are casuals.

But when we make arguably the best standup striking system in any combat sport game ever, that is geared 100% towards the hard core audience what happens? You **** all over it anyway.

So why cater to you anymore?

Interesting that the stand up is 100% geared towards hardcores and the casuals still mostly seem to enjoy that and hate grappling.

[TheUFCVeteran]

Re: How was yukes able to please both hardcores and casuals but only casuals matter i

One of my fondest memories of UFC 3 launch was listening to you on stream gushing about how much you loved the changes to UFC 3 during the beta.

I think it's unfair to say that we haven't at least catered to your wishes at least a little bit over the course of those two games.

If you want to be 100% the target that's probably never going to happen.

But to say you got nothing out of UFC 3 is very dishonest. I heard it from your own mouth.

First off, thank you, I remember you mentioning my beta stream on Twitter. Much love to you as a person and as a dev, even though our visions don't line up exactly. So, I didn't say I didn't get anything out of it. Let me explain it a little.

I was absolutely in love with how new it all was. It felt different, and awesome at first. But then, as time went on, patches (which were for the better) and the meta evolved - it all created a game, which, I started to see just wasn't all that realistic FOR ME. Also, the game is such a huge upgrade over UFC 2 that I was happy about that, too.

I remember saying, "Power! Proper power", or something very similar. I think part of it was that, compared to UFC 2, there WAS much more single shot power - but as time had gone on, and the honeymoon period wore off, issues started becoming apparent for me.

If you watch one of my last UFC 3 streams and compared it to the beta, you can see how much my opinion/excitement about the game shifted.

When I say I've learned from UFC 3 and 4, I mean mid-way to the end of 3, I could clearly see that how you guys developed the game wasn't for me. I had to understand how the striking and damage was before I could understand how it wasn't for me, so to speak.

You guys made HUGE strides from UFC 1 to UFC 4 in the realism department, but it also came with a more competitive focused system, which I wouldn't mind so much if there were sim mode options or online Quick Match sliders for my friends and I.

It's not just the lack of realism (for me) that I'm not a fan of, but the game still isn't a true 60 fps (I admit, I was convinced UFC 4 was at first, minor lunges seemed too responsive not to be, but perhaps that was because UFC 3 was pretty unresponsive) and the game just doesn't control or feel as good in the hands as Undisputed 3 for me.

For the longest time, I hoped you guys would add more sim elements (damage, higher stamina consumption) and in a way, I still do, but I understand now that it's just not your vision/the direction you want to go in. That's fine, just wish we had a modern competitor that was more like Undisputed 3.

Also, I know this a small thing but I don't know if you remember me being vocal about it: I wanted a replay editor/instant replay/Rockstar Editor type system for the longest time. I still go put on a playlist of UFC 2 simulation videos now and again, I love them; the music, commentary and shots used all come together to create something awesome. I wanted, and still do want to make my own simulation videos, or use it for a league promo - or just a highlight video.

I know it might not be very popular or EA have a limited budget, or it's not worth the time, etc, but I would like a little more player choice in these games, and as a sim fan, a full event mode with authentic presentation (this goes for the entire game, there are numerous errors that have been there since UFC 3, and new ones in UFC 4).

Honestly, I would play UFC 4 so much more if there was 1: Many more signature moves and animations, 2: Full sliders with sliders for individual limb power, 3: Custom rosters with the ability to adjust stats, moves, download them and use them in custom matches for both players and 4: Way, way better AI. EA UFC's AI has the issue of reacting to the input, rather than the action, which is much more like Undisputed 3's AI. UD3's AI would have different counters for the same strike depending on the fighter, sometimes it wasn't perfect, and they would often react to the action, meaning what they "see" rather what they "know" I'm going to throw.

They obviously react to inputs, but I mean in terms of choosing the perfect counter every time. UD3's AI didn't do that. It just felt much more realistic. Not to mention, on Ultimate, tricky to fight, even for an experienced player, while still keeping a lot of fighter authenticity.

I admit, they can be cheesed with strike cancels, but at least they react to them. I have no doubt that AI adjustments could've been made to account for strike cancels being their weakness, perhaps sometimes they don't throw the same strike to the same feint all the time and change it up, throw something different or simply bite less if you don't keep them guessing with actual strikes. It has weaknesses, but overall, it is so much more fun than fighting EA UFC's AI which borders on superhuman on Legendary, but not in a fun way. Probably because one well timed punch does nothing unless they're in a vulnerable state, just like UFC 1/2/3. A fresh Conor's left hand takes off 1/8 of a fresh Barboza's head health. That is absurd, and their health regenerates way too quickly.

Again, if that was only in ranked, I wouldn't mind as long as there was a sim mode where Conor's left hand truly felt like the touch of death. As long as defensive mechanics were more responsive, made reactive rather than predictive and more options added, it would be fairly balanced, I'd say. Along with UD3 sim stamina drain (best stamina system in an MMA game, and I personally don't think there's much of a debate to be had about it, but I'm happy to hear one - not trying to come across as arrogant, not at all, just that I strongly believe that there isn't a better stamina system around).

One last point. UD3 accomodated everyone. There was Default stamina, an arcade experience, Simulation stamina, for guys like me and other like-minded folk, and you could pair that with either Equalised Stats or a Competition Mode which removed all random elements from the game (this is something I think EA could rename the current system to, and expand on it with a sim and arcade mode for offline and online Quick Match.

Anyway, I know that was long post but I often just start writing and don't stop when it comes to things like this (especially when Undisputed 3 is involved), haha.

EDIT: Just saw this your next post. Lemme chime in.

Here's another theory for why EA target's the casual audience.

The argument for targeting the hard core, who will buy the game anyway, is that if they like it they'll promote it to their friends who are casuals.

But when we make arguably the best standup striking system in any combat sport game ever, that is geared 100% towards the hard core audience what happens? You **** all over it anyway.

So why cater to you anymore?

You know I'm a super hardcore fan. You know I'm all about realism. Having said that, I have always disagreed with this statement. I would rank it as the second best for sure, but for a multidude of reasons, most of them listed above, it just doesn't compare to Undisputed 3.

I don't think you can say it's the best when, as I said, a fresh Conor's left hand takes off 1/8 of a fresh Barboza's head health, people can throw 300 strikes a fight and single shots are basically discouraged with the reliance on combos - guys like Machida, Silva or Conor (the former two especially) simply aren't represented very well at all. You can't snipe people with them, the power just isn't there, and it doesn't work at a high level (I firmly believe the highest level of competition in an MMA game should be realism and who can use their fighter as authentically as possible).

To add on to that, guys like Holloway or Joanna have way too much power. Plus, there just aren't enough animations, strikes (power hooks and straights, more strikes in general) or signature animations. Where's JDS' signature straight, or Machida's? Lyoto's question mark kick? Aldo's leg kicks? I could go on. You see what I'm getting at?

[MixedMetalArts]

Re: How was yukes able to please both hardcores and casuals but only casuals matter i

Tbh I'm surprised GDP is still here defending the product, would have thought he'd be fed up with our BS long ago.
Respect

[MixedMetalArts]

Re: How was yukes able to please both hardcores and casuals but only casuals matter i

First
I don't think you can say it's the best when, as I said, a fresh Conor's left hand takes off 1/8 of a fresh Barboza's head health and people can throw 300 strikes a fight - and single shots are basically discouraged with the reliance on combos - guys like Machida, Silva or Conor (the former two especially) simply aren't represented very well at all. You can't snipe people with them, the power just isn't there, and it doesn't work at a high level (I firmly believe the highest level of competition in an MMA game should be realism and who can use their fighter as authentically as possible).

Agree with this wholeheartedly. Fight Night is a perfect example actually. I love sniping, and in fight night it was both effective and extremely enjoyable. Manage distance, use my head MOOOOMENT, counter and get those flash knockdowns. Absolutely loved it. Stamina was amazing back then also, if you worked the body and made the opponent miss you could have them gassed by the 4th. I actually remember being extremely disgruntled that you couldn't get their stamina below 40% or whatever it was in FN Champion, but compared to current system it seems perfect.
Btw, I was still playing FNC once a fortnight until I gave my ps3 to a friend sometime shortly after Xmas.